Is living a 'full life' realistic?

[Maelstrom]

Does "leading a full life" inherently require constant social interaction with others?

Suddenly I'm think of Shel Silverstein- again.

The Missing Piece Meets the Big O

Sigh! almost like my biography...hopefully i'm almost to the round part.

 

[Judge]

Sigh! almost like my biography...hopefully i'm almost to the round part.

Keep on flipping, flopping and plopping. <fist-bump>

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

This may be pessimistic, but in my experience of life it never mattered how good I was at something. Without the social skills to be able to use that ability I have lived a life of frustration.

G, the problem simply seems to be that some folks that are more inclined to conform to groups that are comfortable with the social norms. Another group wants to conform to their own ideals.
The wolves will never be happy as sheep, and the sheep will never run with the wolves. To expect acknowledgement from some mediocre mundanes to whom you have proven your skill set and excellence to, is probably not in the cards.
I am an old fool and probably wrong.

 

[Maelstrom]

Keep on flipping, flopping and plopping. <fist-bump>

I'm trying, have plenty of bruises and a broken heart to show for it. But I get a little better every day, I'm starting to bend NTs my way...so I must be doing something right, maybe I will find true love yet. Thank you for your nice post Judge, I may have to buy that book and frame it. Best wishes Mael

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

I'm trying, have plenty of bruises and a broken heart to show for it. But I get a little better every day, I'm starting to bend NTs my way...so I must be doing something right, maybe I will find true love yet. Thank you for your nice post Judge, I may have to buy that book and frame it. Best wishes Mael

Mael, the only true love is self love, everything else is concession to satisfy ones own desires or affections, I think. What does a person gain by losing their soul to gain affection?

 

[Maelstrom]

Mael, the only true love is self love, everything else is concession to satisfy desires or affections, I think. What does a person gain by losing their soul to gain affection?

I have no plans on losing my soul to any woman...but I do think there is a certain magical coming together that couples can have when they focus on feeding eachothers happiness. It is a rare thing finding someone who wants to count the ways to make you happy instead of counting resentments. If you by some miracle get 2 people like that together, you get a maelstrom storm of (true love)...a beautiful thing. Dreams are made to be chased they give life meaning.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

I have no plans on losing my soul to any woman...but I do think there is a certain magical coming together that couples can have when they focus on feeding eachothers happiness. It is a rare thing finding someone who wants to count the ways to make you happy instead of counting resentments. If you by some miracle get 2 people like that together, you get a maelstrom storm of (true love)...a beautiful thing. Dreams are made to be chased they give life meaning.

Mael, You know me I just cannot not say what is on my mind.
I follow the 3 kinds of love theory.
1/Desire & passion
2/Loves of reason
3/Loves of understanding and acceptance, Agape.
What about that other love, the one that courtiers wooed the wives and daughters of the guys who were having a cultural crusading contest. Ah yes; a case of flesh, blood and bone.
Some call this romantic love perhaps based on European fictions called Romans? Romantic fiction takes so much energy to maintain the illusion over long time spans, years, decades. Like an addiction you must feed the illusion until one party or perhaps both fail to support the relationship. Usually with acrimony and repercussions. Maybe you can find the perfect romantic relationship.
I rather like the old #1, #2 and #3. Taint no fiction, it's fer real.

 

[Beverly]

EP you are so right. 1 would be initial infatuation and lust, that's normal in any relationship NT or AS. @ would be still infatuated but, finding the real reasons you love the person. 3 would be what a good long term relationship or marriage settles into. You understand each other, accept each other because you've had time enough to learn that you are not going to change the other person and, they are not going to change you. You are comfortable and, accept each other as you each are, you've learned to get along in almost any situation, you respect each other and, have worked out what you like doing together and, what you are each better off doing alone. You know each other well.

Romantic love as depicted in fiction is just that - fiction. You might get it on a date night now and then but, it is nothing but a pretentious act, you are both adapting what you have idealized what you know of romance from media into something tangible for the night, you are acting in a play without a script.

