Jail broken device ?

[GoofKing]

Have you ever jail broken a device like an Ipod Touch or PSP or even your smart phone ?

I jail broke my PSP the other day which was surprisingly simple actually as I though it would be a lot more harder and would involve a Pandora battery and etc. I've gotten it to where it runs Custom Firm-Ware and home-brew applications as well as emulators and etc.

Does it matter if Sony or any other company get's pissed off about this ? If I was in charge of Sony, I'd make some sort of GNU-Like license that makes it alright for people to make home-brew applications as long they don't sell it, or maybe they could sell it as long as they give the user the same freedom. I guess it depends on how much GNU-like I'll make it. This will keep the PSP alive and selling as well as make some extra cash ...

 

[King_Oni]

The thing with jailbreaks is most likely that it's a legal issue where you use the device for other reasons that intended. A lot of these companies pretty much state that you must use the OS that comes with it. However, most consumers just do whatever they want with their devices and it's not something they in general, will take legal matters over. I mean; and I don't know if this is the same in the US, but over here Coca cola actually has fine print on the bottle here that says their bottles are only meant to hold Coca cola and the bottles, despite paying for them, are still property of Coca cola. Technically, you'd be breaking "terms of use" if you put water in such a bottle.

It doesn't matter if Sony gets pissed off at this, what matters is the day they decide they will actually take it to court, granted the fine print of the user agreement and such will cover this.

What's also relevant to note with jailbreaking and thus using software that might not be certified by Sony or whatever, is that it's a warranty issue. Some people who jailbreak these devices know they void warranty by doing this, but some people do this and think that it's perfectly normal and if the device breaks when you fail in doing a proper jailbreak and pretty much brick the device, that they are entitled to a new one since it broke.

That being said; I don't think it's a bad idea to have a open source development kit for people to use on a PSP, though I don't know how much damage it could do to a PSP at which point I'll go back to the point where people would expect replacements. Obviously you can deny them a replacement, but the costs for taking them in for examination before repairs will keep tech services busy for a while, since no one will acknowledge they tinkered around with it at first.

On the other hand, why should it be the PSP? Or Sony? Plenty of devices that offer this and might even be a bit more open source to start with. Android tablets seem to be kinda suited for this or so I've heard.

 

[Judge]

Does it matter if Sony or any other company get's pissed off about this ?

I'd say "not really" based on the immediate links I can find that explain how to circumvent firmware limitations. If they were aggressively following up on such things to the present day I don't think it would be so easy to find so many links relative to hacking proprietary firmware.

They apparently did make quite a stink a few years back though. But other than go after people making and uploading explanations of how to do it, I don't think they even bother now.

Mostly I suspect the real exposure the way Sony might see it is to their reputation. They want everything to work (or fail) based on what they designed and tested and not someone else. Otherwise it skews the integrity of their product liability. That much is understandable.

 

[GoofKing]

Uh, if it's not too much trouble, could someone briefly explain what's being discussed? Bear in mind that I'm using an 11-year-old computer with XP, so my techno knowledge of modern devices is behind times. Long live 8-track!!!

Lol, Long live 8-tracks What's being discussed is jail-breaking devices, or sort of hacking the firmware to add your own or other people's applications or plugins which is usually referred to as 'home-brew' You see, Sony's PSP stopped supporting their product some time ago and stopped upgrading the firmware, which means I'm stuck with some crappy applications, although the music player is pretty decent. I originally wanted to jail break my PSP to add a decent web browser since theirs suck but still can't quite find one

People with home-brew apps likes to leave their brains behind and not properly label the apps or plugins according to the CFW (custom Firm Ware) version.

I though it would be harder to jail break and though impossible because I'm running version 6.60 but all I had to do was use the USB to connect it to my computer and add the CFW to the /PSP/GAME directory on the memory stick. You can only access files on the memory card and not the roms or rams there-self. I learned a lot about my PSP device by jail breaking it XD

 

[GoofKing]

The thing with jailbreaks is most likely that it's a legal issue where you use the device for other reasons that intended. A lot of these companies pretty much state that you must use the OS that comes with it. However, most consumers just do whatever they want with their devices and it's not something they in general, will take legal matters over. I mean; and I don't know if this is the same in the US, but over here Coca cola actually has fine print on the bottle here that says their bottles are only meant to hold Coca cola and the bottles, despite paying for them, are still property of Coca cola. Technically, you'd be breaking "terms of use" if you put water in such a bottle.

