Combined minds

[Shevek]

Animals and some human languages see a man on horseback as a novel creature, with the combined abilities of a horse and a man. It has the speed and power of a horse, but the mind of a man, and his throwing ability, but little dexterity. Etc. Similarly, I notice that when I'm with someone else, our abilities begin to merge. If the person as formidable, I feel physically safer, unless they are crazy or aggressive. I pick up social cues and act on them, becoming more acceptable. I might get access to transportation, or power tools, or places I would not be welcome alone. There's also just a lot of novelty, which means that very few of my "prepared statements" get used - I have to improvise on the themes, or wait for better opportunities. Basically, I think that it is impossible to "be myself" without reference to which relationship I'm being defined in. In some of them, of course, I'm just a fool in the others' eyes, often on the basis of a single disagreement. In others, I may be in high regard for things I barely notice about myself.

 

[Jumpinbare]

I haven't noticed this. With me, there is always an exchange of thoughts back and forth. Some thoughts I agree with, some I reject. There is always a since of him/her on one side and me on the other.

 

[Poppy98]

Animals and some human languages see a man on horseback as a novel creature, with the combined abilities of a horse and a man. It has the speed and power of a horse, but the mind of a man, and his throwing ability, but little dexterity. Etc. Similarly, I notice that when I'm with someone else, our abilities begin to merge. If the person as formidable, I feel physically safer, unless they are crazy or aggressive. I pick up social cues and act on them, becoming more acceptable. I might get access to transportation, or power tools, or places I would not be welcome alone. There's also just a lot of novelty, which means that very few of my "prepared statements" get used - I have to improvise on the themes, or wait for better opportunities. Basically, I think that it is impossible to "be myself" without reference to which relationship I'm being defined in. In some of them, of course, I'm just a fool in the others' eyes, often on the basis of a single disagreement. In others, I may be in high regard for things I barely notice about myself.

"Group psychology" touches on some topics like this.

People are definitely influenced by those around them.
I sometimes wonder how much of the population just doesn't tend to think regularly and just follows the herd.

 

[Shevek]

"Group psychology" touches on some topics like this.

People are definitely influenced by those around them.
I sometimes wonder how much of the population just doesn't tend to think regularly and just follows the herd.

I sometimes wonder if I'll ever find someone who is more affected by logic than by their herd. New ideas seem to have to sneak in as humor or by getting attached to something fashionable. Most discoveries have been made several times before occurring to someone who also has good teaching skills.

 

[Poppy98]

I sometimes wonder if I'll ever find someone who is more affected by logic than by their herd. New ideas seem to have to sneak in as humor or by getting attached to something fashionable. Most discoveries have been made several times before occurring to someone who also has good teaching skills.

Well the government here spends 13 years teaching people in their formative years to be mindless copycats, so maybe but maybe not here.

New ideas seem to have to sneak in as humor or by getting attached to something fashionable.

Yes, I've heard that. Did you notice that completely independently because that's a very insightful observation. Are you by any chance a historian?

 

[Poppy98]

Well the government here spends 13 years teaching people in their formative years to be mindless copycats, so maybe but maybe not here

Some to think of it, maybe that's why free speech and other various rights don't apply until you're old enough that you've been taught to forget they exist, until they gamble that you've been successfully broken.

 

[Outdated]

I sometimes wonder how much of the population just doesn't tend to think regularly and just follows the herd.

Back in the 70s this was called Sheeps and Wolves theory. Most people are sheeps, they prefer to just follow the rest of the flock instead of thinking for themselves. It's easier. Fact: if a dog chases a sheep over the edge of a cliff the rest of the flock will follow it. Wolves live much more independently, they can cooperate with others when they feel the need but generally live their own lives and do their own thinking.

This relates back to the social hierarchy malarchy. Some people really need that hierarchy in their lives, to them that is how the world is supposed to be. To these people new ideas are an anathema, they require conformity and uniformity in their world and anyone that stands out as being different either in manner of dress or way of thinking is an offence to their view of how the world should be.

Move in to the industrial and manufacturing industries and you find that the more specialised a field and the more real intelligence is required in order to do a job the less this social hierarchy is prevalent. This isn't just because people that require social hierarchy aren't as open to new ideas and new technology, it's more to do with the fact that highly skilled and talented people have healthy egos and won't allow themselves to be pushed around by a sheep. People that require that high level of social hierarchy in their world create too many divisions in the workplace and get booted out again pretty quick.

 

[Judge]

"Group psychology" touches on some topics like this.

People are definitely influenced by those around them.
I sometimes wonder how much of the population just doesn't tend to think regularly and just follows the herd.

Then consider entire cultures that process such a concept as a virtue. Whether or not it may parallel the body politic they exist in.

"But I don't understand! After all, I was only following orders."

 

[Shevek]

Well the government here spends 13 years teaching people in their formative years to be mindless copycats, so maybe but maybe not here.



