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NT and ASD

harrietjansson

Well-Known Member
I hear a lot about how people with NT and ASD are different from eachother.
Does NT mean good at social situations and ASD mean bad at social situations?
 
NT is Neurotypical and ASD is Autism Spectrum Disorder. NTs can be socially awkward, but in general socialize with greater ease. ASD covers a very wide spectrum and it is dangerous to attempt to categorize anyone, but for the most part those of us on the spectrum sometimes have difficulty with social interaction.

You can look at the difference as seeing and interpreting reality through a different lens.
 
NT is Neurotypical and ASD is Autism Spectrum Disorder. NTs can be socially awkward, but in general socialize with greater ease. ASD covers a very wide spectrum and it is dangerous to attempt to categorize anyone, but for the most part those of us on the spectrum sometimes have difficulty with social interaction.

You can look at the difference as seeing and interpreting reality through a different lens.
that's the issue I have with NT vs ASD. I hear a lot of NT people talking about how social situations and communicating are difficult for them. Sometimes even ASD people are better at social situations and communication than the NT people. In this case I would say that perfect practice is important.
Too many NT people go by talent. This can be true for ASD people as well. We should not trust talent too much. We need training.
This is why we can say that a person with NT can be difficult with a specific social situation that a person with ASD find a lot easier.
NT vs ASD is not as easy as one would think, right.
There are too many stereotypes. I have been told by people with ASD that we find it difficult to be on a stage in front of people because of our ASD issues. In fact more people with NT issues have told me how they dislike being on that stage. Many of us with ASD actually like being on that stage.
We have too many stereotypes, right?
 
In addition to what @Richelle-H said, most "neurotypicals" do not have the degree of sensory issues, nor the degree of cross-over mental health issues such as depression, attention deficits, etc., nor the degree of LGTBQ issues, nor issues associated with asymmetrical intelligences (sometimes gifted in specific areas, yet having significant deficits in other areas). The brains of autistics are structurally different,...down to the cellular micro anatomy,...areas of hyper and hypo connectivity (thick and thin wires) and hyper and hypo conductivity (high and low voltage) leading to localized and/or global oxidant-to-anti-oxidant and neurotransmitter imbalances. Many of us have to either deal with the fact that we simply are not "wired" to do certain things,...and other times we find mental and social "work arounds" to give the illusion we can do things, even though we really can't. There is certainly "neurodiversity" within the neurotypical population,...but nowhere near the extremes found within the autistic population,...which as @Richelle-H cautioned, it is best not to categorize anyone. The more I do research on autism, the more I find it interesting.

@harrietjansson More to your second post: You are correct in that some people with ASDs are in the entertainment business,...some famous actors/actresses, musicians, etc. In some cases, socially,...even crisis situations,...it's the rational/logical-thinking autistic that is the calm one in the room. In other cases,...some folks with ASDs are emotional wrecks full of anxiety, can't seem to even mask, let alone get up on stage to perform. But this is the area where we run into trouble when describing "what it is like being autistic" to someone else who isn't,...because in specific circumstances, they too, can have these same issues. Then we get the denial that we even have autism, that we simply have this "neurodiversity" that everyone else has,..."it's just a label"...the toxic minimization that angers us. I tell people,...it's not the 10 difficult things we have in common every once in a while,...its the 110 things that are different and persistent.
 
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Allistic or autistic we are all human and even in the autistic community we need to lose the us versus them mentally.

Modern society is designed for allistic, extroverted people. An allistic with an ND other than autism will struggle just as much as an autistic.

Recent brain scan studies have shown their are physiological differences in the actual wiring and routing of information in the brains of autistics. Our neuropathways are completely different.

Allistics run on a Mac system, an allistic NDer may run on Windows. Autistics run on Linux.

Studies have also shown that autistic do not struggle to communicate nearly as much with fellow autistics because we operate on the same base program. Same can be said for allistics and allistic NDers. Where the issues begin is the interface differences among the groups. Allistic NDers tend to comprehend autistics better than a NT allistic because they have a divergence, etc.

Gail Saltz's book The Power of Different takes a look at a number of NDs, not just autism and ADHD.
 
Modern society is designed for allistic, extroverted people.
Is that even true? What are your arguments for this?

Studies have also shown that autistic do not struggle to communicate nearly as much with fellow autistics because we operate on the same base program.
What I've experienced is that this is not always true. In fact it can be more difficult to communicate when all the people have communication issues or even if just one has. As I already said, sometimes the person with NT is the one with communication issues in a particular situation. I think everything is more complex than what people want to admit!
 
In fact it can be more difficult to communicate when all the people have communication issues or even if just one has.

True. A long-time co-worker of mine,...he works night shift,...I work days,...he also appears to have a more significant variant of Asperger's condition than I do,...at least that's my working diagnosis after working with him for some 35+ years. Although, there are a lot of similarities in our personalities, social interactions, special interests, attention to detail, etc....he is significantly more socially "shut down" than I am. We sometimes report off to each other, and I struggle to communicate with him,...it's always awkward. I struggle with social reciprocity,...I was labeled as "severe"...but at least I try, however awkward I am,...he seems to make ZERO attempt. As a fellow Aspie,...I don't know,...it just seems like I am reaching out to him, but for him,...nearly zero eye contact, voice inflection,...next to nothing. He speaks when he wants to, but there is rarely any response from him if I am talking to him,...it's not that he's showing any emotion at all,...it's just that he is simply focused on the facts and is not about to elaborate on anything.
 