 

[Maelstrom]

"Epicurean Pariah, post: 232383, member: 13464"]Mael, You know me I just cannot not say what is on my mind.
I follow the 3 kinds of love theory.
1/Desire & passion
2/Loves of reason
3/Loves of understanding and acceptance, Agape.
What about that other love, the one that courtiers wooed the wives and daughters of the guys who were having a cultural crusading contest. Ah yes; a case of flesh, blood and bone.
Some call this romantic love perhaps based on European fictions called Romans? Romantic fiction takes so much energy to maintain the illusion over long time spans, years, decades. Like an addiction you must feed the illusion until one party or perhaps both fail to support the relationship. Usually with acrimony and repercussions. Maybe you can find the perfect romantic relationship.
I rather like the old #1, #2 and #3. Taint no fiction, it's fer real.

Mael, You know me I just cannot not say what is on my mind.
I follow the 3 kinds of love theory.
1/Desire & passion
2/Loves of reason
3/Loves of understanding and acceptance, Agape.
What about that other love, the one that courtiers wooed the wives and daughters of the guys who were having a cultural crusading contest. Ah yes; a case of flesh, blood and bone.
Some call this romantic love perhaps based on European fictions called Romans? Romantic fiction takes so much energy to maintain the illusion over long time spans, years, decades. Like an addiction you must feed the illusion until one party or perhaps both fail to support the relationship. Usually with acrimony and repercussions. Maybe you can find the perfect romantic relationship.
I rather like the old #1, #2 and #3. Taint no fiction, it's fer real.

Well some of those things are close...I'm more of a all of the above person, you need a little fire too...I think tho they all feed the fire in their own way...and if the fire stays warm looking for ways to make the other person happy isn't such a great burden, it's a pleasure....of course it is a 2 way thing for it to work.

 

[clg114]

Does "leading a full life" inherently require constant social interaction with others?

Suddenly I'm think of Shel Silverstein- again.

The Missing Piece Meets the Big O

Your bald with a beard?

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

If you're born to be a bridge, you will get walked over. It is the nature of a bridge. Stephen Boyett's Mortality Bridge has a positively epic scene about this, in which a role reversal in Hell causes someone who walked over people all his life to have to do it again, to everyone he's ever treated badly...while they watch.

And it doesn't end in an expected way; it's a healing work about the power of myth for us now, and what it means to forgive after a meaningful expiation.

So. As aspie, as introvert, and called to be social...the message I get is Pick up your cross and follow. You will not be left alone. But it does hurt, picking up that heavy thing, knowing that the walk will hurt also. Still, few people have the strength to be a bridge. That strength is the difference between being a bridge, and being a doormat. The bridge is alone, but has relationship for a time; the doormat has the same. But only one of them is respected.

 

[Ariel]

Wow at the response - easing the loneliness already! We are so lucky to have this forum.

What form do those "messages" usually take, in your experience?

It can be either direct (people demanding to know why I don't like the things that they like, pestering me about how I need educating to like these things: being full of praise when I do something out-of-autistic-character and telling me how I need to change, the constant questioning and strange looks) or indirect (inequality in the workplace, single supplement fees, food that I can't eat, being forced to use communication methods that I'm not comfortable with, everything being designed for right-handed people...the list goes on.

It's like the entire concept of my being is in dispute.
A lot of ASC people are lonely and do want some interaction with people but the message is, 'what are you even doing here?'

 

[Slithytoves]

It can be either direct (people demanding to know why I don't like the things that they like, pestering me about how I need educating to like these things: being full of praise when I do something out-of-autistic-character and telling me how I need to change, the constant questioning and strange looks) or indirect (inequality in the workplace, single supplement fees, food that I can't eat, being forced to use communication methods that I'm not comfortable with, everything being designed for right-handed people...the list goes on.

It's like the entire concept of my being is in dispute.
A lot of ASC people are lonely and do want some interaction with people but the message is, 'what are you even doing here?'

I see. So you're not only facing bias from people who know you're autistic, for things specific to your autism, but you also feel a more general alienation for other aspects of who you are as well. That definitely wouldn't feel very good. I'm very sorry you have to deal with that.

You said you can't eat certain foods. Do you have allergies, or celiac disease? I'm just trying to get a better picture of your whole situation before offering suggestions. My housemate has dietary restrictions, and I've learned a lot about how genuinely depressing that can be, since food is central to social/work life in so many ways.

