Have you found yourself targeted by someone with Borderline Personality Disorder?

[megacomic]

I thought I was in a one of a kind situation. I'm not saying all people with BPD are bad. Many are loving and loyal. But what I actually learned from other Aspies is we are prime real estate for BPDs because we dont understand emotions very well and they are powerful manipulators. It's a relationship that's borderline predatory (no pun intended). It's almost as if some of them seek us out because on average we have need to always do the right thing and try to help others. A person with untreated BPD seems to be krytonite to unsepsecting Aspies because they can make you fell like the greatest person ever before systematically destroying your life. Has anyone else had this experience?

 

[GadAbout]

I'd like to see whose diagnostic criteria you are using for BPD. I never knew borderlines were manipulative as such, that seems more true of people with antisocial personality disorder. Borderlines are folks with alternating idealization/demotion of others, but not from a manipulative point of view. They also tend to have a lot of self-harm behaviors - but they don't do that to manipulate other people. So, where are you coming from, and are you sure of your definitions?

 

[Fino]

You sound like my ex...

I'd like to see whose diagnostic criteria you are using for BPD. I never knew borderlines were manipulative as such, that seems more true of people with antisocial personality disorder. Borderlines are folks with alternating idealization/demotion of others, but not from a manipulative point of view. They also tend to have a lot of self-harm behaviors - but they don't do that to manipulative other people. So, where are you coming from, and are you sure of your definitions?

According to the DSM IV and much literature, manipulation is a hallmark of BPD. It is a controversy though, as some believe what's perceived as manipulation is something else.

 

[Progster]

Yes. By a person from my partner's family, who I strongly suspect has BPD. Now I recognise it for what it is, it is easier, but she has abused me a lot in the past, and I have some PTSD-like reactions to her and I've cut off contact.

 

[Fino]

Perhaps it is in some cases, but I don't think it's as intentional and direct as you're making it sound. It's hard to explain. It's complicated and endlessly confusing.

 

[Bolletje]

No, I haven’t. I’ve met some people with BPD in passing. They were mostly friendly but deeply troubled individuals.

 

[GadAbout]

According to the DSM IV and much literature, manipulation is a hallmark of BPD. It is a controversy though, as some believe what's perceived as manipulation is something else.

I don't see it in diagnostic criteria for either DSM-IV or DSM-V.

Diagnostic criteria for 301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder | Behavenet
https://behavenet.com/diagnostic-criteria-30183-borderline-personality-disorder
Diagnosing borderline personality disorder

Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified – Symptoms

 

[LateBloomer]

I've experienced this firsthand and can relate to the ' Kryptonite ' analogy . In my case it wasn't people with BPD , it was Covert Malignant Narcissists . Absolutely deadly to autistic people like myself . Like many of us , I looked for popular NT role models and tried to mimic their behavior in an attempt to ' fit in ' . Narcissists are people who project every negative aspect of their personality onto others . What a total train wreck , they blame you for all their bad behavior while outwardly appearing ' good ' , and we believe them .

 

[Judge]

I'd think conditions indicative of manipulation would involve other considerations such as sociopaths or narcissistic personality disorder.

Just not BPD whether by the DSM-IV or DSM-V definitions.

Diagnostic criteria for 301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder | Behavenet

 

[Schism]

I was first scared I had BPD before ASD diagnosis! I had all sorts of different doctors labelling me with one thing or another. I am prone to Narcissists though. They reel me in & play me every time. They are the most dangerous players out there for me atm. I hope I never meet a psycho however! The world is a dangerous place.

 

[Aspychata]

I think we can be targeted by anyone. I try to think carefully about all my interactions with everyone. Sometimes l screw up but l still try to do my best given my daily circumstances. It's not like we can ask people to divulge their mental idiosyncrasies.

 

[Judge]

I think we can be targeted by anyone. I try to think carefully about all my interactions with everyone. Sometimes l screw up but l still try to do my best given my daily circumstances.

Indeed. Lots of predatory homo sapiens all around us, not necessarily to be defined in any particular manner.

Just another basic reason for being careful with who you choose to tell that you're on the spectrum of autism.

 

[Fino]

I don't see it in diagnostic criteria for either DSM-IV or DSM-V.

