“Women aren’t just for relationships.”

[Markness]

I used to have an online friend and she knew that I was depressed about not having a girlfriend. A few times she told me things like “Women aren’t just for relationships. They can be friends, too.” and I would tell her I knew that, I just hadn’t been able to make friends with women.

Why is it hard for me to make friends with women? It honestly has to do with the culture I live in and gender roles. Women around me are pressured to fit a certain mold and that usually entails only doing things considered acceptable for them like watching drama shows, reading romance novels, listening to soft music, going to church, gardening, having aspirations for parenthood, shopping for clothes, and gossiping with their “girlfriends”. I don’t know how to have a conversation with them when it comes to those things besides wondering if I’ll ever become a parent myself or not.

Women who read science fiction, listen to rock music, and want to do things usually considered for men only tend to get flack and are in the extreme minority. When I do encounter them, they tend to have boyfriends or husbands (Unless they are lesbians) who disallow them from having friendships with other men. I only have one female friend in person because her husband isn’t a control freak. I honestly wish I could have a female friend and our friendship could develop into a romantic one but the fact so many women in my area get into relationships early in my life puts me at an disadvantage.

 

[Metalhead]

Build yourself up and stop thinking about a relationship for a while. People (including women) are generally more drawn to other people who have their lives in order. Stop thinking of external barriers and start cultivating what you can add to relationships should they come.

 

[Aspychata]

Wait, didn't you just post this recently? Have you done anything new? Have you joined any classes, talk to woman at the coffee shop, go volunteer at the Humane society? Woman aren't going to run up to you and throw telephone numbers at you. Otherwise nobody would be at this site complaining they can't get a girlfriend. You have to get out and start somewhere. I know it's hard, but life in general is hard. Maybe update your look so that you up your odds. Maybe take a zumba class, l see a lot of single woman in those classes at LA fitness.

 

[SusanLR]

I never find I fit into the friends with women club either, and I'm a women.
Just as @Markness said, they are into and talk about things that doesn't interest me.

like watching drama shows, reading romance novels, listening to soft music, going to church, gardening, having aspirations for parenthood, shopping for clothes, and gossiping with their “girlfriends”.

I do like listening to soft ambient music, but, I like rock also.
Gardening is interesting to me, but, the rest of those aren't.

I get along better with men and what men seem to like to talk about more.
Except I'm not looking for it to turn romantic at my age, nor did I ever have a child and never will.
But, I also understand that if they have wives or girlfriends how jealousy and control puts a stop to being friends.
The guy I live with is that way with me having men for friends and we're not even in a relationship
other than house sharing.
I would still be living the same as I did when single, but, he wants to know everything I do and when
and where.
Yeah, I get it.

 

[Kalinychta]

I suppose it's just difficult to have a platonic friendship with a member of the opposite sex when you're lonely for a romantic relationship. Maybe it's impossible full stop.

 

[Kalinychta]

You actually seem like a really decent guy, though, as much "tough love" as I've given you in the past. Women actually feverishly pine for friendships with men like you.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

95% of my interactions with people are with females, mostly co-workers. That said, they are co-workers,...friendly,...get along with fine,...great one-on-one interactions. However, if there are more than one people, I can't a word in edgewise. LOL! Welcome to autism 101.

It is a rare thing to have a shared interest or hobby to talk about, with anyone, least of all a female. Mostly, if I see someone I like I will try my best at asking how their day is, how's the family, etc. Something to trigger a conversation. It's not easy some days, as I am NOT a conversationalist. I like to monologue, and no one wants to hear me monologue. LOL! So, I have to be very aware of myself.

In general, I kind of suck at being a friend,...as it takes a lot of conscious effort to constantly reach out to people,...and it's just not me. The way my brain works,...I am a "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" kind of person, which usually just drives people away as far as being a true friend. I think it is this aspect of my autism that results in the lack of any friends in my life,...but the other part is,...I generally don't have feelings of loneliness, so it doesn't bother me in the least. For some people, a lack of social interaction can cause all sorts of mental health issues,...for me,...it keeps me centered and content.

