Class/Meeting Participation

[cherryq]

Hi All,

My first graduate class was this evening, and I have very quickly realized something: I'm not very prepared for the graduate classroom setting. The class involves some seminar-type lecturing, which is okay because I can quickly take notes on my laptop. However, there's also a lot of student-based discussion on the topic and about current events. I found that I had a lot to say but that I couldn't actually voice my thoughts in class. I'm not very good at being assertive, but even when I tried, someone would end up talking over me. The only way that I've determined that someone is finished speaking is when there is a long pause (and even then I accidentally interrupt them). I wait for that pause in order to know when to speak up with an opinion, etc. Unfortunately, the other students in the discussions seemed to know ahead of time that the person speaking was finished. There were barely any gaps in the conversation and I felt at a loss for how to voice my thoughts. I'm worried that if this keeps up that my participation grade will bring my overall average down.

Has anyone encountered situations like this in classes or meetings, and if so, how did you overcome this? I would really like to prove to my professor that I have important thoughts on the subjects discussed but she'll never know that if I don't find a way to speak up during the in-class discussions.

Thanks.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

Hi All,

My first graduate class was this evening, and I have very quickly realized something: I'm not very prepared for the graduate classroom setting. The class involves some seminar-type lecturing, which is okay because I can quickly take notes on my laptop. However, there's also a lot of student-based discussion on the topic and about current events. I found that I had a lot to say but that I couldn't actually voice my thoughts in class. I'm not very good at being assertive, but even when I tried, someone would end up talking over me. The only way that I've determined that someone is finished speaking is when there is a long pause (and even then I accidentally interrupt them). I wait for that pause in order to know when to speak up with an opinion, etc. Unfortunately, the other students in the discussions seemed to know ahead of time that the person speaking was finished. There were barely any gaps in the conversation and I felt at a loss for how to voice my thoughts. I'm worried that if this keeps up that my participation grade will bring my overall average down.

Has anyone encountered situations like this in classes or meetings, and if so, how did you overcome this? I would really like to prove to my professor that I have important thoughts on the subjects discussed but she'll never know that if I don't find a way to speak up during the in-class discussions.

Thanks.

Yep.

Grad school is nasty, from an aspie perspective, because regardless of what subject you take, the object is to work with other people, especially people you don't like, respect, or agree with. Or even know how to talk to.

One of the communication skills that the group has to learn is how to provide space for the silent. Silence never says nothing, but interpreting it can be very tricky, because listening to silence means empathy and compassion are working together. It's common for people to get it wrong at first, to not hear when a silence is final, or not-final.

Your challenge is figuring out how to speak up, and to pull this off, you may have to ask the group, in public, to work on this problem as a group. It's not just your problem. It is now all-of-you.

I was in a publicly antagonistic situation with one of the cohort in grad school, someone who thought that she needed to battle me because her subgroup thought I talked too much. The professors let us fight it out. I won--and I quit. The cohort failed both of us, because the object is to find a way to give hard words a space to be and to breathe, to be safe in the saying of them, and to find a way through because the professors make it as hard as possible to find a way "out."

What made things really aggravating for me was that I could solve problems accurately faster alone, but was forced to work with a group, and the group wasn't pulling its own weight. I solved several problems and proved them--but the proofs were invalid because people who hadn't done the readings didn't get them, couldn't present or support presentations of them, and I got fed up.

I wish I had that degree now, but it wasn't worth what it was costing me. And I don't mean in money.

Stick it out. You will learn something from this, but it's probably not what the curriculum suggests. Go the distance, as long as you can, without hurting yourself.

Regards & respect,
A4H

 

[Datura]

I have no experience in a graduate classroom, but have served on boards and participated in discussion groups. I always found these setting to be fairly structured so that everybody had an opportunity to say what they wanted. Would I be correct in gaging that graduate classrooms are a bit more chaotic?