Diagnostic criteria for 301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder | Behavenet
Diagnosing borderline personality disorder

Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified – Symptoms

I see you're right that the word "manipulation," isn't used. I actually thought it was, based on conversations I've had with psychologists. I believe the inference of "manipulative," is made from some of the following:

"Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment," efforts which may often involve manipulation.

"Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior," all of which is inherently manipulative when done in the context of a relationship.

"Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger," which often results in manipulation, overt or covert.

"These abandonment fears are related to an intolerance of being alone and a need to have other people with them. Their frantic efforts to avoid abandonment may include impulsive actions such as self-mutilating or suicidal behaviors . . ."

I'm quoting the DSM V, but there were no significant changes made to this disorder between IV and V.

"They may idealize . . . at first or second meeting, demand to spend a lot of time together . . . however, they may switch . . . feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not 'there' enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that other person will 'be there' in return to meet their own needs on demand."

There's more but I'm tired.

After hearing for years about how cunning and manipulative people with BPD are, it's very interesting to see many people here say the opposite.

 

[Fino]

No, I haven’t. I’ve met some people with BPD in passing. They were mostly friendly but deeply troubled individuals.

How did you ascertain in passing that they were deeply troubled?

 

[Fino]

I've experienced this firsthand and can relate to the ' Kryptonite ' analogy . In my case it wasn't people with BPD , it was Covert Malignant Narcissists . Absolutely deadly to autistic people like myself . Like many of us , I looked for popular NT role models and tried to mimic their behavior in an attempt to ' fit in ' . Narcissists are people who project every negative aspect of their personality onto others . What a total train wreck , they blame you for all their bad behavior while outwardly appearing ' good ' , and we believe them .

BPD and Narcissism are very different and so would any abuse done by them. In fact, it's a common relationship for people with BPD to be drawn toward narcissists and vice versa.

 

[Bolletje]

How did you ascertain in passing that they were deeply troubled?

Well, a few of them were patients I saw for a two hour assessment. Maybe that isn’t really in passing. I also spent three months in a daily therapy group with two people with BPD, so that’s a little more than passing
I guess I didn’t formulate myself too well today.

 

[Fino]

Well, a few of them were patients I saw for a two hour assessment. Maybe that isn’t really in passing. I also spent three months in a daily therapy group with two people with BPD, so that’s a little more than passing
I guess I didn’t formulate myself too well today.

Oh okay, that makes more sense!
But that's a biased sample, as anyone in treatment would be expected to be troubled.

 

[Aspychata]

From what l have been reading, there are a huge number of narsisstic personalties in many power positions, not so much borderline.

 

[Bolletje]

Oh okay, that makes more sense!
But that's a biased sample, as anyone in treatment would be expected to be troubled.

You are absolutely correct, wise duck of truthiness!

 

[righan]

This topic has gotten way off the original premise it looks like and I don't want to add to the digression too much, but I think part of the issue here is also about what is and is not manipulation. I could debate all day about that topic, but the important thing is that I've observed that words that describe human behavior often have different or stricter defintions in the psychological community than in general use/culture. So a person with BPD might tend to do things that some people call manipulative but that behavior still might not meet a diagnostic criteria of manipulative behavior used by a psychologist.

Getting back on topic ... as for having issues with a someone who has BPD, yes. I have. My first major girlfriend had BPD and she and I had a very turbulent relationship that was very damaging to me. I think the damage went both ways though, because of how I reacted to situations and the limitations I have socially as a result of not being neurotypical myself. I think it was just a toxic situation.

On the other hand, one of the most toxic people I've ever dated was a girl with ASD. She really messed me up and although you could look at her bad behavior and see how it was caused by or related to her ASD, everyone here knows that not all or even most people with ASD people have bad behavior.

I tend to attract people with various 'conditions' whether that is ASD, BPD, ADHD, bipolar, anti-social personality disorder, and even schizophrenia. So I've known, interacted with, and been able to observe people with a variety of 'conditions' over a long period of time in every day life. What I can say is that just like neuro-typical people, some of them are bad and some of them aren't. Each one simply has a different experience of the world, a different set of challenges, strengths, and frustrations but what they do with it changes from individual to individual.