About the stuff related to your autism, it would be foolish and insensitive for me to say, "Be positive, look on the bright side, and ignore the haters." We both know it's not that simple, especially when you're already feeling so brought down. I wonder, though, if a little pushback from your side might be in order (keep reading). Sometimes people think they're doing us a service when they praise us for acting NT or question/correct us. What it takes to get them to stop may be as simple as gently asserting that you don't need or want the kind of "help" they're offering. It doesn't have to be confrontational, but the question is how to make this comfortable enough for you to do confidently. So, more info is needed:

Everybody else's pressure on you notwithstanding, do you like being who you are? Do you sometimes feel you want to say something back to people when they praise you for acting more conventionally/like an NT, or when they question or correct you? What keeps you from speaking up for yourself?

 

[Beverly]

One of the best things I learned to tell "helpful" people was "Thanks but, no thanks."

I welcome and like honest criticism and feedback, that helps me learn and grow in whatever area is being critiqued but, the not so helpful "help" from well meaning but misguided individuals, I can live without.

I lost count of the times I was told a female can't do that and, went ahead and did it anyway. I don't like certain things and, I have no desire to try to like them, when it's suggested that I do so, I get a bit belligerent about it.

Now none of that applies once my professional facade is in place. The I have to be polite to those annoying people and say "I'll work on that." or "I'll remember that." or "I'll give that a try sometime." total lies but, it keeps the peace and does not insult them and, it maintains their image of me as a professional business woman. You have to be polished if you want to be respected as a business person. I can play the game but, it's just that, a game. I place those well meaning suggestions in my mental trash bin as soon as I am done speaking to the person that made the suggestion.

I know that learning all of the games society plays, even those required for a specific group or business, is not easy and, you feel as if you are betraying yourself when you play those games. You have to fake it, deceive them and, pretend you appreciate, approve and/or like them when the truth is you are not the person you are showing them, you are uncomfortable, possible even very close to a meltdown, they are useless twits in your mind, you don't like them or even want to be near them.

In turn they pretend to ignore your mistakes, call your quirks "fascinating eccentricities." and call you all manner of positive things. The classic "Fabulous Darling, absolutely fabulous." paraphrase and re worded in a multitude of different ways. All a game, they aren't who they pretend to be either, and they don't mean half of what they say but, that's the game.

Whatever the game is for the group or area you need to be accepted in to succeed, observe, learn that game, then build a mental mask or facade that will be you for the game and, go play the game. learn to be the best there is at that game, watch for smaller sub games, learn those too, and play them. Keep doing it, never forgetting it is just a game, and not really you, and pretty soon, you are the one they listen to, want to please and, want to approve of them, you've reversed the roles not because you really changed, but because you learned to play their game better than they can play it.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

One of the best things I learned to tell "helpful" people was "Thanks but, no thanks."

I welcome and like honest criticism and feedback, that helps me learn and grow in whatever area is being critiqued but, the not so helpful "help" from well meaning but misguided individuals, I can live without.

I lost count of the times I was told a female can't do that and, went ahead and did it anyway. I don't like certain things and, I have no desire to try to like them, when it's suggested that I do so, I get a bit belligerent about it.

Now none of that applies once my professional facade is in place. The I have to be polite to those annoying people and say "I'll work on that." or "I'll remember that." or "I'll give that a try sometime." total lies but, it keeps the peace and does not insult them and, it maintains their image of me as a professional business woman. You have to be polished if you want to be respected as a business person. I can play the game but, it's just that, a game. I place those well meaning suggestions in my mental trash bin as soon as I am done speaking to the person that made the suggestion.

I know that learning all of the games society plays, even those required for a specific group or business, is not easy and, you feel as if you are betraying yourself when you play those games. You have to fake it, deceive them and, pretend you appreciate, approve and/or like them when the truth is you are not the person you are showing them, you are uncomfortable, possible even very close to a meltdown, they are useless twits in your mind, you don't like them or even want to be near them.

In turn they pretend to ignore your mistakes, call your quirks "fascinating eccentricities." and call you all manner of positive things. The classic "Fabulous Darling, absolutely fabulous." paraphrase and re worded in a multitude of different ways. All a game, they aren't who they pretend to be either, and they don't mean half of what they say but, that's the game.

