Aspergers, Autism, and Trauma

[DogwoodTree]

Really more the first one. In other words, to what extent is having AS (in all its myriad forms) a traumatizing experience in our world? Thanks for asking this, too.

For me, I think the hardest part is just feeling so alone...isolated...separate...even when there are people all around me. It's very rare that I feel like I've "connected" with anyone to any depth at all, and when I do, I feel so desperate and violated and panicked and hungry...all at the same time. I always thought living on a deserted island would be easier...at least then I wouldn't have any expectations of connecting with anyone.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Thank you for sharing this. Makes me wonder what "the event" was. But that's for you to tell or not tell, as you deem appropriate. At any rate, your statement above makes me wonder whether AS and many other conditions/situations make people more susceptible to trauma or more fragile or something. Does that make sense?

Very possible. AS can aggravate it, no doubt about that.

Let's say hypothetically, there's a kid getting bullied on the playground by most of the kids. His sensory issues makes getting beat even more painful for him than normal kids getting beat, so his bullies and their supporters say he's weak and pathetic for saying it hurt so much, and not only use whatever dumb reason they're attacking him as an excuse to pound him they then also use his sensitivities as further justification to "make him stronger" (or kill him, I never rule out among humans the old animal instinct to cull the herd so the breed stays strong), and generally tell him not only is it supposed to hurt, he's supposed to enjoy it because he deserves it, and it's the only way he'll become a better person. And then the rest of the playground says it's wrong and pushes for him to defend himself. And since adults are idiots, the teachers turn a blind eye to the bullying because "boys will be boys" and their behavior is deemed social acceptable, and if he fights back then the whole lot of them get heavily punished for fighting and the bullies will target him even more harshly in the future. Now let's say he also had a typical sibling who often fought with him as children, so he already had a greater dislike for getting his butt kicked in the first place, even though in that case it doesn't bother him as bad because he does have legal grounds to call them out on it and get some help if he so chooses.

Because he's more physically sensitive than others, it hurts more, and that's the main AS component. Because it is a prolonged problem he already has a history with, he can't just walk it off like when he runs into a tree or something even though that hurts a lot too. Because there is a verbal component from both halves of the playground and the teachers, he has echoes or strong flashbacks of the two major opinions playing in his head over and over as the two factions argue with each other that makes his gut wrench as it is no longer a simple case of him not liking it, it now has greater moral and social implications, so he has the pressure to stand his ground and withstand the dissatisfaction he will invariably trigger from those of the opposing viewpoint he picks. And then there is the problem with shoddy authority picking the wrong side because his situation is in the minority and they'd rather side with the majority. And when those compounding flashbacks and dilemmas hit him in full force he huddles in a corner because there are so many overwhelmingly strong emotions both in himself and being forced on him by all the people he's dealt with on the subject from his sibling to the bullies to the teachers to the rest of the playground, and the only thing holding him together is the desire to implode and explode cancelling each other out and putting equal pressure on his emotions and holding them in place. Perhaps as an autistic person he misunderstood something in there, but some messages are pretty hard to miss when told quite bluntly "it's supposed to hurt and you're supposed to like it" from one party and the other says "it's your duty to let it happen to you".

And that's pretty much what I went through and still go through on occasion when my bad memories hit, but on a different subject. AS sensory issues and AS vivid memories coupled with a bad situation people find socially acceptable based on who who's doing it to you regardless of any research saying otherwise and being told you should like it because everybody says you should. Bah.

 

[King_Oni]

I appreciate your describing this experience. It's like "pre-traumatic stress," in a sense. Does this seem right?

Oh, in a sense it is. Pre-traumatic, yet it ended up like that because of bad experiences I already had. It's not like I'm expecting certain things to be an issue without any experiences prior to how I feel about it.

 

[Kari Suttle]

For me, I think the hardest part is just feeling so alone...isolated...separate...even when there are people all around me. It's very rare that I feel like I've "connected" with anyone to any depth at all, and when I do, I feel so desperate and violated and panicked and hungry...all at the same time. I always thought living on a deserted island would be easier...at least then I wouldn't have any expectations of connecting with anyone.

I agree with what dogwood said. I think growing up feeling so isolated made a lasting impression in and of itself. Always having supposedly happy, friendly, hopeful interactions with peers fall through for reasons totally unknown, never having anyone to talk to or play with on the playground, as a kid that's rough. The loneliness and isolation caused by AS itself wouldn't be traumatizing, i think, but it would certainly leave a lasting affect.