I have always struggled with unstructured group conversations, and find that sometimes you just have to be a bit of a jerk. If people are constantly talking over you then you might have to just keep talking, but louder, until they get the idea. Something else I have found that works is a more passive-aggressive approach, where you start talking, get interrupeted, and then just cock your head and stare at the person who interrupted you. Usually they will catch on and appologise.

These tactics may not be the best way to make friends, but they do help a person make a point.

 

[BlueConundrum]

I struggled with this all through college and grad school. The only way I found around it was if I came prepared with a short list of things to say, generally about whatever the reading assignment was. I would try to formulate philosophical questions. "How does X relate to Y?" "I noticed this contradictory statement." It's hard, but it gets better with practice.

 

[NTgirl4276]

hi cherryq, i completed my graduate coursework a year ago and am now in the dissertation stage of my PhD. I spent four years in the seminar-style courses that you describe. if you want to PM me, I'd love to talk to you more about it

.... I'd respond here, but I'm afraid I'd write too much

 

[AsheSkyler]

In every class I ever had where the students were expected to talk, they just sat there like bumps on a log when the teachers were asking questions and then when it was quiet time for us to do our assignments they would talk at the top of their lungs to each other, blast music and movies from their work stations, and general chaos would ensue. I have nothing relevant either. And definitely step outside when the chaos starts getting a bit much, I nearly decked a person who decided to touch my shoulder at a very bad time.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

I also struggled with this though out my degrees. I generally have a lot to say but to begin with I had problems knowing when to talk, and with people speaking over me. Unfortunately I have no really valuable advise, as the only solution to this problem I have found is to be 'assertive' (ie. a twat) and start talking when there is a pause, and continue talking loudly over anyone else who is also trying to talk until they shut up. I normally wait until some time has passed until I do this, as after about half an hour my frustration with other peoples stupidity helps overcome my natural quiet and polite (doormat) personality.

You might also consider talking to the teachers, telling them your problem and see if they would be willing to slightly adapt in in order to help you. Asking the students to stand up when they speak so you know when they are finished (when they sit down) or having them put their hands up when they want to speak (it may feel like you're back at school, but it solves the battle-to-be-heard problem).

What made things really aggravating for me was that I could solve problems accurately faster alone, but was forced to work with a group, and the group wasn't pulling its own weight.
A4H

Ah yes, group work, the plague of every under and post grads life. However hard you try there will always be at least one useless idiot dragging the whole group down and benefiting from your hard work. I find that peoples reactions to the announcement of a group project is very indicative of the sort of student they are. Avoid the ones that are happy about it if at all possible, they will probably spend the entire time sitting around complaining and then boast about the excellent mark they received, failing to mention that they did no work at all and only got a decent grade because every else worked twice as hard to make up for their uselessness. ... Am I bitter? No, of course not!!

 

[Progster]

Yes, I've been in this situation, too. It wasn't such a big problem back then, because we weren't graded on seminar participation or groupwork, but on exams and assignments. I do have this problem in social situations, though, and I've learned that the only way to ever be heard it to be very assertive and talk loudly over the top of them, and not feel bad about it, because, after all, that's exactly what they are doing to you. The only problem is that because this makes me angry, I tend to shout, and that's not very helpful, either.

You could also have a word with the person conducting the seminars about the issue, so they can make sure you get to speak when you want to say something, and be more lenient when it comes to grading. A good teacher makes sure that all students get a chance to speak.

 

[ancusmitis]

One thing I noticed when I was hanging out with an anarchist group was that they had one person act as facilitator, who would basically lead the meeting, one person who kept stack (which meant that you would signal that person and they would place you in a queue) and another vibes watcher, who would look at body language to see how people are interacting and to try and help everyone get along with each other.