 

[OkRad]

Platonic relationships can be VERY tricky. There are many people who say, "Oh, don't be ridiculous! All my friends are [opposite gender]." But when you dig deeper, you can see one or the other fell in love, there was "benefits" (i.e. sex) and all sorts of things to suggest this was not a two way street.

I can't tell you HOW MANY people (both m and f) who was in a "JUST FRIENDS!" situation and one got so hurt. The other? Oh come on! We were just FRIENDS!

Now that is not to say it never happens. I know a woman who has loads of friends, but again....she fell in love with one who did not want her and a few fell in love with her......etc....

If you don't mind your heart getting stomped on a couple times, sure, be friends.

 

[Qoyote]

Is it any easier to start a conversation (like a real one) with a guy? Your post sounds exactly like me trying to make friends with other guys.

 

[Markness]

Wait, didn't you just post this recently? Have you done anything new? Have you joined any classes, talk to woman at the coffee shop, go volunteer at the Humane society? Woman aren't going to run up to you and throw telephone numbers at you. Otherwise nobody would be at this site complaining they can't get a girlfriend. You have to get out and start somewhere. I know it's hard, but life in general is hard. Maybe update your look so that you up your odds. Maybe take a zumba class, l see a lot of single woman in those classes at LA fitness.

I was going to volunteer finally but inclement weather cancelled the event. It’s been storming like crazy in my area. When I go into coffee shops, women either have company with them or are face deep in laptops.

 

[Markness]

I never find I fit into the friends with women club either, and I'm a women.
Just as @Markness said, they are into and talk about things that doesn't interest me.

I do like listening to soft ambient music, but, I like rock also.
Gardening is interesting to me, but, the rest of those aren't.

I get along better with men and what men seem to like to talk about more.
Except I'm not looking for it to turn romantic at my age, nor did I ever have a child and never will.
But, I also understand that if they have wives or girlfriends how jealousy and control puts a stop to being friends.
The guy I live with is that way with me having men for friends and we're not even in a relationship
other than house sharing.
I would still be living the same as I did when single, but, he wants to know everything I do and when
and where.
Yeah, I get it.

It’s not soft ambience they listen to. It would be CCM, gospel, country, and pop. I like ambient music. I wasn’t necessarily knocking gardening because that takes skill but these women do it because they feel like they have to or else they aren’t feminine enough and that their homes will look ugly without them.

 

[Markness]

I suppose it's just difficult to have a platonic friendship with a member of the opposite sex when you're lonely for a romantic relationship. Maybe it's impossible full stop.

My only female friend in person is married but her husband isn’t a control freak like most men in my culture are. She also likes video games and is a fan of Sailor Moon. I would easily befriend someone else like her and hope our friendship could become a relationship.

 

[Markness]

You actually seem like a really decent guy, though, as much "tough love" as I've given you in the past. Women actually feverishly pine for friendships with men like you.

It makes me wonder why a good number of women, especially in their early 20’s, put up with men both verbally and physically harassing them. Could it just be a Texas thing?

 

[1ForAll]

It makes me wonder why a good number of women, especially in their early 20’s, put up with men both verbally and physically harassing them. Could it just be a Texas thing?

People become often wiser and/or have different preferences as they age and go through more experiences. When I went to high school, lots of the late teen girls were after the athletic ones, as those guys were seen as more popular and socially confident. As stereotype in society is that those guys are more physically strong or glamorous and more high in demand, naturally many girls could want that in a guy, as it makes them more popular too if they are with those types.

Younger women, like younger guys, may think more about short-term gratification, than long-term fit for a friend, date, or partner, and if this means trying to get the strongest, most attractive or confident, or most sought after, this is what many will do, even if this means them putting up with a lot of bad attitude or poor behavior coming from that other because of that. Both men and women will prioritize what they want in another as they age, and their judgment can be clouded by strict attention to that, especially when they are in their teens to early twenties.