So my issue is that l can deal and mask well socially. But then later l need to be alone to come down from masking/making sure l followed norms for projecting correctly. A NT doesn't have to shut down and rethink did l bounce correctly in the pinball machine of social dynamics? I run thru a schematic that l check for responses. It does make me a better listener and people feel positive with their interaction with me. The downfall is that this leads them to believe that l am a very social animal, and l am really not. I am just more focused to social cues because my job security depended on it. But just dealing with relationships can leave me scratching my head because these are different dynamics that the schematic isn't clear due to the structure of random people. So that is a deep end of the pool. In these cases sometimes l ask questions that are too direct and the person doesn't which to disclose their exact thoughts for reasons only known to them which is acceptable to a NT, but to a ND- it's like we shift into this doesn't compute, this doesn't computer.

It's almost easier to turn my relationship into a customer service because then l have a script to run through. Other posters have complained by saying unstructured small talk is difficult because we have no script to follow. So then people can call you fake. At some point , you accept who you are and stay alone more often then not.
 
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Is that even true? What are your arguments for this.

The very existence of small talk itself. Gossip. Social networking. Social media. The functionality of society as a whole through impersonal social interactions. The definitions of 'normal' behavoir. The very reasons autistics mask, why sociopaths pretend to experience emotions.

What are we pretending to be neurotypical. How do we do it? By pretending to be cheerful and outgoing, when in fact we cannot tolerate people for long. Introversion was diagnostic criteria for neurological and personality disorders until 2012. A personality archetype was literally a pathological problem until just a decade ago. Extroversion was never part of the DSM. What is society saying with the divsion of the archetypes? Which is preceived as 'normal'?
 
In addition to what @Richelle-H said, most "neurotypicals" do not have the degree of sensory issues, nor the degree of cross-over mental health issues such as depression, attention deficits, etc., nor the degree of LGTBQ issues, nor issues associated with asymmetrical intelligences (sometimes gifted in specific areas, yet having significant deficits in other areas). The brains of autistics are structurally different,...down to the cellular micro anatomy,...areas of hyper and hypo connectivity (thick and thin wires) and hyper and hypo conductivity (high and low voltage) leading to localized and/or global oxidant-to-anti-oxidant and neurotransmitter imbalances. Many of us have to either deal with the fact that we simply are not "wired" to do certain things,...and other times we find mental and social "work arounds" to give the illusion we can do things, even though we really can't. There is certainly "neurodiversity" within the neurotypical population,...but nowhere near the extremes found within the autistic population,...which as @Richelle-H cautioned, it is best not to categorize anyone. The more I do research on autism, the more I find it interesting.

@harrietjansson More to your second post: You are correct in that some people with ASDs are in the entertainment business,...some famous actors/actresses, musicians, etc. In some cases, socially,...even crisis situations,...it's the rational/logical-thinking autistic that is the calm one in the room. In other cases,...some folks with ASDs are emotional wrecks full of anxiety, can't seem to even mask, let alone get up on stage to perform. But this is the area where we run into trouble when describing "what it is like being autistic" to someone else who isn't,...because in specific circumstances, they too, can have these same issues. Then we get the denial that we even have autism, that we simply have this "neurodiversity" that everyone else has,..."it's just a label"...the toxic minimization that angers us. I tell people,...it's not the 10 difficult things we have in common every once in a while,...its the 110 things that are different and persistent.

I am glad you mentioned the influence of logic / rational thinking, because that describes me. I have presented to groups of 60 or more without any issues whatsoever, because I am well versed in the subjects being discussed. Now I have reported truthful information that people did not receive well, but that is more of a reflection of the target audience than me.
 
The very existence of small talk itself. Gossip. Social networking. Social media. The functionality of society as a whole through impersonal social interactions. The definitions of 'normal' behavoir. The very reasons autistics mask, why sociopaths pretend to experience emotions.

What are we pretending to be neurotypical. How do we do it? By pretending to be cheerful and outgoing, when in fact we cannot tolerate people for long. Introversion was diagnostic criteria for neurological and personality disorders until 2012. A personality archetype was literally a pathological problem until just a decade ago. Extroversion was never part of the DSM. What is society saying with the divsion of the archetypes? Which is preceived as 'normal'?
I sometimes small talk without masking. I talk about the weather and other stuff like that if I feel comfortable in a situation but not in order to feel comfortable, I think.
 
Recent books on introversion, autism, and society.

Quite by Susan Cain.
Introvert Power by Helgoe.
Neurotribes by Silberman
The Power of Different by Saltz
Life in a Different Key by Donvan
Divergent Mind by Nereberg
Unmasking Autism by Price
What to Say Next by Buxbam
Hard Landings by McGovern

Argument is based on the fact that the most common observation among autistics is that they feel alienated from society. It is a case of the needs of the many (allistics) out weighing the needs of the few (autistics), or the one.

97.2% of the population (US) is allistic. MBTI data also suggests that autistics as a group tend toward introverted personality types.

Also consider the behaviour of introverts and extroverts archetypally, who is the more likely to speak up about something or freely engage in small talk? Logic tells us the extroverted individuals because that is how the reward systems in their brains function. They get energy from being with others. Introverts are self sustaining.

So you have a dominant brain type, (allistics), and an occcurence of roughly 50% extroverted nature within that 97.2%.
 
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I sometimes small talk without masking. I talk about the weather and other stuff like that if I feel comfortable in a situation but not in order to feel comfortable, I think.

I'm the opposite. Talking about the weather is perfect for masking and engaging in small talk which most people seem to find important. It's one of the most neutral and safe topics out there and as such it provides comfort, assurance and solidarity among people.
 
In high school I laughed uncontollably for no reason at all during schhol hour.i was embaressed but I couldn't stop.I saw online that some people,usually kids (I was about 16) with ASD laugh like that for nor reason in time when laughing isn't appropriate. Also i didn't socialize,i was in my world,dressed awkwardly,with wierd behaviour,stared at school compueters and cameras because I wanted to hack them,touched people without asking them,my notebooks were looking terrible.....​
 

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