History Channel

[Ronald Zeeman]

According to one guy, you may have to learn Mandarin.

Sister-in-law and my brother's kids already do. Plus our favorite restaurant chain is the Mandarin.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

With Field Marshal Montgomery trying to steal everyone's thunder. Particularly George Patton's.

The Field Marshal's attitude eventually caught up with him, getting on Eisenhower's bad side and then doubling down complaining to both Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt. Which turned out to be a VERY bad idea.

Patton did not like Guy who was a better planner. See battle for dutch port. Patton was not happy tried to claim credit.

 

[Judge]

Patton did not like Guy who was a better planner. See battle for dutch port. Patton was not happy tried to claim credit.

Patton's ego was something else. Much like Montgomery. He had incredible fortitude and knew the value of remaining always on the offensive. However, he'd probably had scoffed at the very nature of planning, even though it's a military necessity relative to intelligence and logistics.

Ironic to consider that Montgomery's failed "Operation Market Garden" was a classic case of going on the offensive over very bad intelligence. It was last nail to Monty's coffin as far as the allies were concerned.

Although Patton got his fourth star as a full general, he was eventually stripped of his administrative duties as an occupier of Germany and reduced to overseeing a group of soldiers merely archiving data for the Army. Only months later to die from injuries in an auto accident.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Guy was a modest man, got promoted to chief of forces. never beat his own drum. The more I learn about him the more impressed I get, After all no skin, my parents moved here after war.

 

[Judge]

Guy was a modest man, got promoted to chief of forces. never beat his own drum. The more I learn about him the more impressed I get, After all no skin, my parents moved here after war.

Reminds me of another general. Known as the "G.I General"- Omar Bradley.

Who was everything Patton wasn't, but that Patton should have been as a great leader.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Bottom line china has half their stated population ten more years real issue with keeping their industry going. Russia
going down tube fast, USA like Roman empire collapsing. Wait a year or two.

 

[Outdated]

Ironic to consider that Montgomery's failed "Operation Market Garden" was a classic case of going on the offensive over very bad intelligence. It was last nail to Monty's coffin as far as the allies were concerned.

He didn't exactly endear himself to the Aussies either and our successes in Egypt and Africa were in spite of him rather than because of him. He especially hated being upstaged by a bunch of colonials and didn't like our Lieutenant General Sir Leslie Morshead one bit.

Morshead was a hero to everyone that followed him and his men called him Ming The Merciless.

Leslie Morshead - Wikipedia

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I think the commonwealth will tighten up for the next few years.The French commonwealth also, being members of.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Good history, video a bit screwy guy was Lieutenant general not a junior officer

 

[Sflight]

I guess post anything history related here. History being an obsession of mine.

Hello.there I love history too alsorts of history a combination, and the 18th century I love museums too and have explored many and also enjoy science

 

[Judge]

Good history, video a bit screwy guy was Lieutenant general not a junior officer

Lt. General Simonds was right.

Odd that ranking officers seemed dismissive about protecting infantry on open ground. To consider one critical factor at the time. The German MG42 standard machine gun, that replaced the older MG34 just a year earlier. A weapon quite plentiful among German soldiers defending the coast of Normandy.

The MG42 had a reliable combination of a muzzle velocity (740 meters per second) and a rate of fire of 1200 rounds per minute). And it made a frightening sound alerting Allied soldiers who commented on it sounding like thick fabric being ripped. A device more than capable of slaughtering many infantrymen caught on open ground.

MG 42: The 'Deadliest Machine Gun' in Military History

Indeed, Lt. General Simonds was not any "junior officer". Though perhaps in the context of being subordinate to British and commanders the presentation was trying to imply how dismissive the English could be of their commonwealth allies even when they had excellent plans and considerations of the invasion. Resulting in a very old, yet very real prejudice that did not serve the crown well.

A prejudice that our first president George Washington was quite familiar with, a "colonial" having initially served under British General Edward Braddock who later came to appreciate Washington's military capabilities. That same prejudice that British General Cornwallis would also later come to regret at the battle of Yorktown, being so humiliated that he sent his subordinate to formally surrender his troops to General Washington .

 

[Jonn]

Lt. General Simonds was right.

Odd that ranking officers seemed dismissive about protecting infantry on open ground. To consider one critical factor at the time. The German MG42 standard machine gun, that replaced the older MG34 just a year earlier. A weapon quite plentiful among German soldiers defending the coast of Normandy.

The MG42 had a reliable combination of a muzzle velocity (740 meters per second) and a rate of fire of 1200 rounds per minute). And it made a frightening sound alerting Allied soldiers who commented on it sounding like thick fabric being ripped. A device more than capable of slaughtering many infantrymen caught on open ground.

I found it interesting how the American military tried to downplay the effectiveness of the MG 42.
Evidence of misleading propaganda.

MG 42: The 'Deadliest Machine Gun' in Military History

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

German is amazing culture, still is. My bother was a maintenance mechanic always told me the best machinery for design was german.

 

[Judge]

I found it interesting how the American military tried to downplay the effectiveness of the MG 42.
Evidence of misleading propaganda.

Absolutely. Such misplaced hubris given the military momentum of victory at the time.

Right up to Operation Market Garden, and later the Battle of the Bulge. When Germany showed that they were not ready to surrender, putting up quite a fight to the bitter end in May 1945.

