an aspergers society

[Anonymous]

So I recently read this blog (The Asperger’s / autism spectrum ~ the next evolutionary step?), and it raised some interesting points. What if aspergers was the next step in evolution? But I'm a little more interested in the society.

If we had a society where the autics and aspies were the majority, and our traits were encouraged, and the neurotypical were the ones trying to fit it, what would this society look like? Has a society like this ever happened? Are there currently being developed? How would our differences from normal people serve us in society and change our society?

If there were a society like this how many people would be interested? Where we wouldn't have to hide or fit in. How would this effect our confidence, and our behavior that has resulted from generally being not as supported by society? Perhaps if this was just seen as a retreat for a little while before returning to our usual homes?

I'm just interested in this topic in general if anyone has something to say on the subject.

 

[ZebraAutismo]

Interesting but I need support from NTs with anxiety and things. Although maybe the world would be more adapted for us.

 

[WittyAspie]

There was a thread similar to this one not too long ago but I was unable to find it.

I have wondered recently what it would be like if ASD people gathered together in cities/communities the way many other minority groups do. The ASD neighborhood would definitely have a different feel to it.

-the layout would be logical
-Internet speeds would be phenomenal (be necessity)
-stores would be quiet and low-key
-sidewalks would be free of litter
-the dwellings would be small, designed for 1-2 people max, because we have problems with relationships which would lead to such a small population replacement that our neighborhood would revert to a majority of NTs in one generation

 

[SusanLR]

I remember the other post also, but, couldn't find it.
I am interested in the creation of communities for us that wouldn't be taken over by NT's because it would be rather like the senior and Assisted Living communities where you could live with fellow auties and aspies that were maturing or disabled and need a place to live.

It would be designed to our desires with small independent homes and assisted group living areas for those who need it. A quiet association in a wooded area by a lake for example.
We wouldn't have to worry about NTs taking over as it would be a place for us exclusive to go to from anywhere around as we mature, so there would always be more joining as time goes by.

There are senior living areas everywhere so the demand is great. Just make some of them for specialised groups like us, same as they have specialised schools for the kids.
There are more ASD people than ever before.
The world is starting to realize this too.
It is a good idea, I think. Just getting it to jump start is always a bit difficult for anything new like this idea.

 

[Suiseiseki]

A next step in evolution is a successful one, we are not a success because we breed so much less.
That goes against the entire idea of evolution.

We are not special.

 

[FreeDiver]

A next step in evolution is a successful one, we are not a success because we breed so much less.
That goes against the entire idea of evolution.

We are not special.

I don't know. With the world being dangerously overpopulated today as it is. It would make sense for evolution to start breeding less to stop us from destroying ourselves from consuming all of our resources.

 

[pjcnet]

I don't know. With the world being dangerously overpopulated today as it is. It would make sense for evolution to start breeding less to stop us from destroying ourselves from consuming all of our resources.

Well they might have found a genetic link to autism, but having an autistic Mum and/or Dad isn't even listed as a factor that increases the likeliness of having an autistic child in an article I've read, so I wonder, if you're autistic are you more likely to have autistic offspring? If not I'm not sure whether this rules out possible evolution anyway. Please click here for the article.

 

[Anonymous]

Well they might have found a genetic link to autism, but having an autistic Mum and/or Dad isn't even listed as a factor that increases the likeliness of having an autistic child in an article I've read, so I wonder, if you're autistic are you more likely to have autistic offspring? If not I'm not sure whether this rules out possible evolution anyway. Please click here for the article

For the article and the discussion of evolution, I find that their are several factors that should be brought up. Firstly, I don’t believe that there has been research on this, but does it matter where the genetic mutation comes from in evolution, as long as it’s there in any species? And I’m not sure about this but I don’t think there is much research going on as far as to how many people with autism produce kids with autism anyway. It may be underreseached and therefore we cannot from conclusions from too little data. The article was also talking about likelihood of any parents to have kids on the spectrum and I don’t believe that wheather or not the parents showed traits was part of what they looked for, so under-researched

I may have gone off topic from what you said because I read the article right before posting and had it in mind

 

[Ming of Mongo]

To say that we are the next step in evolution, may be a bit grandiose, but we do seem to be the ones adapted to deal with technology. We see the world more concretely, and NTs see it more animistically.

 

[Suiseiseki]

I don't know. With the world being dangerously overpopulated today as it is. It would make sense for evolution to start breeding less to stop us from destroying ourselves from consuming all of our resources.

Yeah though if I had the means and the right person I'd want a huge family.
Evolution has no concept of what is going on across the world, evolution is based on where something is, that is why bats in south america are vastly different then ones in north america.

 

[Anonymous]

Evolution does have a science of what is going on across the world in a way. Many people travel internationally and the overall population mixes worldwide. Theoretically at least, and their isn’t much theory to test this so differences here are only in opinion. As well as the fact that many issues of society today are global. As well as evolution based on typically how many people survive and succeed rather than how often you breed as well. This can be culturally as well. Like how if you were raised in one culture, say North Korea where you are RAISED to hate everyone else, you are going to spread the concept to those around you, and typically across all species like breeds with like, so I guess I’m saying you can spread your heritage just by being influential. My theory is that if we had a society where we were the majority and did typically discouraged autism behaviors, neurotypicals would try to fit in with us, like we do with them, and seek out mates who act like they do. I think I got side tracked. Is this on topic?

 

[DuckRabbit]

I don't know. With the world being dangerously overpopulated today as it is. It would make sense for evolution to start breeding less to stop us from destroying ourselves from consuming all of our resources.

