Wish he realized he doesn't need to win every argument

[PinkPenguin29]

I wanna preface that I love my husband dearly. He is a wonderful and caring man. He does many wonderful things for me, and takes on a lot of burdens. But right now I need a deep breath and need my space in our small apartment that feels like it's shrinking.

I also wanna say this post is not about Politics, their is a little talk about my husband's politics, but my frustration is how he handles himself in arguments.

Ultimately my husband is a bit of a smart ass, and has the brain of a lawyer. He's also likely on the spectrum or at least can relate because he certainly has aspie moments.

One thing my husband engages in a significant amount is political debate. Usually on his phone, and he gets his focus on and doesn't hear anything else in the room. I have the same issue.

One thing I wish he realize is that just because someone walked away from an argument doesn't mean he's won it. He gets very boastful after someone 'walks away' online. I often wonder if sometimes if they walk away because of how he argues.
He will pile on fact after fact and shut down everything the other person says. He is relentless. While he does make excellent points, sometimes I feel he's overly into proving the other person wrong. For the most part if this is how he lets off his steam I just shrug it off. Most of his political opinions I agree with, and a handful I don't. The problem is when I don't agree with them, is how he responds to me. Because we are having a verbal conversation it seems he doesn't realize when that he's raising his voice, and I start to feel like he's angry. Much of his behavior I don't think he's aware of and our recent argument felt like it confirmed it.

We recently just had one of these moments, and I know he doesn't know I'm upset, and I'm not sure how to handle it, because I feel if i try to calmly talk to him about it he will go back to high level lawyer mode and not really respond to what i'm trying to say. He has to be right. It's almost like a need for him. He will speak over me, interrupting me to make his point.
He first was talking about a point he was making, and I pointed out that experts just contradicted that point. Which he responded with "actually the experts don't agree," and I responded with, "they literally had a confirmation on the TV two minutes ago" we had a little more of a back in forth with him starting to get louder. I wasn't even sure why he was getting riled, when I was just pointing out what I observed in my normal calm tone. Literally on the news they just said "X". I didn't make them say that. I was just stating what I just heard that he missed because he was so engrossed on his phone. When I pointed out he was almost yelling, he said "i'm not almost yelling I'm speaking up to be heard over the TV" and I pointed out you don't normally talk this loud with the TV on. to that he stopped talking and went back to his online debate.
Once he even told me he stops talking in an argument because i'm right, and sometimes he just doesn't feel like arguing with me, and also mentioned he won't let me know either way. Which in my opinion isn't really respectful.

Please don't get the wrong impression of our marriage, This is just one frustration I've had to deal with, and most of the time things between us our wonderful. He is the other side of my coin, and I know I have issues equally frustrating.

Right now I feel like things are extra tense because so much has happened in the last few months and the stress has been pilling on the both of us.

But I don't know how to talk to him when he gets like this. He puts his lawyer hat on, and no matter what I say he has a rebuttal waiting, and I have a hard time organizing my thoughts that I simply can not keep up.

I don't know how to respond right now, or if I should let this go.

 

[Tom]

I won't talk to anyone about politics. I even block (but do not unfriend) family on FB if they make political posts.

 

[Mia]

This sounds reminicent of my early years of marriage. My spouse would get excited or intense about a subject and his voice would become louder, because what he was talking about was so important to him. He was unaware that his voice was getting louder the more intently he spoke. But it was off-putting, and the more intently he spoke the less I wanted to participate.

Eventually, I found something similar to this and implemented some of it: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/emotional-fitness/201209/10-tips-help-avoid-ugly-arguments

It works, as long as both parties remain calm. Another thing I did was to take a critical thinking course, and a symbolic logic course as well eventually. One of my spouses degrees is in metaphysics, so he's very good at argumentation.

One of my favourite things to say is: We can both be right.

 

[PinkPenguin29]

This sounds reminicent of my early years of marriage. My spouse would get excited or intense about a subject and his voice would become louder, because what he was talking about was so important to him. He was unaware that his voice was getting louder the more intently he spoke. But it was off-putting, and the more intently he spoke the less I wanted to participate.

Eventually, I found something similar to this and implemented some of it: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/emotional-fitness/201209/10-tips-help-avoid-ugly-arguments

It works, as long as both parties remain calm. Another thing I did was to take a critical thinking course, and a symbolic logic course as well eventually. One of my spouses degrees is in metaphysics, so he's very good at argumentation.