 

[Dan Metevier]

Oh, in a sense it is. Pre-traumatic, yet it ended up like that because of bad experiences I already had. It's not like I'm expecting certain things to be an issue without any experiences prior to how I feel about it.

Yes, I think I get it. You have had bad experiences and anticipate more, then they do happen. It's not an illusion or paranoia, but real fear of real stuff that happens. So both pre- and post. Must make you crazy!

 

[Dan Metevier]

It's very rare that I feel like I've "connected" with anyone to any depth at all, and when I do, I feel so desperate and violated and panicked and hungry...all at the same time.

Feel like you're all alone in the world, I imagine. I hope you find someone, even one person, with whom you can connect in an authentic way. Thanks for sharing yourself.

 

[Dan Metevier]

AS sensory issues and AS vivid memories coupled with a bad situation people find socially acceptable based on who who's doing it to you regardless of any research saying otherwise and being told you should like it because everybody says you should

I so much appreciate your story. It says a lot, about your resilience, about the Catch-22 (double bind) you find yourself in again and again, the attitude of the teachers, etc. Thank you for sharing this. It really helps me understand.

 

[epath13]

I think some of the symptoms can be experienced by people with Autism regardless of whether they have experienced trauma or not. Causes of those behaviors are different even though they may interlap. I think for some therapists and patients it might be hard to identify the real causes and, therefore, provide the right treatment. In my opinion, many therapist's and patients on the spectrum fall into a trap when trying to resolve trauma and manage symptoms that it appears to cause, but instead therapists just run around in circles and patients keep dwelling on the problems instead of solving them. I know it from personal experience, when my therapists were trying to dig into the issues and resolve them by addressing them, when all I actually needed is to learn how to function: organize myself: my thoughts and actions, pinpoint sensory triggers and learn how to withdraw on time, learning the possible consequences of actions, learning how relationships work etc. So instead of solving problems I spent years on useless talking. I think it's always important to have a very clear understanding of what the problem really is and solve exactly that problem, not what the problem is supposed to be.

 

[Dan Metevier]

when all I actually needed is to learn how to function: organize myself: my thoughts and actions, pinpoint sensory triggers and learn how to withdraw on time, learning the possible consequences of actions, learning how relationships work etc.

Your needs sound familiar and I'm sorry you did not have a therapist that was able to "get" what you needed. While I want to continue to be careful about not doing online therapy here, you may wish to look at a book on a topic called "Dialectical Behavior Therapy." This method was originally developed to treat people who had been labeled "Borderline Personality Disorder," but has been found useful for other people as well. Here is a link to a workbook that one might use to work through many of the issues you mentioned: . You may find this helpful or you may not. Just a thought. Let me know what you think either way. And thanks for sharing your story.

 

[LilyJo]

Hi Dan, I have the works of those symptoms plus dissociative ones also. I had a not so nice childhood by anyone's standard courtesy of my family however I do think that my autistic traits made it worse. I do wonder if being on the so called milder end of the spectrum didn't help. Not only was I making all sorts of social errors I was also acutely aware that I was making mistakes with no idea what I was doing wrong. My sensory sensitivities make being hit hurt more, being shouted at is physically painful for me, bright lighting esp fluorescent makes me buzz inside and coping with anything even slightly challenging under those conditions is nearly impossible. It frequently takes me 2-3hours to calm myself down sufficiently so I can sleep. If anything changes that requires me to alter what I had planned for the day I frequently end up depersonalised or derealised for several hours. This seems to be the only way to stop myself completely overloading and shutting down.

I am constantly monitoring my behaviour and rerunning previous situations analysing what was said and the reaction to my responses. I rehearse any alterations to that scenario so I can be prepared if it occurs again. It is exhausting but far better than being stuck in a situation with no idea what to say or do whilst being able to feel the expectations other people. I also feel alone in a crowd.

To give you some idea of how a normal situation maybe made worse by AS. At school I used to get in trouble for asking questions of the teachers because I had missed information. This used to be a fairly publically degrading experience whilst they made me a public example. I guess they thought I hadn't been paying attention... Despite concentrating as hard as i could, My brain gets stuck on the musical qualities of specific words playing them over in my head meaning I miss parts of what is said. The fluorescent lighting flickers and hums and the close proximity and noise of the other children was distracting. I may also still be internally replaying some other situation that had happened just before the lesson. I am unable to fully move on until the previous problem is resolved.

I hope this answers your question! LJ

 

[Dan Metevier]

I hope this answers your question!