Yes, I've heard that. Did you notice that completely independently because that's a very insightful observation. Are you by any chance a historian?

I don't study history for its own sake, but I know the history of innovations in the field I work in. It is a tragicomedy, but it is also outrageously wasteful.

 

[Shevek]

I haven't noticed this. With me, there is always an exchange of thoughts back and forth. Some thoughts I agree with, some I reject. There is always a since of him/her on one side and me on the other.

Do you find different aspects of yourself getting expressed with different people? Would your boss be surprised that you can talk about movies for hours, if those would be relevant examples?

 

[Misery]

I sometimes wonder how much of the population just doesn't tend to think regularly and just follows the herd.

Here's something that's occured to me recently:

In some places... including this forum... there'll be a number of people that sort of think of themselves as NOT following the herd. More independent, seeing the flaws that group-think hides from others.

But... how often, how much, is that true? Is it EVER really true?

I've often tended to think of myself in that way, since I simply dont make connections to groups in most cases, and even when get close to a given group, they often seem... busted? Corrupted? I'm not sure what word to use here. Even the seemingly positive ones often have that hidden blade that's just waiting for exactly the right trigger event before it comes out to start stabbing.

Or is that all some sort of ego or arrogance talking? Someone being like, "yeah, I'm not a part of the herd".

Sort of like how a lot of people like to believe they are very intelligent, but it isnt quite true. Some of the most absolutely braindead idiots think they are geniuses. Or someone thinks they are above average in whatever way, but it's an overblown opinion of themselves saying that, without it actually being true.

I dunno. It has me very frequently questioning a lot of ideas. I'm never quite sure what to think of any of it.


That all being said, it really is frustrating when I find someone who is REALLY deep into the hivemind. I can think of certain examples that I wont talk about directly here, but that have been very common for awhile now. The ones who are in so deep, they already drank the Kool-Aid.

Well the government here spends 13 years teaching people in their formative years to be mindless copycats, so maybe but maybe not here.

Yeah that definitely makes it all worse.

 

[Outdated]

But... how often, how much, is that true? Is it EVER really true?

I had the benefit of growing up torn between two very different herds, and as my life progressed I discovered many other herds as well. I think in a way I follow bits and pieces from many of them.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Animals and some human languages see a man on horseback as a novel creature, with the combined abilities of a horse and a man. It has the speed and power of a horse, but the mind of a man, and his throwing ability, but little dexterity. Etc. Similarly, I notice that when I'm with someone else, our abilities begin to merge. If the person as formidable, I feel physically safer, unless they are crazy or aggressive. I pick up social cues and act on them, becoming more acceptable. I might get access to transportation, or power tools, or places I would not be welcome alone. There's also just a lot of novelty, which means that very few of my "prepared statements" get used - I have to improvise on the themes, or wait for better opportunities. Basically, I think that it is impossible to "be myself" without reference to which relationship I'm being defined in. In some of them, of course, I'm just a fool in the others' eyes, often on the basis of a single disagreement. In others, I may be in high regard for things I barely notice about myself.

If I am thinking correctly, what you are describing is a phenomenon that some would call a "shared consciousness".

You mention the horse and man, it could be a dog and man, whatever... but there are times when there is not only an emotional bond, but even cases of what some would call a psychic bond where when the two are working together without any real conscious effort.

Another example is when an individual becomes part of a group, such as in church, a football game, a street protest, a political rally, whatever.

Another example might be when a husband and wife, life partners, good friends, or siblings have an emotional and mental bond.

 

[Shevek]

If I am thinking correctly, what you are describing is a phenomenon that some would call a "shared consciousness".

You mention the horse and man, it could be a dog and man, whatever... but there are times when there is not only an emotional bond, but even cases of what some would call a psychic bond where when the two are working together without any real conscious effort.

Another example is when an individual becomes part of a group, such as in church, a football game, a street protest, a political rally, whatever.

Another example might be when a husband and wife, life partners, good friends, or siblings have an emotional and mental bond.

Aye, when a dog and a man are both using their brains in a team, it is quite wonderful. Dogs can herd sheep, track missing persons, or help with hunting in a dozen ways, and they love to use their talents to help. I feel sad for all the dog-human pairs where the human wants to do all the thinking. A wolf and a raven make a great team too. Large human organizations sometimes seem to develop a mind of their own. The bureaucracies of both India and Russia survived radical changes in government. Obsolete industries may have become worse than useless, but their momentum keeps them energetic for decades. In many cultures, people think of themselves primarily as a member of a family, or an army, rather than an individual, to the point of dying for a cause.

 

[Jumpinbare]

Do you find different aspects of yourself getting expressed with different people? Would your boss be surprised that you can talk about movies for hours, if those would be relevant examples?

Only to the extent where I have learned who shares my interests and who doesn't. I have learned not to infodump on the people who don't share my interest.