One of my favourite things to say is: We can both be right.

Thank you for sharing that article. I am grateful that we really don't argue often, and compared to other relationships I've had the arguments my husband and I have are arguments are tame.

 

[Aspychata]

Truly want to say it's a control issue but who knows. I say we agree to disagree. We are entitled to our opinions even if they may seem wrong or weird or what the hay.

 

[PinkPenguin29]

Truly want to say it's a control issue but who knows. I say we agree to disagree. We are entitled to our opinions even if they may seem wrong or weird or what the hay.

It could be,
I just wish he realized when he's getting riled up

 

[Aspychata]

When men do it - it's called a pissing contest. Like l can piss farther then you. There is another more crude name but we won't go there. Me l like to be proved wrong. So maybe it gets down to maturity level. Maybe you intimidate him a wee bit and he needs to put you in your place to feel secure like some outdated chauvinistic meme.

 

[PinkPenguin29]

When men do it - it's called a pissing war. Like l can piss farther then you. There is another more crude name but we won't go there. Me l like to be proved wrong. So maybe it gets down to maturity level. Maybe you intimidate him a wee bit and he needs to put you in your place to feel secure like some outdated chauvinistic meme.

He really likes to be right,
and yeah, when he's wrong he does get a bit childish about it,
I think from overhearing him talk to the dog, "yeah I'm sorry she doesn't agree with me on..." and what do I say to that? I'm not mad because he didn't agree, I'm mad at how he talked to me, and dismissed me. but he wants to see it his way.

 

[Aspychata]

Of course don't say this but: you know the dog doesn't agree with you either but it's to polite to go there. Lol

I guess it's more ego then. I guess just let him win and keep the peace?

 

[PinkPenguin29]

Of course don't say this but: you know the dog doesn't agree with you either but it's to polite to go there. Lol

Thank you for making me laugh, that helps a bit

 

[Kalinychta]

Get a spray bottle and squirt him with it whenever he acts like that.

And when he gets really out of control, bust out the Super Soaker.

 

[Raggamuffin]

If you want to argue politics - become a politician.

It's my response if a friend or colleague tries to drag me into their political discussions.

Ed

 

[Misery]

I won't talk to anyone about politics. I even block (but do not unfriend) family on FB if they make political posts.

Makes sense to me.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Politics, as a whole, is just inherently toxic. Poisonous and gross.

Frankly it's outright embarrassing to watch. I have very political family members... my mother and stepfather. And... yeah, "embarrassing" is the right word. I remember once recently they were looking on their phones at facebook when I got to their house, and they're talking about "yeah, he supports THIS guy" which is followed by "wow, he really supports that? what a loser, hahaha." Shortly after, I hear "yeah, but did you see THIS over here? He's gonna look so stupid when he sees THAT. We should show him, he'll see how wrong he is, he'll look like a fool" The rest of it can basically be summed up as "LOLOLOL".

The "he" they were talking about is my mom's brother. I remember I almost walked right back out of the house. You'd never hear me or my own brother talk like that about each other. Yet there they were, both in their 60s, sounding vitriolic and mean as heck. And why? Politics. Note that neither of them are on the spectrum. This is simply what that subject does to people.

The solution to me is always very simple: Just dump the politics. Entirely. It never brings anything positive. I personally just utterly refuse to participate in any way whatsoever.

 

[unperson]

Oblivious to the larger picture, I think it's called a pyrrhic victory to win or feel you won at the cost of social likeability or norms. Where the cost of winning isnt worth it.

Maybe it's a term he's not familiar with.

 

[Creep]

I wanna preface that I love my husband dearly. He is a wonderful and caring man. He does many wonderful things for me, and takes on a lot of burdens. But right now I need a deep breath and need my space in our small apartment that feels like it's shrinking.

I also wanna say this post is not about Politics, their is a little talk about my husband's politics, but my frustration is how he handles himself in arguments.

Ultimately my husband is a bit of a smart ass, and has the brain of a lawyer. He's also likely on the spectrum or at least can relate because he certainly has aspie moments.

One thing my husband engages in a significant amount is political debate. Usually on his phone, and he gets his focus on and doesn't hear anything else in the room. I have the same issue.