LJ, thanks so much! Very interesting to me. Many of your experiences resemble those of someone who has suffered trauma, which tends to alter the way the brain processes internal and external experiences. In a sense, you came pre-packaged (factory-equipped?) with some of the brain alterations that occur during trauma and make someone have dissociative experiences, emotional flooding, and other stuff like you describe. Add actual trauma on top of that and what do you get? Hmm. I shudder (literally) to think. Thanks again for sharing your story. Very helpful.

 

[Dan Metevier]

Here is a link to a workbook

By the way, I am in no way associated with Amazon.com or the authors or publishers of this book. I just like to work with it with clients for whom it seems appropriate.

 

[LilyJo]

I would say that could be true. I've always thought of myself as missing a filter for sensory/emotional information. I notice/feel it all with no idea what is important!

I would like to thankyou Dan (along with any other NTs on this forum) for showing an interest in our world. It makes me feel a little more hopeful that I may be able to someday be accepted for who I actually am rather than the front I have been forced to live behind to get along in this world.

All the best LJ

 

[Kari Suttle]

In a sense, you came pre-packaged (factory-equipped?) with some of the brain alterations that occur during trauma and make someone have dissociative experiences, emotional flooding, and other stuff like you describe.

I have to ask cause now i'm curious...what're disassociative experiences and emotional flooding?

I've always thought of myself as missing a filter for sensory/emotional information.

Same here. Sound is my biggie - i hear everything regardless of whether or not its important or not. This led to many a daily anxiety attack when i first started my current job as a cashier. Registers and hand scanners beeping, cart wheels squeaking, people talking, kids yelling, items being slammed onto the belt, conversations several registers away. Eventually i learned to use hyperfocusing to my advantage and just focused on my customer and that was it. Scripting entire conversations helped with the social aspect of the job once i picked it up by listening to said conversations several registers away.

 

[tia_darcy]

I was diagnosed with PTSD and aspergers officially 2 years ago. I am now 63 years old. I suspect many people, like myself, who have aspergers allied with a high IQ, might get by through life (even though it is a struggle) without a diagnosis. Because of my age there was no diagnosis and I was just labelled as odd. I didn't realise I could not assess social situations properly or read peoples motives/expressions and at 17 put myself in a dangerous situation. I suspect there may be low level PTSD for many people who have autism but I think in the older generation there could be many who are undiagnosed with aspergers who also have PTSD from a trauma where they didnt realise they were in danger.

 

[Dan Metevier]

It makes me feel a little more hopeful that I may be able to someday be accepted for who I actually am rather than the front I have been forced to live behind to get along in this world.

LJ, in my mind that statement could have been made by any human being. I believe we all learn to live behind a front in order to get along in this world. Even us "neuro-typicals" (definitely this one). There is a great tension in our lives between being who we are (whatever that might be) and being someone who is acceptable to others. It can be a balancing act, or it can go out of balance, one way or the other. This is not to discount your particular experience and struggles. This is to let you know that you are not alone in this struggle. I join you in this struggle, though in my own unique way. I wish you the best with yours.

 

[Dan Metevier]

I have to ask cause now i'm curious...what're disassociative experiences and emotional flooding?

Sorry, Kari, for the psychobabble. Dissociative just means that your mind goes blank, like you're not really there, so to speak. The lights are off and no one is home. One might have this kind of experience while drinking heavily, where they have a memory "blackout" afterwards. Or it might be a survival mechanism that allows a person not to have to experience something particularly painful or overwhelming.

Emotional flooding means just what it sounds like. One gets so filled with an emotion (anger, fear, etc.) that they're not able to function effectively. Typically, this requires a "cool down" period to return to a state where one can function OK.

I hope that helps. If not, I'll take another go at it. Sorry! Thanks for asking.

 

[Dan Metevier]

All the best LJ

BTW, welcome!

 

[Dan Metevier]

aspergers allied with a high IQ

One thing we don't think of much in our society is that, while there are plenty of accommodations made for people of low IQ ("poor them"), there are few, if any, accommodations made for people of high IQ. The latter don't fit into this society, which is oriented toward "average" IQ people, any better than the former. Just a thought.

 

[Dan Metevier]

I suspect there may be low level PTSD for many people who have autism but I think in the older generation there could be many who are undiagnosed with aspergers who also have PTSD from a trauma where they didnt realise they were in danger.

I am beginning to agree with this as I read more of what is being written in this thread and others. It seems that aspergers (at least in some) may turn down or turn off the part of the brain that "normally" signals danger, leaving that person without much of a first line of defense. Back in the day, so to speak, people were not aware of this possibility so parents and others didn't even think of providing this line of defense on behalf of their children (not to make excuses). Does all this sound right?