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When is it okay for someone to commit suicide?

Discussion in 'Politics Discussion' started by phantom, May 8, 2021.

  1. phantom

    phantom Active Member

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    When is it okay for someone to commit suicide? And should assisted suicide be legal for everyone?

    I know that people keep saying suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but what if the problem isn't temporary?
     
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  2. SDRSpark

    SDRSpark Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I don't believe that we should ever consider ourselves to have the right to force someone to live against their will. Life and death is at the very core of a person's autonomy. I very much wish that everyone wanted to stay alive, however.

    As for assisted suicide in the case of terminal illness etc...I cannot for the life of me figure out how we can decide that it's cruel and wrong to allow an animal (who cannot speak for itself) to continue to suffer, but when an adult who CAN speak for themselves says "I do not want to continue to suffer" we as a society somehow believe it's cruel and wrong to allow them to end their suffering. This is a massive, massive contradiction. We have more understanding and respect for a cat or dog than we do our human loved ones.
     
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  3. ForestGumpett

    ForestGumpett Well-Known Member

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    I have more of a problem with keeping people stuck to tubes and hoses just to keep them alive when they are technically dead.

    As a Christian, I believe that since we were given life by God, it’s His to take and not our. This also falls into the paragraph above, in that I do not believe we need to keep people alive that God has called home.

    Only a personal opinion, I feel sure others would disagree - and think it’s wonderful we can!

    Also would possibly fall into why you think you are here in the first place, why you were born. I believe we are here to love each other and all be children of God, and to share His love and accept Him as our savior - whereas others believe we just die and that is it.
     
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  4. OkRad

    OkRad μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος οὐλομένην V.I.P Member

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    It is not a good idea because you never know when life may change. In countries where it is legal, the cases are often not clear cases. In Canada, there is a spate of people who are coerced into doing it when they want to live. They don't MAKE them do it, but simply withhold care but offer the elixir. That is scary. In the end, I really don't know and people have so many opinions and I can't disregard them, but it is worth the debate. I hope you are not thinking of doing it, BTW.
     
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  5. Progster

    Progster Gone sideways to the sun V.I.P Member

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    For me at least, it's not a crime to end one's own life, nor is it a religious matter for me, as I don't believe in the idea of a god giving or taking away life. It's usually a result of mental health issues that can lead to a bad, irreversible, spur of the moment decision. Mental health issues can be helped; such a waste of life. So it's important that if someone is having suicidal thoughts, to seek help, to talk to someone about their problems and how they feel, try to distract themselves from these feelings and to try to work out a different solution.

    I think that assisted suicide should be legal, under certain conditions and limitations. If a person is terminally ill and is inevitably going to suffer a painful and horrible death, then why should they not have the option to end their life peacefully, with dignity, when they choose? The idea that, at the end, one might be in pain, lose control over body and mind, lose one's dignity, is too much for some people. Some people want this option to have some control over the process of dying, and that's understandable, why shouldn't they?
     
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  6. 1ForAll

    1ForAll Active Member

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    I can just say I had those feelings when I was in my teens and early twenties, but I knew there were better days out there for me, and I personally felt it could be seen as a selfish act to permanently adversely affect the one family member who was like me and who truly cared, and who I felt would have worsened health and happiness, and a more lonely life if I did that.

    Even if I did not have him as a great friend then though, I know I would not have given up, as deep within I knew I was a good person despite low self-worth, all the negativity directed at me, and despite all the pain and bad times I had, and I felt I deserved to be happier in life. Also, in one way, it's like I wanted to indirectly tell the others against me or that did not treat me good, that:

    "You know. I may look, weak, shy, depressed, anxious, and fearful now, and avoid all, and you may have won the battle, but I know I am a really a good person, and I will not let you determine my fate. You may not see this now, and you may not ever, but one day I will overcome this, and use what I learned to help not only myself, but others. And I haven't seen how great life is yet, but I will."

    And once I left home at age eighteen, I never looked back. I struggled to start, but I felt without all that daily negativity around me, I would have a better chance to think, feel, and see the good out there, or to find the good within myself, and in others. I knew I needed to start not letting others, society and situations define my happiness and success, and I knew this required honesty, research, and regular efforts through a redirection of those many daily negative energies.

    Am I the type that jumps up and down in joy now for things? Heck no. That is not me, for anything! But, I am content with life now, have experienced much good and great things in my life, and I am not depressed, anxious or fearful, about life and people. Those are things of the past. To me, that makes life worth living, and had I decided not to live, I would have felt not only did I forever harm that person I loved, but I would have let all those others win.