 

[Aspieistj]

I absolutely hated being forced to work in groups, but there was no way to avoid it. I am very good at writing and usually managed to be the designated composer of any finished project. I had to include all participants but I was able to organize and phrase the finished paper. It was obvious that I was really good at what I did and I usually succeeded in doing what I really did well and get at least that part of the project a high grade. I was always prepared and always read all of any required reading. On written tests I could always do well because I was such a dedicated student. The instructor soon learned that I was a very good student and could see what I had been able to provide to any group assignment. I kept a low profile and never tried to steal the show. Most instructors could see that I was well prepared and did all the preparation and participation that was required. It helped me enormously because I traveled to and from the class with my immediate supervisor from work. She was also a good student and realized that by working together we formed a symbiotic relationship. She was an NT and very well liked and I was very fortunate to be able to buddy with her. I was always prepared and always wanted to participate in class because I loved being a good student. I had to keep this part of me quite low key. However, a decent instructor quickly learns which students are honestly working to do well and I usually felt a connection with them. I never spent a lot of time chatting or doing anything that would look like being an ass kisser to the prof and that meant that I had to reign myself in a lot. I love to learn and am extremely grateful that I am able to do well academically. The profs probably could tell that I enjoyed their classes. I had very little close contact with any other student other than my boss because I have prosopagnosia and rarely could recognize anyone if he or she moved out of our usual seats. My boss had wonderful people skills and I sort of rode her coattail. Together, we made a great pair and I loved it when we were both assigned to a task. If was a lot more difficult for me when we worked in larger groups. Fortunately, no instructor ever insisted that I couldn't work with my boss except for a few times when we were randomly assigned to work groups. Only once were she and I stuck with a few other people who had little interest in aiming for the highest possible grades. After graduation, I happened to talk with my advisor and I told her how disappointed I was with the group grade I had received in that one course. She told me privately that my boss and I deserved far better grades than the rest of our group and that she had even asked the dean if we could be graded according to out efforts, rather than be forced to accept a group grade. The dean said that the method of making us work with people we might prefer not to have to depend on was a good lesson in the "real" work environment and that the grades would stand. That one damn course grade knocked me out of the summa cum laude honor upon graduation and I received the magna cum laude honor in stead. I didn't even bother to attend the graduation ceremonies because I was so disappointed. I guess the dean was correct when she said that group work and grades were a reality in life because working as a nurse is very much a team effort and there are a lot of foot draggers who are usually "good enough" to remain working, but make life nasty for those who are willing to aim high. In nursing, it is the poor patient who suffers.

 

[bkind]

One thing I noticed when I was hanging out with an anarchist group was that they had one person act as facilitator, who would basically lead the meeting, one person who kept stack (which meant that you would signal that person and they would place you in a queue) and another vibes watcher, who would look at body language to see how people are interacting and to try and help everyone get along with each other.

That's a brilliant format.

 

[cherryq]

Thank you for your responses! So basically I'm thinking I just need to learn how to be assertive (which seems to be very close to interrupting people). Not interrupting people has been something drilled into me since I was a kid (endless sentence writing helped with that quite a bit--perhaps it was the repetitiveness), so I expect it will be hard for me to overcome.

Also, I would love to talk to my prof about the issue, but I'm not really sure how to bring it up. *sigh*

 

[asd8513]

Dont worry i also lack assertiveness. I just dont like confrontation

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Also, I would love to talk to my prof about the issue, but I'm not really sure how to bring it up. *sigh*

Does your prof know you have ASD? Do you have a mentor? When I needed to talk to a lecturer about an ASD related problem last year I asked my mentor to accompany me, she arrived at the end of my lecture and basically talked to the lecturer for me while I hovered nervously in the background trying not to stim too obviously. If I'm remembering correctly she got straight to the point, something along the lines of "Hello, do you have a moment? Are you aware that ... has aspergers syndrome? Well as such she has problems with ... and we would really appreciate it if you could try to adapt your lectures in the following ways." It was terribly embarrassing but he was very agreeable and adapted his sessions as asked, which was a huge help.