Whatever the game is for the group or area you need to be accepted in to succeed, observe, learn that game, then build a mental mask or facade that will be you for the game and, go play the game. learn to be the best there is at that game, watch for smaller sub games, learn those too, and play them. Keep doing it, never forgetting it is just a game, and not really you, and pretty soon, you are the one they listen to, want to please and, want to approve of them, you've reversed the roles not because you really changed, but because you learned to play their game better than they can play it.

Beverly, that was a fun read. I could never play nice. The true thought, even after reflection and with full awareness of the consequences just stick in my throat until I think I will choke, and out it spews. It must be Aspers.

 

[Beverly]

I know, it isn't easy not saying what you are thinking and, it takes years of frequent practice to do it and, not make it obvious that you are acting any more than they are. It is easier the higher up the social ladder you go, the more rich and famous they are, the more they act and play the game. Everyone knows it's all a series of deceptions. No one means it, and no one takes it as any more than just words in a grand play but, everyone knows that is what is expected, it's what you do in those circles.

I've seen separated couples whom I know hate each other a great deal play the game and, act as if they are best friends. As soon as they are in private, it's all out war but, in public, they are cordial and, complimentary of one another.

I don't like doing it, but I need the professional networking connections playing the game provides, so, I learned to play. I do have constant running monolog in my head about how pretentious, dishonest, unfair and horrible it is the entire time, but, i learned not to speak that aloud until I am in private. Internally, I want to gag and, sometimes vomit and the whole ordeal but, I don't. I used to have to excuse myself to vomit, it stressed me that badly to play the game, but I kept doing it, I had to. I desensitized myself to it all over the years.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

I know, it isn't easy not saying what you are thinking and, it takes years of frequent practice to do it and, not make it obvious that you are acting any more than they are. It is easier the higher up the social ladder you go, the more rich and famous they are, the more they act and play the game. Everyone knows it's all a series of deceptions. No one means it, and no one takes it as any more than just words in a grand play but, everyone knows that is what is expected, it's what you do in those circles.

I've seen separated couples whom I know hate each other a great deal play the game and, act as if they are best friends. As soon as they are in private, it's all out war but, in public, they are cordial and, complimentary of one another.

I don't like doing it, but I need the professional networking connections playing the game provides, so, I learned to play. I do have constant running monolog in my head about how pretentious, dishonest, unfair and horrible it is the entire time, but, i learned not to speak that aloud until I am in private. Internally, I want to gag and, sometimes vomit and the whole ordeal but, I don't. I used to have to excuse myself to vomit, it stressed me that badly to play the game, but I kept doing it, I had to. I desensitized myself to it all over the years.

Beverly, you can vent to me any time. I think you have it together, and your a hoot.
I learned long ago to take it as well as I dish it out.
For the most part I live in an unassailable fortress of calm.
The games don't mean a thing when the end is near enough to contemplate, yet far enough away to not dwell upon.

 

[Beverly]

I too have retreated to my fortress of calm for the most part. I still write freelance, mostly for friends or because a musicians story or, something that happened to them inspires me to write for them.

Now the only time the game means anything to me is when I have guests in my home, or go to a fellow musician's home or studio and, there are more people there than just those required for the project we are working on. If it's only required people, no need for the game and, there is one musician I work with most often because with him, there is no game. He is an Aspie, and a stubborn one that won't play the game for anyone.

He either communicates his way or, is silent, that's as close to playing the game as he gets. I admire and respect him for that and working with him is a joy. He's the only one that I will ghost write for. ( That is writing something and allowing the person you wrote it for to put their name on it, not yours.) A lot of it is his inspiration, or inspired by him but, he can't get the proper feelings put into words.I can so, I do it for him.

The most annoying and aggravating are the awards events. You have to pretend you agree with the choice of winners of each award, and that you think they are better than you in that category even when the facts say otherwise and, you are upset that you didn't even get mentioned for a category you hoped to win. But the cameras are always on you, or panning around the room so, you always have to look happy about what's going on and, interviewers can walk up to you and ask questions randomly, without your media team having given them the do not ask list for you. Security is minimal inside because no guards can be visible at any time on camera, so even your safety net of a bodyguard is gone. You are abandoned in the middle of one of the deepest oceans in the game, and you don't have a script, lyrics or any kind of guide to tell you which direction is safe. It is all on you to do and say what is expected and safe, no more and no less, you have to be perfect and, humans are rarely capable of perfection but, some of us do learn to fake it quite well. There you are among the best at the game and have clearly played well enough to considered a peer. i never believed I was in those situations, talent wise, yes I am their equal or better but, socially, hob-nobbing (means interacting with in a formal setting but using casual interactions.) with the rich and famous, no I don't think I am equal to the elite.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

