Empathy or Compassion

[Sportster]

. . .

 

[NinaB]

I totally agree, i never know what to do when someone is crying but i sometimes want to cry together

 

[mw2530]

I think there is a lot of truth to what you say. The feelings we experience are often very intense that we struggle to work through them and experience them. Rather, we run from them. In the case of empathy, it makes us look like we don't care. What about other feelings? I rarely show any feelings towards others. I rarely show happiness, sadness, etc.... When someone has a problem, if I stay too close it often feels like it becomes my problem. So if I don't run away, it has the same stressful affect on me as if it was my problem. I think we have been hurt from caring too much in the past so we now run away.

 

[the_tortoise]

I tend to agree with you -- at least as far as a lack of empathy not being a characteristic trait of autism.

This is all complicated, though, by the many ways a person can be autistic, and how we define what is autism and what is something else....

Some on the spectrum may lack empathy (as in, they don't understand or experience a re-creation of feelings perceived in others).... in that case recent studies suggest it is due to alexythemia (which some autistic people have and some autistic people lack) and even then an autistic person with alexythemia may still care about other people and have strong morals that compell them to act in compassionate ways, whether or not they can figure out what that compassion should look like.

 

[Rasendra]

I totally agree, i never know what to do when someone is crying but i sometimes want to cry together

I completely agree that we have empathy and often are unsure how to act. When I was little I did exactly that. Whenever someone else started crying so would I. Not sure if this made things more difficult since my parents knew I had empathy so drew them further away from noticing my struggles. But it does always bother me to hear that I don't have feelings or anyone with autism don't have emotions. Like we are an empty shell or an android.

There was an article I came across a couple years ago however that basically said that those with Aspergers felt emotions stronger than NTs. Which would explain our struggles even better since we have trouble communicating under normal circumstances but if we feel stronger than NTs how much harder does that make it for us? I think shutting down from emotional overload or no reaction due to unsure how to respond gives the appearance of uncaring or unfeeling.

Also though the more logical side can pull us out of the emotional state which can seem uncaring.

 

[Judge]

Isn't empathy a synonym for compassion?

The distinction I always consider isn't so much a matter of semantics, but rather simply how it is interpreted or projected. That NTs seem more likely to expect people to be visually demonstrative of their compassion or empathy and that if they don't see it, they don't acknowledge it.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Isn't empathy a synonym for compassion?

The distinction I always consider isn't so much a matter of semantics, but rather simply how it is interpreted or projected. That NTs seem more likely to expect people to be visually demonstrative of their empathy and that if they don't see it, they don't acknowledge it.

I always thought they were synonyms.

Personally I find very few NTs have what I would call empathy or compassion, so they should not judge too much..

In my particular case, I do not assume if someone does not show empathy, they must not have it, as they could be too shy to show it, or not know how to show it, but if they say or do something that looks like a lack of empathy, I process that and can make some prejudgment. If that pattern continues, I only then may see that person may have less empathy. But, I agree, many NTs could assume a lack of empathy is based on lack of words or actions showing that.

However, I admit I am confused by some persons in this forum. I will try to word things as best as I can.

There are some persons that seem to show compassion or empathy to certain persons or groups of persons, but then seem heartless or mean to others.

To me a really empathetic person would be empathetic to mostly all, and not to just some. How can empathy be turned on and off? Yes, a person can have worse days than others, so seem less kind on those days, or have gripes with certain persons, but it makes me think that those persons probably lack empathy if they repeat that pattern of hatred, that could be offensive to certain groups of persons on this forum. I do not assume thus their caring to a few may show empathy. It may be just a learned way to act, and not show proof of an ability to understand and show compassion.

I realize Aspies can generalize, and it is ok at times, and as on occasion everyone does, including I just now, and in many cases the generalization can be accurate, but when the generalization brings about division or hatred, and seems way off base or unfounded and mean, without facts or information to back it up, I see that as a lack of empathy. When these persons say things that are rude and crude, without foundation, and act like they have done nothing wrong that shows a lack of compassion or empathy.

And yes, for those persons who are in a relationship, then end it abruptly without feeling any concern or remorse about the other who may have given a lot of effort too and who wanted it to work out, or to work it out, they could lack empathy, as they may be in a zone to do what is best for them without thinking of that other. This is found in NT relationships with NTs, and Aspie relationships with Aspies or NTs. I have no way of knowing which is more common. I just feel too much empathy, or too little may create problems in a relationship. It
is preferred to have a healthy balance.

 

[DogwoodTree]

This is a helpful distinction, I think. I pick up on other people's emotions very easily, way more easily than I do my own. And then I respond in ways that I think should be helpful. But the other person doesn't perceive it as being helpful at all, sometimes even hurtful instead. And then when they get angry at me, I really don't understand what I did wrong when I was trying so hard to do right, even factoring in what I know of NTs and of that person to try to adjust my response appropriately. But still somehow I miss what it was they wanted.

