How come help doesn't exist?

[Shevek]

I think it's worth noting that everything a good therapist can teach you can also be found in a book. There are self-help books for almost every condition and problem related to mental health, emotions, thinking, etc. Instead of shopping around trying to find a good therapist, you could just read a book written by a great therapist to get the best advice. I know some people have found these self-helps books to be more helpful than seeing a therapist. Of course, I realize reading books isn't for everyone and that having a great therapist who understands and validates how you feel (if you're able to find one) can provide additional benefits (such as social connection, feeling less alone) that you might not get from a book.

I learned engineering from books, and later spent years reading and searching for a description of my family troubles. Everything in my bubble was about nurture for 15 years until I finally stumbled upon a description of AS. With that clue, I found a counselor who, unlike a book, could tell me how unusual some of my history was, make educated suggestions and tell me what search terms applied to things I could only describe with a sentence. It wasn't just validation. I've also had counselors who were stuck on the wrong track, and dangerous.

 

[Matthias]

Autism, before severe co-morbid conditions are acquired, is just a peculiar but viable, inherited neurology; a difference, not a defect.
External conditions can make one's autism worse than it needs to be, but they cannot make one autistic (nor make one an NT).

Autism-competent counselors know this. Only an autism quack would seek to turn an autistic into an NT.

I've read articles that say genetics and the environment (such as air pollution) both play a role in autism risk so I don't think it's accurate to say autism is entirely genetic or inherited. While I think parenting may play a role as an environmental factor, I don't believe in blaming parents for their child's autism.

 

[Matthias]

I learned engineering from books, and later spent years reading and searching for a description of my family troubles. Everything in my bubble was about nurture for 15 years until I finally stumbled upon a description of AS. With that clue, I found a counselor who, unlike a book, could tell me how unusual some of my history was, make educated suggestions and tell me what search terms applied to things I could only describe with a sentence. It wasn't just validation. I've also had counselors who were stuck on the wrong track, and dangerous.

That's a good point. I think self-help books can be helpful to treat various problems but I wouldn't recommend people use them to diagnose themselves.

 

[the_tortoise]

Never take someone else's word for what your limits are - find out for yourself. You may be pleasantly surprised. Or not.

I never have. Seriously never. Even as a little boy I got pissed off at anyone who thought they knew me better than I knew myself; At anyone who tried to help me or take over a task I was trying to do by myself or to learn; At anyone who told me I could never do something.

And I was raised with the idea that I could do anything -- and unfortunately one of my parents actually literally believes trying harder solves everything and that truly anyone can do truly anything, that nobody has any hard limits of any kind...I actually had to unlearn this, for the first half of my life I wildly overestimated myself and sadly I was really self-critical about how often I failed despite how hard I tried.

So in addition to my own stubborn determination (I was told in adulthood that my mother's entire family noted the latter about me as a toddler before I could speak); being an autodidact (of necessity and just part of who I am...never grew out of asking "Why?";
if I hadn't been an independent learner and thinker I would have been stuck in special ed forever, learning nothing -- I learned outside of school, not so much in it); and making really good use of my strengths I have actually excelled at things that according to all experts I should never have been able to do at all...

I have tested my limits for almost
40 years. I can still develop, learn new things, improve skills (at least until/unless age-related mental decline sets in), sure; But I have a very well-developed and realistic sense of what I can and cannot do at this point - as well as an open mind as far as anything I have had no need nor reason to try to do ...but none of the latter are important and necessary daily life things.

 

[velociraptor]

that nobody has any hard limits of any kind...I actually had to unlearn this

No amount of wishing or pushing changes the limits of my heart condition.

But there are workarounds...

 

[the_tortoise]

But there are workarounds...

Speaking for you: that's great

Speaking for me:

Yes, sometimes for me, too. But only to a point:

There are not workarounds for everything - not even close to everything. (Could there be someday? Maybe, sure; But today(?) and for many things, in my lifetime? Not without rewiring my brain to an extent not currently possible by any means -- or dramatically changing fundamental aspects of society.)

And not always to the point where whatever workaround means I can do something to where I am at the equivalent of whatever anyone's definition is of "normal" or to the point that would mean I did not need lifelong support with something.