However, as we become more knowledgeable and mature, and as our circumstances change, our priorities often change, and as our needs can differ, and we learned from any mistakes in the past, or start to see more good in things we once were neutral to or repelled by. When I was younger, I would have likely given the first woman a chance that showed interest. But, I have learned and grown much since then. Nowadays, I would have focused on being patient, or focused on persons with the best personality fit, meaning the person who had similar philosophies on life, in terms of growth and positive attitude, and who gave similar great efforts.

 

[Streetwise]

It makes me wonder why a good number of women, especially in their early 20’s, put up with men both verbally and physically harassing them. Could it just be a Texas thing?

Better the devil you know!

 

[Fino]

I'm sure it's not true, but I get the sense that you have no hobbies, no pastimes, nothing that excites you day to day that you work on or do or play, things that fascinate and enchant you, making your days sparkle and shine when you think about doing them. Do you? Can you? Will you? Do you know that life is joyful?

 

[MyLifeAsAnAspie]

I had the same problem as you. I didn't understand the importance of cultivating platonic relationships with women. It was a breakthrough when I started to do that. There was a middle age woman at work who had befriended a single male friend of mine and three of us became friends. She had a poor relationship with her husband and craved male friendship. My male friend was like a bridge between the NT and ND worlds. Odd enough to not fit well in with NTs but not autistic that I could see. He actually befriended her when he noticed she was upset due to marriage problems and he had consoled her.

 

[Hannibal]

I am a female... and autistic, if that impacts how you interpret my response or not.

Have you considered dating an autistic woman? I'm sure if you have you've never ran across one or if you did, you didn't know they were autistic. I understand where you're coming from. This is why any long-term, close friendships I've had have been with men. I relate to them much, much more and I find it very difficult to socialize with other women, especially younger women in my age group.

I hope you're one day able to find someone good for you.

 

[scarletnymph]

I recognize that some of what I'm about to say might be a little harsh, but I don't necessarily mean it to be. I would like to help you.

First, please clarify what this thread is about? When I read the title, "women are for more than relationships" I presumed it was about women being valuable as friends ... but actually reading your post and other comments, it seems more that this thread is about the opposite ... you really just want a girlfriend and can't see women as being good for anything other than relationships.

Also, one thing to keep in mind here is that I am pansexual/bisexual ... so this 'friends vs romantic' partner issues that you face with the opposite gender, I have to deal with with EVERYONE I make friends with. I guess in this sense, everyone is the opposite gender for me. So, I kind of had to get over this stuff just to function.

Now, lets look at what you said :

I honestly wish I could have a female friend and our friendship could develop into a romantic one but the fact so many women in my area get into relationships early in my life puts me at an disadvantage.

If you are looking for female friends, this statement right here sums up why you keep failing at it. You don't want a friend. You want a girlfriend and you think a friend is a step on that path. Its not. If you want to make friends then that's go to be the end goal. When you meet someone, you need to be thinking "I'd like to be her friend and hang out and do friend stuff." ... not "I'd like her to be my friend so she can become my girlfriend". Being friends HAS to be good enough.

When we approach a relationship with someone thinking about them eventually being a romantic partner we handle it differently than we would if we just wanted someone to hang out with.

When you make friends with a boy... how does that work? My guess is you happen to be doing something you like, like playing a game, and you meet them and you end up playing the game together and you have some fun and your like ... hey, that was kind of fun ... do you want to do that again? and they say sure.

When you make a new male friend, you probably aren't dreaming of a future together or what it will be like to be their 'friend' or anything. You are just friends. It doesn't need planning or thinking through. Its not something spectacular or amazing or going to be turned into a movie. You're just two people who like the same stuff and have fun doing it together.

Maybe your friendship gets to be a little more developed over time ... you hang out a lot and do things together and face problems together and you've built some history ... and you might find that the relationship is super important to you. That this person is a really good friend and important part of your life. Now you have a best friend.