Helplessness has settled in now, and I tend to not even try, knowing I'll fail no matter how hard I try. So then they get even angrier, thinking I'm being cold, when really I'm just trying to protect them from my deficiencies in giving them what they want.

My therapist suggests the people I'm trying to please aren't healthy, and so of course I'll never be able to make them happy. I'll never be enough for them. But I don't know how to find healthy people. The ones I thought I had found don't seem to like me all that much, either. They tolerate me, and say there are things about me that they like. But it's still not enough to want me around, apparently.

 

[SusanLR]

Empathy...again, is it the ability to relate to or feel what others feel? The new In phrase: "Can you feel me?"
Or is it compassion and caring felt for others?
If so, then lack of would be those who just don't care about what is happening to someone else.

 

[Suzanne]

we are touched and feel empathy.

Only if you can imagine what it is like to be homeless, otherwise, it is compassion you feel.

 

[xudo]

So, I fully realise I am going to sound like a terrible person but:

We see a homeless person, someone struggling, a hurting individual, etc. we are touched and feel empathy.

I don't. If I do actually notice a homeless person (there are a lot of them in my city) then I don't feel anything. I don't think anything, I might just notice them in passing and I carry on.

i never know what to do when someone is crying but i sometimes want to cry together

I never know what to do when someone is crying, but I've never wanted to cry with them. It makes me uncomfortable when someone starts crying and I would very much like it if they would stop.

Maybe that makes me a terrible, uncaring shell of a person but that's the way I am.

 

[Fitzo]

I don't think empathy and compassion are the same thing.
As I've already said before I think to be empathetic you have to be able to put your self in their shoes. To do that you either have to have had a similar experience yourself or at least observed someone else who has, and seen and understood the pain they've suffered as a result. But you can show compassion to someone who is obviously suffering even if you don't have a real understanding of what they're going through.

 

[Chance]

I feel what I think is empathy? I feel stuff (peoples pain) that isn't even mine to feel sometimes and I might not even know who or where it comes from (hard to explain).

I can walk into an ER, Hospital, or attend a funeral and I usually get into a lot of trouble inside... There are deeply sad feelings there that I have no idea what to do with... So I don't simply for that logical fact, but it crushes me at the same time. So I can see how people think I am heartless, when that is the last thing I want to be.

Most times when I have tried to comfort someone I say something logical or stupid and it makes me seem like I don't care when I do care very much. However lets say someone gets hurt in my presence... All of this vanishes, I can help in that way. For instance I witnessed a car crash on the highway and I stopped and helped them and waited till EMS got there and then went on. It seems when I don't have time to think about it, I'm okay with it. I'm just being logical, that person truly needs help I and do what needs done in that instance... But otherwise I over think it, and I'm just a mess inside.

I have some people who are maybe "hypochondriacs" around me... I don't deal with that too well, so I don't usually say much, if I do its a logical heartless reply... In those cases are where it is seen, and I have been called a heartless b------d. In my mind I think I see it as drama, and people seeking attention and they use their "woe is me card." At that point I basically don't care and then I feel bad for it most the time.

 

[onlything]

I would describe the situation this way from the more psychological point of view:

In a basic sense, empathy is an ability to understand and share an emotional state with others.

On the other hand, sympathy is a simple(or not so simple) concern for others, for their wellbeing physical and/or emotional.

Compassion, on the other hand, would be neither empathy nor sympathy, yet it would require both. I consider it as caring for another person's happiness, as if it was your own.

Of course, these words are so subjective and fluctuant that even NTs wouldn't be able to create the full division.

In this basic sense, NDs definitely have sympathy and are surely able to form a compassionate response for those we truly care about, so we do have or are able to have compassion.

Empathy, however, is something slightly different. What we have, I would say, is some deficit in empathy.

Let me say why I think so.

As I said, empathy is:

• understanding the emotional state with others
• and sharing this emotional state

Because of how our brains are wired, we may have a difficult time understanding emotional state of other people and you cannot share if you don't understand. For example, I was never able to understand teenage girls concerns about dates, love problems, choice of clothes for different days, etc. It's simply not how my brain works, so I need to make a conscious choice of trying to understand.

My first step in understanding others was when my colleague's cat died. I never saw the cat, I also didn't really spend much time with this person. As such, even if logically I knew it was sad, I couldn't feel it. However, when I tried to understand her situation, I remembered how I felt when my pet died. Only then I was able to really understand and share her emotional state.

As such, it can be difficult for us to understand others' emotions and act in a thoughtful way because we only understand how our own brains and thought processes work and we need to make a counscious choice to understand.