    I am not saying your life was like mine, but I feel the mind is a very powerful tool. We can use it to cause our self-destruction, or use it to help us learn and grow. Whether you need meds, therapy, or more support persons, or find ways through inquires and research to help yourself, I have belief in you, as you are here, and as your are engaging. You are asking questions, and wanting others' opinions. That is a huge start to helping yourself find out how you can continue to live as a more happy and healthy person.
     
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  7. SimonSays

    SimonSays Time is an illusion I seem to have a lot of V.I.P Member

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    Fortunately it's not all societies that think this way. There are more enlightened ones out there, especially in Europe.

    The procedure to ensure that there is time for such a decision to be made properly may vary, as there will be differences in protocol in the countries that allow it. But in principle, it is a decision that all humans should be able to make and be supported in, especially regarding painful suffering or the imminent loss of quality-of-life that the individual feels isn't something they want to experience or put their family through.
     
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  8. SimonSays

    SimonSays Time is an illusion I seem to have a lot of V.I.P Member

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  9. phantom

    phantom Active Member

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    Dont worry, assisted suicide isn't legal for someone with my issues here so unfortunately im going to have to stick around.
     
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  10. Au Naturel

    Au Naturel Au Naturel

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    It is your body and your life. You are the owner and sole occupant. I am of the opinion that you have the *right* to end it at any time for any reason. I am also of the opinion that in most cases it is a really bad idea. People who kill themselves are usually not thinking rationally. Especially young people. They don't have a clue what the future will bring.

    Men tend to kill themselves. Women attempt it far more and succeed far less. Of course, this is not an absolute rule, it is culturally mediated.

    The person who commits suicide who is thinking straight would be the person confronted by a terminal illness that will result in an extended period of pain and loss of all control over life. I think it is then a reasonable choice, especially if you wait until the pain or loss of control becomes unreasonable. You can hypothesize other situations but pretty soon they get preposterous.
     
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  11. Skittlebisquit

    Skittlebisquit Keep trying to be as amazing as you really are V.I.P Member

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  12. Skittlebisquit

    Skittlebisquit Keep trying to be as amazing as you really are V.I.P Member

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    The real thing @phantom is to open the dialogue. Drop the walls that prevent free expression, see what comes up. The forum is like a playground for the intellectual, and at once a sacred space for those who live apart. Its many things and one thing and joyous.

    So... its a heavy topic, not a nice question exactly. Relates to "did you ever ..."

    Questions of mortality though and self erasure. No there is no reason to end it. Not ever. While breath remains you have yet a chance, no matter the circumstance. It is a matter of Honour.
    Rise Up.
    Be Amazing


    Even if it hurts, like all the time. If that means diapers or special beds or whathave you.

    Fight.
     
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  13. The Pandector

    The Pandector Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    It's clear just how personal this subject is; it isn't just about the terrible issues at hand, it's about how you view life itself. Some think their life is their own, others think of other people or of God. For my part, I believe that God is the creator of life and therefore has the ownership that goes with creation.

    What I don't get is where government comes into it. I could accept--in theory--a law that disallows anybody from taking or being complicit it the taking of another person's life. That seems a matter for government. But I can't see what place the government can claim between a person and God.

    Sad as it is, some people opt to meet their maker as soon as possible. That's between the two of them, and the government sticking their dill pickle fingers into the situation only confuses the matter. It implies that the government is a controlling stakeholder in a person's life. It is not.
     
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  14. Tony Ramirez

    Tony Ramirez Agnostic Christian with Asperger's Syndrome

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    I question suicide for myself. I still struggle with it as I don't see my life getting better.

    I hate when people who's life is going great, married kids great job have the nerve to tell someone who has none of that they should not end their life. They are the worst.

    I believe if your life is so bad as mine is then you have the right to end it. Why live and suffer.
     
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  15. Skittlebisquit

    Skittlebisquit Keep trying to be as amazing as you really are V.I.P Member

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    FIGHT
     
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  16. _eri_bellehumeur

    _eri_bellehumeur Active Member

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    There is no way that we can ever know how long a person has had these feelings or how hard they've fought them. We can't know their life experiences, or internal world and don't know if they have sought help in the past and were turned away or shamed (and now feel like they can't trust people to help), etc. I just don't think it's fair for anybody to decide the circumstances under which it is okay for somebody else to end their suffering. People suffer, and often they go through this for years before they actually get to the point that suicide is the only option they can see.
     
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  17. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

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    That doesn't make any sense. How could we keep alive a person who God has called home? Are we stronger than God?

    I don't believe that is typically the argument, that it's wrong or cruel to allow them to end their suffering. If you can refer me to someone making that argument, that would be helpful, but as far as I know that's not the argument. The only argument against it is a Christian one that we don't have the power to decide a life is over, only God does.