One thing I wish he realize is that just because someone walked away from an argument doesn't mean he's won it. He gets very boastful after someone 'walks away' online. I often wonder if sometimes if they walk away because of how he argues.
He will pile on fact after fact and shut down everything the other person says. He is relentless. While he does make excellent points, sometimes I feel he's overly into proving the other person wrong. For the most part if this is how he lets off his steam I just shrug it off. Most of his political opinions I agree with, and a handful I don't. The problem is when I don't agree with them, is how he responds to me. Because we are having a verbal conversation it seems he doesn't realize when that he's raising his voice, and I start to feel like he's angry. Much of his behavior I don't think he's aware of and our recent argument felt like it confirmed it.

We recently just had one of these moments, and I know he doesn't know I'm upset, and I'm not sure how to handle it, because I feel if i try to calmly talk to him about it he will go back to high level lawyer mode and not really respond to what i'm trying to say. He has to be right. It's almost like a need for him. He will speak over me, interrupting me to make his point.
He first was talking about a point he was making, and I pointed out that experts just contradicted that point. Which he responded with "actually the experts don't agree," and I responded with, "they literally had a confirmation on the TV two minutes ago" we had a little more of a back in forth with him starting to get louder. I wasn't even sure why he was getting riled, when I was just pointing out what I observed in my normal calm tone. Literally on the news they just said "X". I didn't make them say that. I was just stating what I just heard that he missed because he was so engrossed on his phone. When I pointed out he was almost yelling, he said "i'm not almost yelling I'm speaking up to be heard over the TV" and I pointed out you don't normally talk this loud with the TV on. to that he stopped talking and went back to his online debate.
Once he even told me he stops talking in an argument because i'm right, and sometimes he just doesn't feel like arguing with me, and also mentioned he won't let me know either way. Which in my opinion isn't really respectful.

Please don't get the wrong impression of our marriage, This is just one frustration I've had to deal with, and most of the time things between us our wonderful. He is the other side of my coin, and I know I have issues equally frustrating.

Right now I feel like things are extra tense because so much has happened in the last few months and the stress has been pilling on the both of us.

But I don't know how to talk to him when he gets like this. He puts his lawyer hat on, and no matter what I say he has a rebuttal waiting, and I have a hard time organizing my thoughts that I simply can not keep up.

I don't know how to respond right now, or if I should let this go.

If you don’t know how to talk to him when he gets like that, then don’t. You could say something like “maybe you’re right” then walk away & go do something else. That way he gets his much needed ego boost & you get your much needed time away from him needing his ego boosted at the expense of everyone else. Win!

 

[PinkPenguin29]

Oblivious to the larger picture, I think it's called a pyrrhic victory to win or feel you won at the cost of social likeability or norms. Where the cost of winning isnt worth it.

Maybe it's a term he's not familiar with.

Thank you, that is sorta the thing, his father alienates everyone in the room with his political opinions, and really doesn't know when to drop the subject, and my husband gets frustrated at him for this, without realizing he can do the same thing sometimes

 

[PinkPenguin29]

I think my husband is feeling what has been slowly happening to the online environment on social sites like Facebook that used to be fun. We lost some friends who started chastising our other friends with the "if you are not with us, you're against us" attitude. And one friend in particular is an amazing person and a pacifist, and we tried to point out he is our friend who's aloud to have different opinions. Apparently this was an incorrect response. And now political opinions are everywhere and so is "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitudes. And I feel he is personally trying to "correct" attitudes, without realizing he has become part of the problem. He mostly debated on forums dedicated to debate, where I feel debates belong, not on sites where we share family photos, and happy Birthday messages.
I need to find a tactful way to help him move on. This is where his hyper focus goes, and knowing my own hyper focus issues I'm not sure how to help with his. Even know as I came out to get breakfast, he his fiercely typing away on his laptop, and I know it's not work

 

[Els]

Well, I saw it at my home so maybe it's relatively what's happening (just suggesting), the stress of the world's situation + the lockdown effects + whatever has happened since then; all of it has kind of triggered some personality traits of my family in the bad way. It's not like a "really bad situation", but the relationships have deteriorated for a while because of the whole situation. Now it's okay, althrough it was difficult we stayed patient with one an other. The tension is decreasing at the moment at my home (but I'm not living in the US where there's more tension added at the moment). It's like we lost some balance because of the many changes that happened, now it's getting more balanced again. There was also more of defensiveness/aggression in my stepfather (words/attitudes), now it's hopefully decreasing. Maybe if we were iving in the US with all that's happening it would get worse, I don't really know. But the situation where I live is relatively back to normal and the relationships are better now.
Give it some time because it might "just" be that he's triggered by the events and will calm down. But don't get used to that behaviour for too long either if it's hurting you. I don't know if you can find a good moment to talk to him, the issue with talking with people while they're tensed is that they might tense even more and be less receptive, but you know better.
I don't know if that's what's happening to you and him, I just wanted to share my experience of the lockdown etc at home, because I've seen the situation triggering some bad traits in people. Althrough those traits were already present they were a lot less, and now it's decreasing back to normal and totally okay.
We all have flaws but in normal times they're manageable, at some point during the lockdown it was getting heavy.