Most likely at no point in their was a plan for that to happen. No point when you were hoping thats what would happen. It just happened as a normal thing.

If you want to have female friends ... thats how it has to work too. That's what you have to do. An actual female friend is no different from a male friend. In terms of a friend, the only difference is in your mind. Its different because you think its different. Friendship itself is asexual.

Don't go into it looking for something or planning or dreaming or about what you want it to be. You wouldn't do that with a man. Just let it be whatever its going to be. Focus on the things you have in common. In the things you like to do. She's not a girl. She's a person you like to hang out with and do things with. No different from a boy that you'd hang out with and do things with. Its nothing special.

When you can do that. When you stop looking to control the outcome and just be yourself and let the things you both enjoy be your focus, then it will be easier to make friends with women and easier for them to be good for more than just romantic relationships.

If you do that, you may also find that when you see them that way, those jealous husbands/boyfriends your worried about will probably care less. Part of their issue is that they know your not looking for a friend. Its not always obvious to us on the spectrum, but that kind of stuff can be obvious. Haven't you ever heard a character in a tv show say something like "I've seen the way you look at her, your in love" ... how we act can give away our intentions and desires to NTs.

Now, if you do end up with a friend who happens to be female (and single) ... MAYBE somewhere down the road ... when you have some history together ... and you've forgotten that she could be anything other than your friend ... you both might realize how important you are to each other and be more than just friends. Or not.

You can't MAKE that kind of story happen. The people who have that kind of experience ... where they had a friend who eventually became their girlfriend or boyfriend ... that wasn't planned. When they were friends, that was the plan. At that point in their lives that's all they wanted to be and all they thought they were ever going to be. They couldn't see the future where they were going to be lovers. Its just the nature of things.

So you need to let go of that. Focus on the present. On what you like. If you would like to have female friends ... and I mean FRIENDS ... not a girlfriend ... don't go do activities you don't really want to do looking for a girl, like a zumba class or volunteering at a soup kitchen.

You wouldn't go do something you don't want to do just to make a friend with another boy, would you? No, probably not ... and if you did ... what would you have in common? What would you do together? If you meet at a zumba class, then this person likes zumba ... if you meet volunteering at a soup kitchen, then this person likes doing that ... so if you don't ... why do you want to be their friend? If they were a boy, would you want to hang out doing soup kitchen stuff with them or zumba stuff? If the answer is no ... then don't do it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go put yourself out there ... but look for groups of people or places that people hang out that do the things you like to do.

Now, if the women in your area don't like to do the things you like to do ... well ... you might need to expand your list of interests. Maybe watch some drama shows ... maybe you'll find you like them ... take a gardening class ... maybe you'll enjoy it ... read a romance novel or two ... listen to soft music ... or offer to go shopping with a woman ... now, I'm not suggesting you do these things specifically to make friends or get a girlfriend ... that wouldn't be authentic ... but you might find you like some of these things and then you have something to share with a woman ...

Even if you don't end up liking all of that stuff ... its good to learn to appreciate the things that do matter to other people ... to glimpse their world and what matters to them. It will also give you stories and things you can relate to. You can say 'oh, I watched Grey's Anatomy, I didn't like it because..' and she can say, 'really? I thought that was a great episode...' and you can say 'well, what did you think about blah blah blah' ...

My girlfriend actually doesn't like shopping, but I've taken male friends with me shopping a few times and they help me pick out outfits and we talk about the clothes ... not about fashion ... but like the guy I'm thinking of would pick out an outfit that was really ugly and say things like 'would you wear this'? ... I'd say no ... then we'd joke about what kind of woman would want to wear that ... was she color blind or something ... it can be an opportunity for fun and bonding.

