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You know that feeling when something seems like a bad idea?

MildredHubble

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I saw this just now. I read about half of it, it's a little dry.


It just seems to me like a really dumb idea. Sure we have to do something about global warming, but how many times have we put seemingly innocuous chemicals into the atmosphere that caused unexpected consequences?

Perhaps the rest of the article will be more reassuring, though I'm not in the right frame of mind to absorb it right now.
 

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
There's a lot to consider with climate that a lot of people should be considering but aren't. A lot of the melt water from declining glaciers isn't going in to the oceans. It's going in to the atmosphere.

I imagine a lot of British people are familiar with this scenario - after a hot summers day you look forward to the cool of the evening but just on sunset a band of heavy cloud moves in, and traps the heat like a blanket.

Water vapour is also white and quite reflective, it should sort of self regulate once density gets to a certain point.
 

MildredHubble

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
There's a lot to consider with climate that a lot of people should be considering but aren't. A lot of the melt water from declining glaciers isn't going in to the oceans. It's going in to the atmosphere.

I imagine a lot of British people are familiar with this scenario - after a hot summers day you look forward to the cool of the evening but just on sunset a band of heavy cloud moves in, and traps the heat like a blanket.

Water vapour is also white and quite reflective, it should sort of self regulate once density gets to a certain point.
Definitely know what summers evenings have been like here in the UK. Just horrible, there's no movement in the air, so opening windows is an exercise in futility :-(

The weather is never quite right here! Maybe I just don't have the resilience I once had, but I'm sure that we didn't have such balmy evenings when I was younger!
 

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
Ocean and air currents are shifting patterns to suit the conditions. People used to worry that Britain would freeze if the ocean currents altered too much but I think extra cloud cover alters the equation.
 

Luca

charm & chaos
V.I.P Member
Humans are very talented at coming up with not-so-bright ideas. We have been doing it for centuries.
When I saw that this was your thread I was wondering if it was connected to the Twitter one, speaking of terrible ideas by humans :p
 

MildredHubble

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Ocean and air currents are shifting patterns to suit the conditions. People used to worry that Britain would freeze if the ocean currents altered too much but I think extra cloud cover alters the equation.
It's all very complex. It's like a finely balanced tower of dominos. Get a little too ambitious or too confident and in 200 years an alien civilization will be pondering exactly why an apparently intelligent species decided to put so many harmful chemicals into the atmosphere. "did they not understand they needed it to survive?" They will ask.

I remember a cautionary tale from my childhood, it went...

"There was an old lady who swallowed a fly, I don't know why she swallowed a fly, perhaps she'll die? There was an old lady who swallowed a spider..."

I understood the message as a 2 or 3 year old. Perhaps we should put some kids in charge of the environment who have managed to understand the afore mentioned nursery rhyme?!
 

MildredHubble

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Humans are very talented at coming up with not-so-bright ideas. We have been doing it for centuries.
When I saw that this was your thread I was wondering if it was connected to the Twitter one, speaking of terrible ideas by humans :p
I think you just figured out what will finish the planet! A toxic mix of Twitter and Sulphur in the ionosphere! I don't think Artificial Intelligence will even be in the running as the harbinger of the Apocalypse! :smilecat:
 

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
The whole thing will sort itself out as long as we don't interfere with it. It's been around for millions of years and will still be here long after humans have gone.

As I pointed out, once temperature and humidity reach a certain point there should be a balance of sorts, and it's really only human concerns that are at risk. The wildlife will sort itself out soon enough, it always does. This is called Evolution. Some will die out and others will evolve. Trying to halt that process is like trying to stop the tides.
 

Gerald Wilgus

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
We are seeing warming where I live. We aren't getting the insect-killing lows in the winter due to the Great Lakes getting warmer, yet in the summer, the nights are cool and the days warm to hot. This goes well with the NOAA forcast for Michigan.
 

MildredHubble

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
The whole thing will sort itself out as long as we don't interfere with it. It's been around for millions of years and will still be here long after humans have gone.