So, we may have difficulties in empathy but it doesn't mean we lack empathy.

Honestly, I think that NTs themselves are not very empathetic towards NDs. So, in NT's mind we lack empathy because we can't fully understand those wired differently. In theory, if the world consisted mostly of NDs, it would be NTs that lack empathy.

We have different interests, values, needs. Of course, we can't fully understand NTs who can be so different to us.

 

[VioletHaze_03]

it depends on what kind of empathy you are talking about. while we don't completely lack ALL kinds of empathy, we do lack one type. cognitive empathy. this would be the ability to "walk in someone else's shoes" this is the kind of empathy we miss out on, due to the way our brains are wired. however, we do have emotional empathy. this means that we can feel what the other person is feeling. this doesn't mean we are seeing things from their perspective, it just means that their mood affects us. (if someone is giving an angry rant, you might agree with them and also feel angry.) the third kind is called compassionate empathy, and this is the one most associated with the generic definition of empathy. it simply means being moved by someone else's emotions so much, we feel that we must take action and help them. the reason that it is said autistics feel more empathy may be because our brains are more affected by the second kind of empathy, but lack the first two so we don't have the means to express it. however, some people on the spectrum may not feel any of these, and some of them may have cognitive empathy, so it is difficult to generalize.

 

[Ambi]

There have been threads and discussions on the subject of those on the spectrum lacking empathy. It dawned on me today while reading some threads (I’ll not disclose which) that even though the two words mean the same, they can actually diverge. Please bear with me, as I try to explain.

I do not believe that those of us on the spectrum lack empathy. We see a homeless person, someone struggling, a hurting individual, etc. we are touched and feel empathy. I believe it is the lack of “compassion” as a verb is what makes people think we lack empathy. We do not know how to put our empathy into action. Because of other “challenges” of being on the spectrum, we do not know how to be compassionate while empathizing.

Anyway, what are your views on this theory? Am I correct, or has Sportster’s red Harley gone around the bend?

Unless I am misunderstanding, I don't think empathy means simply being touched/moved by someone else's situation - it's the natural feeling of what that person is feeling. I like how Violet Haze explained the different kinds. But for sympathy, you don't have to feel what the other is feeling - even if you still have some type of feeling in reaction to what the other person is going through. I think one of the problems is a) people not understanding the difference; b) people thinking they are experiencing empathy when it is actually sympathy or simply rationally understanding what a person is feeling but not feeling it or anything (it took a long time and it was a shock when I finally understood this about myself); and c) people are trying to categorize all Aspies under one umbrella - do we or don't we. There are many here who say they feel empathy. I absolutely do not. It is an area I have to work around, and I need to work hard at working around it appropriately.

 

[DogwoodTree]

while we don't completely lack ALL kinds of empathy, we do lack one type. cognitive empathy. this would be the ability to "walk in someone else's shoes" this is the kind of empathy we miss out on, due to the way our brains are wired.

I'm not totally sure I agree with this. What about Temple Grandin's ability to see the world from the cow's perspective? She did such a superb job designing gate systems because she could mentally walk in the cow's path, so to speak, and understand what the cow was experiencing...what scared it, what made it more comfortable, and so on. Isn't this cognitive empathy?

I think I tend to struggle more with emotional empathy. What upsets another person wouldn't necessarily upset me. So I have a hard time understanding why they're upset, and what to do about it. And yet, their upset emotions greatly affect me--I can feel the pressure of their emotional chaos, and I want to fix it.

 

[Ambi]

I'm not totally sure I agree with this. What about Temple Grandin's ability to see the world from the cow's perspective? She did such a superb job designing gate systems because she could mentally walk in the cow's path, so to speak, and understand what the cow was experiencing...what scared it, what made it more comfortable, and so on. Isn't this cognitive empathy?

I think I tend to struggle more with emotional empathy. What upsets another person wouldn't necessarily upset me. So I have a hard time understanding why they're upset, and what to do about it. And yet, their upset emotions greatly affect me--I can feel the pressure of their emotional chaos, and I want to fix it.

That's very interesting - I think most people think of empathy with regards to humans, but yes, Temple Grandin has amazing empathy with animals.

 

[SusanLR]

I think I have more empathy with animals.
I take a lot of interest in understanding their ways and can feel their ways.
There are sounds that I use to communicate, but, mostly it is a connection, somewhat telepathic form of communicating.
I always joke with people, Dr. Doolittle had it right.
If you talk with the animals, then they will talk with you.

 

[Fitzo]

It's not something I tell many people, but hearing about animals being abused or hurt always upsets me far more than hearing about humans, unless I know them personally. I can see how that would seem uncaring and lacking empathy or compassion to some people. I'm more motivated to help animals than people which is why I choose to volunteer in and financially support animal welfare organizations.