It doesn't matter if Sony gets pissed off at this, what matters is the day they decide they will actually take it to court, granted the fine print of the user agreement and such will cover this.

What's also relevant to note with jailbreaking and thus using software that might not be certified by Sony or whatever, is that it's a warranty issue. Some people who jailbreak these devices know they void warranty by doing this, but some people do this and think that it's perfectly normal and if the device breaks when you fail in doing a proper jailbreak and pretty much brick the device, that they are entitled to a new one since it broke.

That being said; I don't think it's a bad idea to have a open source development kit for people to use on a PSP, though I don't know how much damage it could do to a PSP at which point I'll go back to the point where people would expect replacements. Obviously you can deny them a replacement, but the costs for taking them in for examination before repairs will keep tech services busy for a while, since no one will acknowledge they tinkered around with it at first.

On the other hand, why should it be the PSP? Or Sony? Plenty of devices that offer this and might even be a bit more open source to start with. Android tablets seem to be kinda suited for this or so I've heard.

I don't see what's really illegal about it unless you were selling home-brewed apps or using it to obtain illegal things :/ I think I remember a Linux version for the PSP unless it was for some other device

 

[King_Oni]

I don't see what's really illegal about it unless you were selling home-brewed apps or using it to obtain illegal things :/ I think I remember a Linux version for the PSP unless it was for some other device

There are plenty of things I don't see as illegal, but they apparently are.

I think in short my post would be summed up as "it's at Sony's discretion whether to think it's ok or not... they ultimately decide if it's illegal and if they want to take action".

 

[StephF]

I bought an external hard drive which had a web based interface to configure the shares. I rooted it and installed a MySQL server on it too. Worked nicely.

 

[Tarragon]

I remember a friends son turning a playstation into a PC. It was very, very good at graphics!!

 

[Judge]

I don't see what's really illegal about it unless you were selling home-brewed apps or using it to obtain illegal things :/ I think I remember a Linux version for the PSP unless it was for some other device

That's where you have to make a distinction between criminal law and a civil wrong (a tort). I don't believe there's anything criminal about it. It just potentially opens the door to a civil suit provided a plaintiff wants to go to the trouble and expense of doing so.

In this instance, Sony feels "maligned" whenever anyone alters the hardware and software they developed exclusively on their terms. It's about a corporation maintaining unnecessary proprietary control and integrity of their product and little else.

Typical corporate overkill. The only thing I think is necessary is a clear understanding that hacking the OS constituted a breach of the terms of warranty and little else. If predominantly successful hacks promote more sales, Sony shouldn't be complaining.

 

[GoofKing]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm embarrassed to say that I had to look up what a PSP was. Would I be correct in that it's similar to what a Game Boy was twenty-plus years ago? I understand the Game Boy since I bought one for my friends' daughter back then.

Your welcome and please don't feel bad, I had to ask my girlfriend about a lot of things and I embarrassed myself plenty of times when I asked around about a Justin Beaver thinking it was a cartoon character XD

 

[Meistersinger]

I worked in front line support for Apple for 2 years. The first thing they pound into your head, especially with the iDevices: any modification made to firmware automatically voids your warranty. Doesn't matter if you installed Cydia on an iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch, or lf you install Linux on an iPod Classic, just to listen to music encoded using Ogg Vorbis, FLAC, or Monkey's Audio. It is a violation of Apple's Terms of Service, and will not be supported in any way, shape or form. If you call support, and the agent discovers these mods are installed, they will immediately void the warranty that is left, and will refuse to support your device.

Of course, I normally wait until the device is out of warranty and out of production to make those mods. Even when I do jailbreak an iDevice, I usually end up bricking the damn thing!


Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

 

[Judge]

Of course, I normally wait until the device is out of warranty and out of production to make those mods. Even when I do jailbreak an iDevice, I usually end up bricking the damn thing!

So you end up buying another. No doubt Apple is happy with this. You'd think Sony would appreciate the same for the most logical of rea$on$. But perhaps this reflects a difference in corporate cultures. That there are corporate mindsets behind closed doors who want to go a step further and have control over people every bit as they attempt to have control over their product.