As I pointed out, once temperature and humidity reach a certain point there should be a balance of sorts, and it's really only human concerns that are at risk. The wildlife will sort itself out soon enough, it always does. This is called Evolution. Some will die out and others will evolve. Trying to halt that process is like trying to stop the tides.
True enough. But I can't help but think that it's incredible that we seem so intent on hastening our demise. It just seems so simple to me. Just stop putting things into the atmosphere that don't belong there. At least as much as is possible!

We are like that character in that movie Dr Strangelove, riding a nuclear bomb to the earth, waving our Stetson yelling "yeeeehaw!!!".
 

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
We've had El Nino for 3 years straight, no real summer in the southern regions and far too much water.
 

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
True enough. But I can't help but think that it's incredible that we seem so intent on hastening our demise.
It's already a done deal. I'm loving all the new and less polluting ways of doing things, I'm really glad that it's starting to be taken seriously, but it's too little too late to prevent the changes that are already coming.
 

MildredHubble

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
It's already a done deal. I'm loving all the new and less polluting ways of doing things, I'm really glad that it's starting to be taken seriously, but it's too little too late to prevent the changes that are already coming.
I have heard that from some climate experts as far back as 10 years ago. They basically said to the reporter conducting an interview (who had asked if recycling would help) "Do it if it makes you feel better, but really it's already too late..."

So that made me think "oh dear!".

It's quite a common trait amongst human beings, that we wait until the "proverbial" hits the fan, then we act. I think actually we, as a species, are getting better at keeping our heads out of the sand, but unfortunately I think we are about 50 years behind the correct curve so to speak.
 

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
It's not going to be a disaster for humanity itself, but it's certainly going to shift the current world order of power, and That's what's got so many people's knickers in a twist.
 

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
Imagine a simplified image of the globe. Around the equator is a band of green, the tropics. North and south of that are bands of ochre, deserts. North and south of those are the temperate climes.

With global warming the band of tropics gets wider. The bands of desert retain their width but get pushed further north and south. So what is now the edges of the temperate zones will become desert.

Consider how that's going to affect different countries. Who's currently starving through drought and who's going to be in that position next century. Power shifts.
 

MildredHubble

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
It's not going to be a disaster for humanity itself, but it's certainly going to shift the current world order of power, and That's what's got so many people's knickers in a twist.
That is a little more optimistic than I feel about things quite often. I just hope we don't end up being dominated by China. The way they control their population is truly Orwellian. The saving grace I suppose is that China doesn't seem too intent on exporting it's regime.

On the other hand, the west isn't too different in some ways. But it's mostly corporations marching us in that direction and having too much influence over our governments :-(
 

Gerald Wilgus

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I have heard that from some climate experts as far back as 10 years ago. They basically said to the reporter conducting an interview (who had asked if recycling would help) "Do it if it makes you feel better, but really it's already too late..."

So that made me think "oh dear!".

It's quite a common trait amongst human beings, that we wait until the "proverbial" hits the fan, then we act. I think actually we, as a species, are getting better at keeping our heads out of the sand, but unfortunately I think we are about 50 years behind the correct curve so to speak.
I like stats and keep my eye on model v reality deviations. I some areas we are beyond 3-sigma in the worse direction. Climate models are turning out to be too conservative.
Imagine a simplified image of the globe. Around the equator is a band of green, the tropics. North and south of that are bands of ochre, deserts. North and south of those are the temperate climes.

With global warming the band of tropics gets wider. The bands of desert retain their width but get pushed further north and south. So what is now the edges of the temperate zones will become desert.

Consider how that's going to affect different countries. Who's currently starving through drought and who's going to be in that position next century. Power shifts.
Do not forget that in the temperate bands the circumpolar winds set up the polar vortex. Now it is breaking down as the arctic is warming the fastest.
 

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
I just hope we don't end up being dominated by China.
That's something a lot of people forget about China. They have never initiated violence in another country that does not share an immediate border with China. I wish people would stop listening to all the hype put out by the likes of Mr Murdoch.

Do not forget that in the temperate bands the circumpolar winds set up the polar vortex. Now it is breaking down as the arctic is warming the fastest.
This is what happened to our last summer, and again this year. Antarctic ice is disappearing at a phenomenal rate and ocean currents are dragging all the cold air with them.
 

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