I get the sense sometimes that:

1. Maybe you (and others, too -- this is not universal but you are not alone if I am reading you accurately) perceive me as having a defeatist kind of mindset (like closed to hope, unwilling to try, unwilling to question myself, underestimating myself, suffering learned helplessness etc) just because I assert that I cannot do whatever you(/a group of people) have said you can do and have done; Or...

2. Maybe that you suspect or believe that in saying I can't do all the things you/many others can (or that I might be expected to be able do just because I have certain kinds of abilities, or because I have at some point managed to accomplish certain things that are usually associated with the expected-I-can-do-it thing(/s), such that people tend to
think: If a person [in this case tortoise] can do a,b,c then they must be able to do x,y,z ... as if actually separable abilities are inextricably linked in some truly universal way such that one reliably predicts the presence of all the others usually found alongside it...leading you to conclude :_) that I am just demonstrating lack of self-confidence or being down on myself or some similar attitude thing correctable with inspiration and encouragement;

Neither (1) nor (2) is true. I know myself.

I don't feel bad about my impairments, having them doesn't make me feel down on myself.

My perceptions of myself reflect realism based on lived experience; I am not being defeatist.

I have confidence when it is justified or when I have no evidence to suggest it isn't justified; But I also realistically see my limitations, based on extensive experiential evidence.

It seems like you (and some others) think I need an infusion of hope or a self-esteem/-confidence boost or inspiration/role models for overcoming disability... that then I would magically overcome all limitations one way or another. And I don't understand why.

The widespread inability to accept that maybe I'm good with who I am and just being realistic about what I can and cannot do (not a person who doesn't try, not a person suffering learned helplessness nor having a bad attitude nor lacking hope or self-confidence etc)...while I appreciate the good intent, I don't get it, and it gets tiring.

 

[velociraptor]

...while I appreciate the good intent, I don't get it, and it gets tiring.

I am communicating less with you and more with those dragged down by your negativity.

 

[the_tortoise]

I am communicating less with you and more with those dragged down by your negativity.

Wow, interesting. Thank you for finally being direct and honest. (not sarcastic - genuinely appreciate this)

I am grateful for the directness and honesty, but also offended, and kind of amused...

Amused because of the irony: my comments in response to yours are actually not just to you but also to and for anyone like myself who may be negatively affected by your toxic positivity and lateral ableism.

Ignoring the broader social consequences of supporting and promoting such toxic positivity and ableism, just looking at any given individual:

You words and opinions tend to go beyond just pointing out possibilities and creative approaches to adversity, beyond advocating hope and sharing your own successes as possible inspiration; You go waaaay beyond those things and take a bizarre detour to assuming everyone is just like you and acting like you know others' abilities and lives better than they do; This tends to hurt people (not everyone, but not just me -- lots of people are hurt by this kind of thing) by invalidating the reality of their lived experience and personhood, by erasing or warping things about the person they may see as neutral -- even if the consequence of an impairment is something bad in the world as it is, that doesn't actually mean that having the impairment is inherently bad ....

And whether any specific impairment or degree of impairment is arguably bad or not (in context or just always, as an absolute inherent quality) if it is something a person cannot change you do not do someone more impaired than you (or even just more unlucky in circumstances and available opportunities than you) any favors by trying to convince them that by simply asserting they and/or some people cannot do whatever-it-is that you can do they are demonstrating they have a bad attitude and/or don't try or are being negative; You are misconstruing healthy, practical, and neutral acceptance of reality as negativity....

Blaming people for their inability to do something and any suffering they experience as a result of that inability is essentially victim-blaming, and it does nothing to improve self-esteem, optimism or positive thinking, nor confidence -- you are actually working against your own stated goal of being helpful and supportive and offering hope; Especially if the reality is, as it often is, (whether you can accept it or not) that a person's best hope is support from others (and ideally change to the status quos in society) -- which starts with other people doing the exact opposite of what you continuously do to me (and I suspect everyone less able than yourself): Respecting the person's self-knowledge and actually considering the realities of their experience (as opposed to just your experience. which may be nothing like theirs, and the difference is often not a matter of choice or in any way attributable to attitude, confidence, or effort), by showing understanding and compassion ...sometimes (particularly on an internet forum where people are strangers and you do not actually know anything about people's lives save the tiny amounts they share) the most helpful thing you as an individual can do is actually just validation and voicing support for the person....which you refuse to do for anyone who asserts more impairment than you have.