Imagine those who want "subjects" and not mere "customers". Scary thought. But then that's one of those dystopian futures. "Rollerball" may be coming faster than we think. Brought to you by Sony? Stay tuned...

 

[KassieMac]

I was working at the local Apple Store when the first iPhone was released, and that was when I first heard of jailbreaking. Some say it's illegal, I don't know if that's true or not, but it makes no sense to me … if I own a piece of hardware, I own it and I can modify it as I like, with two caveats: I don't hurt anyone else, and I take responsibility for the risk.

However, in 2007 iPhone didn't have the ability to load 3rd-party apps, which people desperately wanted. An economy sprung up in jailbreaking iPhones, and it caused us no end of trouble in the store. This was caused by most people clinging desperately to Unreasonable Expectations™ and having no concept of Personal Responsibility™. When they made these mods and something went wrong, they'd all flood the store demanding replacements … they had broken their own device as surely as if they'd run it over with their car, but somehow they felt it was Apple's responsibility to fix/replace what they screwed up. I can't tell you how many times I had to explain "you've voided your warranty" to people who just didn't want to hear it.

To me, this is the litmus test: if you have to get someone else to make the mods, you've got no business jailbreaking. The only exception is if your 'friend' who did the mod will take responsibility for its upkeep … which is rarely the case.

So you don't need to wait until it's out of warranty, as long as you're willing to take responsibility & acknowledge you've just voided it.

And yes, I did jailbreak my original iPhone. It was fun to play with for a little while, but it made the device unstable & crashy, so I restored it fairly quickly … but it's each individual's choice as long as they accept the risk.

 

[zurb]

Uh, if it's not too much trouble, could someone briefly explain what's being discussed?

As far as phones are concerned, sometimes they are sold cheaply, but tied to a particular contract. Or in the case of iPhones, Apple does not allow you to install apps not on their App Store and apps don't have access to root folders. This is great for security but can be overly restrictive for some people. Jail breaking refers to breaking these restrictions and can be done for a number of reasons. Maybe to use a phone on a different network. Maybe to allow others apps to be installed. Maybe to access root folders. Maybe to install fonts and languages not natively supported. It usually involves installing a hacked or modified version of firmware.

 

[King_Oni]

Ibut it's each individual's choice as long as they accept the risk.

And that is often the problem with fiddling around with devices.

A lot of people don't see the harm in it and don't understand the risk by playing around. To them it's the entire "I own it so I can do what I want" as well as the fact that they feel entitled for a replacement if they themselves mess up.

I can't count the number of times I was in a line waiting my turn at a service desk at an electronics retailer where people demanded a refund or replacement even if the employee at the counter, who is clearly not tech staff, can already tell they did stuff with their device that shouldn't be done.

 

[Judge]

This is a major reason why I chose not to consider the idea of being self-employed building computers for people. I'm very good at it. However I'd be likely wasting most of my resources over people who hacked their system or more likely have a virus or malware issue which wouldn't be my responsibility.

But that wouldn't negate my having to check it out in the first place. It would have driven me nuts...and out of the business....though not necessarily in that order.

 

[Meistersinger]

Maybe to use a phone on a different network. Maybe to allow others apps to be installed. Maybe to access root folders. Maybe to install fonts and languages not natively supported. It usually involves installing a hacked or modified version of firmware.

In the case of using your phone on a different network, nowadays you're SOL, no thanks to DMCA, which is administered by the Library of Congress (You'd think that the FCC should be administering anything dealing with bandwidth and broadcast spectrum, but this is obviously not the case.). Effective Jan 2013, smartphone users are no longer allowed to ask cellular companies to unlock your phone to their service. (As if it matters, since Sprint and Hellsarizon consistently refuse to unlock ANY handsets they sell from their networks. AT&T and T-Mobile might, if you talk to the right person in their respective companies). Makes you want to drop kick your handset and carrier, and buy a satellite phone, which is even more expensive.


Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

 

[DarkLady]

I tried to jailbreak an iPod once and it just got messed up and I had to restore it.

 

[Kuribo]

Yeah, I've jailbroken several iOS devices, although none of mine are presently jailbroken.