Maybe the Asperger penchant for breeding less is balanced out by Aspergers being less sensation-seeking and less thrill-seeking than NTs. Perhaps on average NTs are killed off in greater numbers by their greater risk-taking behaviours (accidents, wars, overdrinking, STDs etc), whereas on average Aspergers are more likely to be conserved because they have a greater capacity for sensory overload, so their threshold for risk and thrills is so much lower; they are less likely to die prematurely.

 

[DuckRabbit]

If we had a society where the autics and aspies were the majority, and our traits were encouraged, and the neurotypical were the ones trying to fit it, what would this society look like? Has a society like this ever happened? Are there currently being developed? How would our differences from normal people serve us in society and change our society?

An interesting question. I think there might be similar levels of bullying and abuse as Aspergers would soon deride and devalue NTs for their differentness, such as being unable to stay on their own for long, for not being systematising whizzes at computers and maths, for adulating celebrities and trying to copy them, for being unable to resist the latest cultural trends - the ones that signal 'I have high social status' (big car, right postcode, latest celebrity cookery book on bookshelf, management-or CEO- level job).

I remember seeing a white ASD guy on the UK 'First Dates' TV programme. He was paired with a lovely black woman. When he asked her what type of music she liked, she replied "Everything" and he held his head and bemoaned her lack of discernment "No! No! No!" - he had some fixed idea in his mind of what 'discerning music taste' looked like. He had manoeuvred things so that he was more discerning about music than her... he had the power. He gave her the low-down on why the particular music he liked was best. I think she was right to turn him down at the end. He shouldn't have tried to use 'musical tastes' to put her down. Perhaps she had a greater knowledge of all music types than him - if he'd just remained humble and open, he might have learnt something about music from her.

So I think the 'currency' that we use to evaluate people would just change, I don't think it would necessarily be a less status-driven or power-mongering society than we currently have; just the bases of having status and power would change. Although maybe not... Money is supposed to react like cocaine on the brain --- would the hardwiring of ASD individuals necessarily be immune to that? We are living in a physical world after all, where physical security is a levelling currency for everyone - we all have to eat, keep warm, keep safe, keep comfortable, sustain ourselves in old age... Is there anything in the hardwiring of Aspergers that would predispose them to being less greedy (or security-seeking) than NTs?

 

[DuckRabbit]

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.” ― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

... extrapolating from this idea: Perhaps in some parallel universe Aspergers are the majority and NTs the minority, struggling to fit in and prove their worth to society, and on the NTsCentral forum (which might well be NATsCentral for neuro-atypicals), someone posed the question about what society would look like if NTs (NATs) were in charge. The world we're currently living in may be the physical manifestation of that thought experiment.

 

[Anonymous]

An interesting question. I think there might be similar levels of bullying and abuse as Aspergers would soon deride and devalue NTs for their differentness, such as being unable to stay on their own for long, for not being systematising whizzes at computers and maths, for adulating celebrities and trying to copy them, for being unable to resist the latest cultural trends - the ones that signal 'I have high social status'

don't we already do this though?

 

[DuckRabbit]

I guess we do. It's part of the human condition - whether NT or ASD - to seek out positive distinctiveness and find scores on which to devalue the outgroup. The difference between the status quo (NT majority) and the hypothetical scenario (Asperger majority) is that currently NT values, interests, habits, desires and thresholds are arguably still the dominant, trendy ones. ASD values, interests, habits, desires and thresholds are still not in vogue. Do you think they are becoming more so, with increased awareness of neurodiversity? Perhaps it's too soon to tell?

 

[midlife aspie]

There already is a fictional society as such. There are several novels out there that can educate one about the cultural mores of the planet 'Vulcan'. Peace and long life to you all!

 

[Desiree W]

If I could start a community or a shopping mall, I name it Aspie World or Aspie Land. There would be a stimming area where people can feel free to stim as long as they're not harming anyone. I like pacing, so they'll have to be enough walking room. There would be quiet areas for people who can't stand noise and areas where there would be music for those who like music.

 

[WittyAspie]

Maybe I am that outlier here but I breed often and I do it well. I have a shocking success rate.

If anyone cares at least half my kids are autistic. The youngest is too young to know, but the way he scares at a leaf has me suspicious.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I guess we do. It's part of the human condition - whether NT or ASD - to seek out positive distinctiveness and find scores on which to devalue the outgroup. The difference between the status quo (NT majority) and the hypothetical scenario (Asperger majority) is that currently NT values, interests, habits, desires and thresholds are arguably still the dominant, trendy ones. ASD values, interests, habits, desires and thresholds are still not in vogue. Do you think they are becoming more so, with increased awareness of neurodiversity? Perhaps it's too soon to tell?

Contd.

We are all human, whether AS or NT, and subject to the same frailties. There will always be an Animal Farm situation where everyone is equal but some are more equal than others, whether in an AS or NT 'club'. Best would be an equal mix of both. The lessons for both are acceptance, tolerance, kindness and respect. Sounds very preachy but there is never going to be peaceful coexistence. It's the human condition.

The thing to strive to avoid is one group dominating and devaluing another. This is where we have to use our intelligence to avoid the psychological pitfalls of favouring our own ingroup at the expense of the outgroup. Hard to do when the one group is being unconscious, unethical or immoral in some areas of life, as the outgroup sees it. But it's like the issue in earlier eras in some societies of men being valued over women and women being dominated and devalued: as 'irksome' as it can be to deal with differentness, we would be worse off over all if we had all men and didn't have the variation and virtues (strengths) that women provide. Similarly, if we had all humans on the planet and no animals, our lives would be impoverished. We have a long way to go until we start treating animals as an ingroup. At present, society tends to view them as the same as us when it suits us (companions, assistants) and different from us also when it suits us (eating them).