 

[Jumpback]

I think my husband is feeling what has been slowly happening to the online environment on social sites like Facebook that used to be fun. We lost some friends who started chastising our other friends with the "if you are not with us, you're against us" attitude. And one friend in particular is an amazing person and a pacifist, and we tried to point out he is our friend who's aloud to have different opinions. Apparently this was an incorrect response. And now political opinions are everywhere and so is "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitudes. And I feel he is personally trying to "correct" attitudes, without realizing he has become part of the problem. He mostly debated on forums dedicated to debate, where I feel debates belong, not on sites where we share family photos, and happy Birthday messages.
I need to find a tactful way to help him move on. This is where his hyper focus goes, and knowing my own hyper focus issues I'm not sure how to help with his. Even know as I came out to get breakfast, he his fiercely typing away on his laptop, and I know it's not work

Could it be that he does this because he is actually just good at this and it sort of keeps him going and so on? Like I have no idea about anything, but maybe he gets frustrated with his job or whatever, but then he looks forward to defeating people on the internet so he can feel better

I know that I am ultra bad at things others find easy, but then I am ultra good at some things that others find hard, which I can’t find a way to apply to anything useful, so it makes me feel better about myself being able to defeat people online, even if it is just that lose interest and walk away. It has made me feel better about myself to debate people in the past, but there really is this element of I am so good at debating certain topics that others really can’t debate me. I even purposely have left holes in my arguments just waiting for someone to point them out so someone will debate me, but no one notices these holes, or they just lose interest and walk away, which leaves me with the perception that no one can debate me.

When men do it - it's called a pissing contest. Like l can piss farther then you. There is another more crude name but we won't go there. Me l like to be proved wrong. So maybe it gets down to maturity level. Maybe you intimidate him a wee bit and he needs to put you in your place to feel secure like some outdated chauvinistic meme.

I agree, but there is an evolutionary reason for this too. Like the alpha male silverback gorilla at the top tends to mate with many females and he is respected and feared

I just have this intuitive sense that you should tread very lightly on this issue I guess. I just suspect that it’s a lot more than an annoying habit going on that is driving him.

 

[PinkPenguin29]

Well, I saw it at my home so maybe it's relatively what's happening (just suggesting), the stress of the world's situation + the lockdown effects + whatever has happened since then; all of it has kind of triggered some personality traits of my family in the bad way. It's not like a "really bad situation", but the relationships have deteriorated for a while because of the whole situation. Now it's okay, althrough it was difficult we stayed patient with one an other. The tension is decreasing at the moment at my home (but I'm not living in the US where there's more tension added at the moment). It's like we lost some balance because of the many changes that happened, now it's getting more balanced again. There was also more of defensiveness/aggression in my stepfather (words/attitudes), now it's hopefully decreasing. Maybe if we were iving in the US with all that's happening it would get worse, I don't really know. But the situation where I live is relatively back to normal and the relationships are better now.
Give it some time because it might "just" be that he's triggered by the events and will calm down. But don't get used to that behaviour for too long either if it's hurting you. I don't know if you can find a good moment to talk to him, the issue with talking with people while they're tensed is that they might tense even more and be less receptive, but you know better.
I don't know if that's what's happening to you and him, I just wanted to share my experience of the lockdown etc at home, because I've seen the situation triggering some bad traits in people. Althrough those traits were already present they were a lot less, and now it's decreasing back to normal and totally okay.
We all have flaws but in normal times they're manageable, at some point during the lockdown it was getting heavy.

I think you are exactly right, his company had him working from home a month before everyone else, and even though we don't normally go out much, he's definitely has gotten stir crazy, the riots haven't helped either of our stress, and on top of everything else in a few short weeks we have added a few financial burdens to that list.
They say people in the United States are more Polerized than they were during the Civil War. This alone makes us worry about what lies ahead.

Time is what we need, just feels time is at a standstill