Even if its not a lot of fun, it will give you stories about shopping that you can share with a woman and it will give you perspective on women's issues and experiences. Like one of the worst things ever is trying to buy a bra. If you can hang out with a woman and be able to talk to her about how much bra shopping sucks because you went with another woman and you saw how much it sucked ... that is really cool. Women LIKE men who know things about stuff that most men don't care about. ( just like YOU like women who care about things that most women don't care about )

I'm not saying you need to give up the stuff you like for friendship or relationship with a woman ... but, once you find you have some things in common with a woman and you make friends and you two are enjoying doing those things together ... if she isn't already into the things you like ... you can always say 'hey, would you like to hang out and play a video game' or 'I read that romance novel you suggested, I didn't really like it ... would you maybe like to read one of my sci-fi novels'? etc. It may never have occurred to her to try these things ... but she might give it a shot because she's your friend ... and maybe she'll like it ... if not, at least you have something to talk about ... and you've learned more about the limitations of your friendship.

Maybe someday a friendship with a woman will become more ... but if it doesn't, remember you still have a person who is your friend that you enjoy hanging out with. A friend is a friend ... its someone who has your back and you enjoy hanging out with ... and whats between their legs shouldn't change that.

As yoda said "No ... no different ... only different in your mind."

 

[Markness]

I recognize that some of what I'm about to say might be a little harsh, but I don't necessarily mean it to be. I would like to help you.

First, please clarify what this thread is about? When I read the title, "women are for more than relationships" I presumed it was about women being valuable as friends ... but actually reading your post and other comments, it seems more that this thread is about the opposite ... you really just want a girlfriend and can't see women as being good for anything other than relationships.

Also, one thing to keep in mind here is that I am pansexual/bisexual ... so this 'friends vs romantic' partner issues that you face with the opposite gender, I have to deal with with EVERYONE I make friends with. I guess in this sense, everyone is the opposite gender for me. So, I kind of had to get over this stuff just to function.

Now, lets look at what you said :



If you are looking for female friends, this statement right here sums up why you keep failing at it. You don't want a friend. You want a girlfriend and you think a friend is a step on that path. Its not. If you want to make friends then that's go to be the end goal. When you meet someone, you need to be thinking "I'd like to be her friend and hang out and do friend stuff." ... not "I'd like her to be my friend so she can become my girlfriend". Being friends HAS to be good enough.

When we approach a relationship with someone thinking about them eventually being a romantic partner we handle it differently than we would if we just wanted someone to hang out with.

When you make friends with a boy... how does that work? My guess is you happen to be doing something you like, like playing a game, and you meet them and you end up playing the game together and you have some fun and your like ... hey, that was kind of fun ... do you want to do that again? and they say sure.

When you make a new male friend, you probably aren't dreaming of a future together or what it will be like to be their 'friend' or anything. You are just friends. It doesn't need planning or thinking through. Its not something spectacular or amazing or going to be turned into a movie. You're just two people who like the same stuff and have fun doing it together.

Maybe your friendship gets to be a little more developed over time ... you hang out a lot and do things together and face problems together and you've built some history ... and you might find that the relationship is super important to you. That this person is a really good friend and important part of your life. Now you have a best friend.

Most likely at no point in their was a plan for that to happen. No point when you were hoping thats what would happen. It just happened as a normal thing.

If you want to have female friends ... thats how it has to work too. That's what you have to do. An actual female friend is no different from a male friend. In terms of a friend, the only difference is in your mind. Its different because you think its different. Friendship itself is asexual.

Don't go into it looking for something or planning or dreaming or about what you want it to be. You wouldn't do that with a man. Just let it be whatever its going to be. Focus on the things you have in common. In the things you like to do. She's not a girl. She's a person you like to hang out with and do things with. No different from a boy that you'd hang out with and do things with. Its nothing special.

When you can do that. When you stop looking to control the outcome and just be yourself and let the things you both enjoy be your focus, then it will be easier to make friends with women and easier for them to be good for more than just romantic relationships.

If you do that, you may also find that when you see them that way, those jealous husbands/boyfriends your worried about will probably care less. Part of their issue is that they know your not looking for a friend. Its not always obvious to us on the spectrum, but that kind of stuff can be obvious. Haven't you ever heard a character in a tv show say something like "I've seen the way you look at her, your in love" ... how we act can give away our intentions and desires to NTs.