This thread opened by Ariel, with a question; was social interaction required to live a fuller life?
The answer depends on your social needs. For me, social interaction was like a condiment in the buffet of life. Not quite needed for the meal, but expected nevertheless. For others, a meal is not dining alone.

Social interaction, hmm, do you remember the scene in,"Cool Hand Luke" Newman is in a ditch with a pick and 19 other convicts with picks. Two guards with shotguns, one at each end of of the ditch, you know all engaged in social engagement. Right? Luke/Newman throws down his pick and laughing all the way jumps the wires and makes a break for the woods. While the guards are shooting, the convicts throw down their picks and cheer Luke on.
We all are getting on the best we can, helping each other the best we can. I consider it my edge, to be an Asper in the real world, a joyful Asper. Who would have thought it. From the deepest, darkest despair to giddy joy, in one lifetime. It is like an epiphany, make a break for personal freedom if you are able. If you cannot make the break, cheer the daring on, and on!
The woods is not bad either, simply another POV, not even a judgement call, better or worse.

The joy that I experienced at Luke's break away was as profound a human experience, alone or with company. Our shared human experience that brings us together here, is alright by me and had given me a fuller life. I thank all involved with this social forum.
Oh, Ariel, if you are reading, it's your life, do what you love, it's never a chore and you just might succeed. I think you should try to do it your way if/when the opportunity presents itself, before you become a brick in the wall, it too often restricts ones freedom. Not always, the bricks on top get a great view. I guess "avoid being a load bearing brick", my thought of the day.
Do not do what others suggest without thinking deeply about yourself, and your capabilities and challenges. Your happiness and your life may depend on it.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

I too have retreated to my fortress of calm for the most part. I still write freelance, mostly for friends or because a musicians story or, something that happened to them inspires me to write for them.

Now the only time the game means anything to me is when I have guests in my home, or go to a fellow musician's home or studio and, there are more people there than just those required for the project we are working on. If it's only required people, no need for the game and, there is one musician I work with most often because with him, there is no game. He is an Aspie, and a stubborn one that won't play the game for anyone.

He either communicates his way or, is silent, that's as close to playing the game as he gets. I admire and respect him for that and working with him is a joy. He's the only one that I will ghost write for. ( That is writing something and allowing the person you wrote it for to put their name on it, not yours.) A lot of it is his inspiration, or inspired by him but, he can't get the proper feelings put into words.I can so, I do it for him.

The most annoying and aggravating are the awards events. You have to pretend you agree with the choice of winners of each award, and that you think they are better than you in that category even when the facts say otherwise and, you are upset that you didn't even get mentioned for a category you hoped to win. But the cameras are always on you, or panning around the room so, you always have to look happy about what's going on and, interviewers can walk up to you and ask questions randomly, without your media team having given them the do not ask list for you. Security is minimal inside because no guards can be visible at any time on camera, so even your safety net of a bodyguard is gone. You are abandoned in the middle of one of the deepest oceans in the game, and you don't have a script, lyrics or any kind of guide to tell you which direction is safe. It is all on you to do and say what is expected and safe, no more and no less, you have to be perfect and, humans are rarely capable of perfection but, some of us do learn to fake it quite well. There you are among the best at the game and have clearly played well enough to considered a peer. i never believed I was in those situations, talent wise, yes I am their equal or better but, socially, hob-nobbing (means interacting with in a formal setting but using casual interactions.) with the rich and famous, no I don't think I am equal to the elite.

Beverly, I am hip to some of the issues of promotion, once I barely worked for a music production and promotions back in the 70s. I learned a lot from Paul, who is a good person, but as a promotions agent I was dismal. I could not sell what I did not know or believe in. I did take promotions into a life style that was irresponsible yet rewarding. The talent was self promoting and I could promote by recording, photography or logistics. In control, in the background. A ghost amongst ghosts.
Take care.