    Seriously, you think that that suffering qualifies you for suicide? You could fill your life with things you love and be joyful the majority of the time, but you fill it with envy and wishes. I'm not married and I lost my job, putting me in the exact circumstances you describe. Do you think I should be unhappy? Do you know why I'm not?
     
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  18. Skittlebisquit

    Skittlebisquit Keep trying to be as amazing as you really are V.I.P Member

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    Respectfully i think that the looping thoughts and maelstrom mention in [suicidal ideation and momentum of ka ]
    Forces out other thoughts, warps perceptual bias. So thats why i said add information, more properly new information. Seek counsel, and describe the whole of the situation. It takes the objective view to see the good sometimes.

    Still though there is no reason to ever quit. Comparisons are really ill advised. It doesnt matter how i live and how awesome i am, according to you. That has nothing to do with it. In fact as awesome as i seem to you? There are people i compare myself to and they are freakin amazing. Its always like that.
     
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  19. Kit

    Kit Well-Known Member

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    I think assisted suicide should only be those who have a terminal illness or are in chronic pain it keeps them from doing anything.
    Thinking of the time I was going through labor when I was having a baby. The pain was so intense I could not do anything but focus on the pain, but if I had to live this way for the rest of my life, I would ask to be euthanized.
     
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  20. Gift2humanity

    Gift2humanity Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    This is only my belief system, I am not saying it is set in stone, it just makes most sense to me.
    In my fifties I started reading a lot of Hinduism, I have faith, but am not religious as such. I don't condone chemical use, yet I got my faith back when using a certain happy-dance drug alone. It was more a spiritual than religious thing.
    This was before I got into Hinduism, it was Hinduism that cemented my belief on suicide, that is is throwing our lives back in the face of the divine creator.
    Anyway, hinduism makes sense to me because they connect divinity with science and maths.

    I learnt that anyone who commits suicide turns into a ghost, their soul does not leave the earth for perhaps centuries and they still have perception and their mental pain only worse. I have seen a couple of ghosts, one when I was skeptic, so I put it down to a dream, once when I was in a spiritualist church, supporting a friend who was on the rostrum practicing mediumship for the first time.

    Things have to make sense to me otherwise being a skeptic I just shut down, which is why a lot of new age stuff didn't wash with me, yet hinduism touched something in me.

    Hinduism answered a lot of my questions.
    Suicide attracts karma, and we pay a debt in future lifetimes.

    Suicides are minus a body, but still stuck on the earth, a nightmare I don't want for myself, so all thoughts of suicide and death wishes went out of the window. That's why a lot of prisons and derelict mental hospitals are haunted, and certain houses are haunted because the people who died were not at peace.

    It sounds starry but if we think of physics, we are all energy vibrating at different frequencies. The dimension we live in - 5 senses, 3D plane is but one of an infinite number of dimensions only limited by the bounds of the human imagination.

    Everything is energy, electro-magnetic energy, that's the physics.

    The universe is infinitely large, it never ends, there was no beginning and there will be no end in time.

    As for emotions, the word emotion is broken down as energy in motion. We feel emotions in our bodies, we store emotional memories there, that is why we get anxiety in certain parts of our body, blockages like in shoulders, anger when jaws clench and so on.

    The only thing that is real, time wise, is the here and now. Many many people find it enormously beneficial to learn to mediate and be present in this here and now, rather than thinking about the past or worrying about the future.

    Some people struggle to stay present, when they find themselves with a split second of presence, their ego jumps in and comments on it verbally in their mind. For example when I walk in nature, if I get a split second of presence, my internal dialogue goes on about it.

    For these types of people, trauma is blocking them from being present. They have so much of it in their pain body, their ego prevents them from being present as it is too scared to feel these emotions.

    For these people they need to physically feel the pain in their bodies, importantly they need to refrain from re-expereincing it, focusing on it, and identifying with it, they just need to touch in, so to speak, with it, to acknowledge it, they can do exercises to help them. This helps them shift.

    In time, they can then touch in with all of the blockages in their energy field, and not identify or react from their pain body and they can begin the art of being present with their current life and there is less mental chatter, less need to verbalise everything less need to react, less need to fear the worst, and they can feel stronger and more prepared to act in a healthy way in adverse circumstances.

    This is what I am doing at the moment. My goal is to move away from choosing victimhood, setting boundaries, growing a backbone that is strong yet flexible for life's rough bits :) and enjoying the present rather than wasting it by ruminating on the past without resolving past issues, and worrying about the future feeling a victim.

    I used to agree with euthanasia, I live with the guilt of having a healthy cat euthanised as I could not look after her, she was too timid to home, I fostered them. If I was terminally ill and in pain, I would see that as my karma, and have to live though it until the divine creator decided it was my time to go.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
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