Now, if you do end up with a friend who happens to be female (and single) ... MAYBE somewhere down the road ... when you have some history together ... and you've forgotten that she could be anything other than your friend ... you both might realize how important you are to each other and be more than just friends. Or not.

You can't MAKE that kind of story happen. The people who have that kind of experience ... where they had a friend who eventually became their girlfriend or boyfriend ... that wasn't planned. When they were friends, that was the plan. At that point in their lives that's all they wanted to be and all they thought they were ever going to be. They couldn't see the future where they were going to be lovers. Its just the nature of things.

So you need to let go of that. Focus on the present. On what you like. If you would like to have female friends ... and I mean FRIENDS ... not a girlfriend ... don't go do activities you don't really want to do looking for a girl, like a zumba class or volunteering at a soup kitchen.

You wouldn't go do something you don't want to do just to make a friend with another boy, would you? No, probably not ... and if you did ... what would you have in common? What would you do together? If you meet at a zumba class, then this person likes zumba ... if you meet volunteering at a soup kitchen, then this person likes doing that ... so if you don't ... why do you want to be their friend? If they were a boy, would you want to hang out doing soup kitchen stuff with them or zumba stuff? If the answer is no ... then don't do it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go put yourself out there ... but look for groups of people or places that people hang out that do the things you like to do.

Now, if the women in your area don't like to do the things you like to do ... well ... you might need to expand your list of interests. Maybe watch some drama shows ... maybe you'll find you like them ... take a gardening class ... maybe you'll enjoy it ... read a romance novel or two ... listen to soft music ... or offer to go shopping with a woman ... now, I'm not suggesting you do these things specifically to make friends or get a girlfriend ... that wouldn't be authentic ... but you might find you like some of these things and then you have something to share with a woman ...

Even if you don't end up liking all of that stuff ... its good to learn to appreciate the things that do matter to other people ... to glimpse their world and what matters to them. It will also give you stories and things you can relate to. You can say 'oh, I watched Grey's Anatomy, I didn't like it because..' and she can say, 'really? I thought that was a great episode...' and you can say 'well, what did you think about blah blah blah' ...

My girlfriend actually doesn't like shopping, but I've taken male friends with me shopping a few times and they help me pick out outfits and we talk about the clothes ... not about fashion ... but like the guy I'm thinking of would pick out an outfit that was really ugly and say things like 'would you wear this'? ... I'd say no ... then we'd joke about what kind of woman would want to wear that ... was she color blind or something ... it can be an opportunity for fun and bonding.

Even if its not a lot of fun, it will give you stories about shopping that you can share with a woman and it will give you perspective on women's issues and experiences. Like one of the worst things ever is trying to buy a bra. If you can hang out with a woman and be able to talk to her about how much bra shopping sucks because you went with another woman and you saw how much it sucked ... that is really cool. Women LIKE men who know things about stuff that most men don't care about. ( just like YOU like women who care about things that most women don't care about )

I'm not saying you need to give up the stuff you like for friendship or relationship with a woman ... but, once you find you have some things in common with a woman and you make friends and you two are enjoying doing those things together ... if she isn't already into the things you like ... you can always say 'hey, would you like to hang out and play a video game' or 'I read that romance novel you suggested, I didn't really like it ... would you maybe like to read one of my sci-fi novels'? etc. It may never have occurred to her to try these things ... but she might give it a shot because she's your friend ... and maybe she'll like it ... if not, at least you have something to talk about ... and you've learned more about the limitations of your friendship.

Maybe someday a friendship with a woman will become more ... but if it doesn't, remember you still have a person who is your friend that you enjoy hanging out with. A friend is a friend ... its someone who has your back and you enjoy hanging out with ... and whats between their legs shouldn't change that.

As yoda said "No ... no different ... only different in your mind."

Your post has too much content for me to break down and reply to. I’ll have to say some things to you in a private conversation.