I am frustrated by your toxic positivity and offended by your ableist victim-blaming and completely wrong, arrogant, consescending, and clearly unquestioned assumptions about me.

You seem unable to even tolerate let alone accept the reality of anyone being more impaired in any way than you are. (I try to speak specifically only about myself, but the reality is I am not the only person on earth or even just this forum who actually cannot do everything you can do -- and for whom
no compensation strategies or workarounds may be accessible and/or even exist aside from support from others in some circumstances where available. And I will not join you in blaming people for suffering or difficulty they do not choose and cannot single-handedly change.)

Seriously, dude, what is your problem with accepting that life has both good and bad, and that there is a lot more to how someone's life unfolds than just their attitude and effort?

And why exactly is nobody allowed to be different than you(?) -- why must we all have to have the same abilities as you?

Or is it just nobody who happens to share a diagnostic label with you is allowed to be different from you, ability-wise? (Please note: this is an incredibly rare occasion where every single question just asked is rhetorical - something for YOU to think about if you choose.)

Unlike you, I don't know for sure that my impression of you and your attitude is entirelt accurate, but most comments you have made to me (and many to others of a similar nature) on this forum suggest to me that you carry a lot of internalized ableism around in your head.

You may intend to be helpful, but by not considering the limits of what you know about other people and refusing to accept the FACT that not everyone can do all the things you can (and this doesn't preclude them being at the same time able to do things you can't do and never will be able to do btw) you can hurt people, can even make them afraid to talk about their challenges lest you and others with similar attitudes come along and make them
feel bad for things that they shouldn't feel bad about and refuse to engage in any discussion that actually acknowledges reality, while doing nothing to help them
in any way.

I don't tell you that your views of yourself and your life are incorrect -- I don't assume that your life circumstances and abilities are exactly the same as mine. You don't see me trying to tell you that positivity or optimism or hope without certainty about anything in your life is inherently bad, etc. Please note that I have accepted everything you say about yourself and your abilities and your own life - I would do this for anyone; I am not dragging anyone down.

I am not being negative, either. I am speaking realistically and in a way that acknowledges I have both strengths and weaknesses, areas of high ability and significan impairments. I am telling you that my abilities as well as the reality of my experiences and what is possible for me and many others (including many people I have personally known in my offline life) is not the same as your own. Recognizing a bad situation that you cannot (not alone anyways) change for what it is, is not the same as being negative. Again, it is called: realism. It often frees a person from pointless and unproductive self-blame, and restores self-worth; Allows someone to look for whatever is possible, instead of expecting that they should be able to overcome anything, because they falsely believe as you do that each person is 100% alone and independently the only determinant of their life circumstances. Many people exert maximum effort at everything they do and maintain hope always that eventually they will succeed at something and never do because it is impossible -- NOT because they failed to think positively enough or to try. Those people may be very hurt by your failure to recognize that attitude and effort are not the only things that determine outcomes and may unfairly blame themselves for things that are not at all their fault.

[PS before you presume my silence in response to any future comments about what I have said indicates acceptance of whatever it is you say: It is not. I am just ignoring you because the vast majority of interactions I have with you on this site are just you invalidating the reality of my person and my life - I accept what you say about yourself and your life, express happiness for your successes, acknowledge the value of hope, effort, optimism, creative problem-solving, even try to agree to disagree and point out all the things we agree on when discussion is kept at the level of generalities, but you never let this go -- I am tired of defending myself against spurious accusations and invalidating nonsense about myself and my life from you and I don't care what you think about me or about anything anymore -- and i doubt anything i say matters to you so i refuse to engage in dialogue with you anymore.]

 

[velociraptor]

Thank you for finally being direct and honest

I'm always direct and honest. I'm an AA member and dishonesty is the shortest path back to the bottle for me. Will disengage from you in the future because I don't have enough time in my day for the excess verbiage you shovel. You could just save time in the future by answering every post with "yes, but..."