Again reflecting the need for careful planning, and particularly first-rate intelligence of an enemy's capabilities.

 

[Jonn]

Patton's ego was something else. Much like Montgomery. He had incredible fortitude and knew the value of remaining always on the offensive.

Patton caused a big stir when he voiced his admiration for the German soldier.
Speculation is that his death via a motor vehicle "accident" was a man-made, deliberate event as a result of his overall pro-German stance.

However, he'd probably had scoffed at the very nature of planning, even though it's a military necessity relative to intelligence and logistics.

Ironic to consider that Montgomery's failed "Operation Market Garden" was a classic case of going on the offensive over very bad intelligence. It was last nail to Monty's coffin as far as the allies were concerned.

Operation Barbarossa.
The 3-day Special Operation in Ukraine.

Although Patton got his fourth star as a full general, he was eventually stripped of his administrative duties as an occupier of Germany and reduced to overseeing a group of soldiers merely archiving data for the Army. Only months later to die from injuries in an auto accident.

As I said, his attitudes toward the Germans were not appreciated by the prevailing power group.

 

[Jonn]

German is amazing culture, still is.

The Versailles Treaty was a BIG mistake.

 

[Judge]

As I said, his attitudes toward the Germans were not appreciated by the prevailing power group.

Which invites yet another discussion of underestimating one's enemy- or their ally.

How dramatic the position by that prevailing power group towards the German people evolved given the imposing threat of the Soviet Union. Something that only Winston Churchill had the foresight in seeing it happening before the fact.

Which also mitigated and reduced so many harsh sentences of Nazis and Japanese convicted of war crimes. A complete reversal of policy based on political pragmatism over moral convictions. Something to reflect upon in hindsight relative to deeply punitive treaties such as Versailles.

A process that may have well been part of the decision to allow Japan to retain their emperor, rather then indict him for war crimes. When so much righteousness may have come at a very high price for an occupying power.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Either way my wife is part German eight generations in Canada. Lots of connections with American Germans Her DNA show swiss German.

 

[Jonn]

Which invites yet another discussion of underestimating one's enemy- or their ally.

Ppl seem to forget that the USSR was Nazi Germany's ally, which invaded Poland from the East.
Then this "ally" turned into the most serious threat to Western Democracy at the end of the war.

How dramatic the position by that prevailing power group towards the German people evolved given the imposing threat of the Soviet Union. Something that only Winston Churchill had the foresight in seeing it happening before the fact.

My research strongly suggests that it was the "Red Threat" that caused the change of plans away from the Morgenthau Plan to the Marshall Plan.
I personally believe that civilian casualties were the initial intention of the Morgenthau plan.
The figures involved had extreme anti-German sentiment, after all.

What irony:
The biggest threat to German sovereignty (since it was believed in some areas that the USSR would have attacked Germany at some time, given its imperial ambitions that came to light after the war under Stalin) was also its saviour from becoming a "Farming Nation" rather than the industrial might it is today.

Which also mitigated and reduced so many harsh sentences of Nazis and Japanese convicted of war crimes. A complete reversal of policy based on political pragmatism over moral convictions. Something to reflect upon in hindsight relative to deeply punitive treaties such as Versailles.

No offence intended, but what "moral conviction"?
Other nations were calling out the cruelty of the Morgenthau Plan, especially from the British side.
Many ppl understood the moral depravity of "Collective Guilt".

A process that may have well been part of the decision to allow Japan to retain their emperor, rather then indict him for war crimes. When so much righteousness may have come at a very high price for an occupying power.

Once again.
Righteousness?
Pragmatism, I would say.

After all, the USSR was preparing to invade Japanese territory, and some say that the dropping of the 2 atomic bombs was meant to be a signal to the USSR not to try.
Some believe the same message was given to the Soviets in Europe, with the fire-bombing of Dresden.

"Wheels within wheels..."

 

[Judge]

No offence intended, but what "moral conviction"?

Seems you misunderstood my use of terms like "moral" and "righteous". I was referring largely to the Nuremberg Trials of 1946. The intent to impose due process on former Nazi leaders but also with the intent to convict them by any means and either imprison them, or execute them.

- Their moral conviction, which didn't last very long. Not mine.

Small wonder Hermann Göring's response to be indicted said it all: "The victor will always be the judge, and the vanquished the accused."

Which essentially backfired when the British and Americans realized Stalin's plans for their portion of occupied Europe. When suddenly our former enemies better served us as new allies.

Some us are very much aware of the Soviet Union's decision to murder most of Poland's officer corps (22,000), done in the Katyn Woods in 1940. Which would later be exposed by the Nazis who later occupied the area and conducted quite the field autopsy, all for propaganda purposes. But it wasn't staged or a lie.

Nothing righteous or moral about accepting the Russians as allies in 1941. That was pure pragmatism. Not to mention already knowing how Josef Stalin oppressed his own people in staggering numbers, particularly the purges of their own officer corps in the late 30s apart from forced collectivization. A contributing factor to the German's initial success of Operation Barbarossa".

And as the war winded down, the Allies were beginning to think morally and righteously about a new world order. Not paying enough attention to Stalin's intentions, and still riding on the high of victory in Europe. Sentiments that were pretty much gone for good with the Berlin Airlift of 1948.