What do think the essence of ASD is?

[kay]

What is that one thing all of us share? From being on this forum and just looking around at my family it sometimes seems like there is nothing any of us share other than a label. So is there a common shared trait and what is it? I feel like I am simply operating with a brain set at a different tempo than most everyone else. I think autistics all are operating on their own individual tempo from not only "NTs" but each other as well. It's like most of society is Adagio and I'm set at more of a Largo. (Not so sure about that example because I had to look up tempo and find names for different ones. I am not a music person other than just casually listening and playing around with an uke.) Toss in everything else that makes up our personality and we are a peculiar group of peculiar people. Anyhoo, I think having a rare, odd brain tempo from most everyone else is what the essence of autism is but that's just a thought of course. Curious if anyone else had a better more coherent idea.

 

[Judge]

Fundamental difficulties in interacting and communicating with other humans.

A lot of us get along just fine with animals. However when it comes to our own species, simple contact can be potentially daunting in comparison.

IMO an issue which may not include all of us, but likely most of us. An issue that impacts our quality of life to varying degrees that can alienate us from others over the course of a lifetime.

 

[Aidan49]

impaired social communication combined with emotional, mental, and physical issues. the severity of it depending on where you fall on the spectrum.

 

[Gritches]

A good question. There's something there, something we all share.

It's more than just the label. If someone with diabetes met someone else with diabetes on the street, provided there's no contextual clues they probably wouldn't be aware they share the same condition.

But Aspie-to-Aspie, it's different. I've had the good fortune to meet many Aspies in real life, and it's very interesting. It typically goes the same way every time: we "act NT" at each other until we're comfortable with each other and then we start being ourselves. And when you can be your actual self, who you actually are, with someone else present, it's a magical thing. No pressure to make perfect eye contact. Forgiving their social missteps as they forgive yours. Monotone is fine, grand even.

But even aside from that, haven't you met people IRL who are obviously Aspie? I can pick it out in someone from a mile away and without a shade of doubt in my mind. Of course, I can never ask "Hey, are you autistic?", but with these people I get along in that certain way that I just don't/can't with NTs. You allude to "tempo", but I've always thought of it as "wavelengths" to describe the same thing. It's like they're on one wavelength, and we're on another; and I always figured that's why it's always been so easy for me to pick out my own kind, before I even knew what autism was.

So yeah, there's got to be some sort of "essence" to it. I'm curious what others have to say about this.

 

[Sherlock77]

Fundamental difficulties in interacting and communicating with other humans...

I would agree with that, despite regularly talking to people in public while doing street photography... I have other areas of communication that I struggle with a lot, most notably the expression of emotions...

Like today? I don't know the two of them, thought it would be an interesting photo, I honestly didn't use emotion, simply liked the scene... Is that strange?

 

[Judge]

I would agree with that, despite regularly talking to people in public while doing street photography... I have other areas of communication that I struggle with a lot, most notably the expression of emotions...

Like today? I don't know the two of them, thought it would be an interesting photo, I honestly didn't use emotion, simply liked the scene... Is that strange?

View attachment 43664

Black and white would compliment that stone background relief.

 

[kay]

A good question. There's something there, something we all share.

It's more than just the label. If someone with diabetes met someone else with diabetes on the street, provided there's no contextual clues they probably wouldn't be aware they share the same condition.

But Aspie-to-Aspie, it's different. I've had the good fortune to meet many Aspies in real life, and it's very interesting. It typically goes the same way every time: we "act NT" at each other until we're comfortable with each other and then we start being ourselves. And when you can be your actual self, who you actually are, with someone else present, it's a magical thing. No pressure to make perfect eye contact. Forgiving their social missteps as they forgive yours. Monotone is fine, grand even.

But even aside from that, haven't you met people IRL who are obviously Aspie? I can pick it out in someone from a mile away and without a shade of doubt in my mind. Of course, I can never ask "Hey, are you autistic?", but with these people I get along in that certain way that I just don't/can't with NTs. You allude to "tempo", but I've always thought of it as "wavelengths" to describe the same thing. It's like they're on one wavelength, and we're on another; and I always figured that's why it's always been so easy for me to pick out my own kind, before I even knew what autism was.

So yeah, there's got to be some sort of "essence" to it. I'm curious what others have to say about this.

I like the wavelengths thought. And yes, I've recognized it in people two blocks away and I mean that literally. But what that something is? I have nothing else in common really with that person from two blocks away other than that elusive something. We no longer talk though we weren't mad at each other or anything, just no reason. I see that something in family members but have a hard time still with conversation because despite sharing that ASD whatever it is we just don't think alike at all. Yet my "NT" husband and me converse with such ease. The one exception in my life where otherwise I find anything over an hour and a half to be tiring even with friends. So I am always searching for why despite shared stimming, lack of eye contact, rocking, ect... I still can't make much connection.

 

[Thinx]

Differently wired brains that cause us to have different communication processes and priorities? I'm on a mission to escape the language of diagnosis because there are many upsides to who we are that fail to be noticed and the world would be a better place if our difference could be acknowledged and valued. Simple and direct? Lacking agendas? Do we think differently? Do we avoid eyes because there's a kind of information download from them that causes confusion?...

 

[kay]

I would agree with that, despite regularly talking to people in public while doing street photography... I have other areas of communication that I struggle with a lot, most notably the expression of emotions...

Like today? I don't know the two of them, thought it would be an interesting photo, I honestly didn't use emotion, simply liked the scene... Is that strange?

View attachment 43664

I like that photo. Something interesting about it.

 

[kay]

Differently wired brains that cause us to have different communication processes and priorities? I'm on a mission to escape the language of diagnosis because there are many upsides to who we are that fail to be noticed and the world would be a better place if our difference could be acknowledged and valued. Simple and direct? Lacking agendas? Do we think differently? Do we avoid eyes because there's a kind of information download from them that causes confusion?...

I avoid eyes because they are too busy or something. Very hard to think and watch eyes at the same time. And other people look at each other a lot and too much in my opinion. I have spent time watching how much others look and it's startling. Gives me the heebie jeebies.

Diagnostic language gets depressing and sometimes makes me mad when I have read through various professional manuals. Sure they use certain terms in a "clinical" way and not as it's used commonly but do you really think they ever learn to separate the two? The terms "non-compliant" and "manipulative" pop up way too much in psych books. And of course we ave to ask ourselves why eye contact matters so much to these people. Blind people can't really do eye contact either. Some cultures don't do eye contact. Why are autistics looked at as so messed up because of that?

 

[Sherlock77]

I like that photo. Something interesting about it.

My main point is that (from my perspective) I use almost zero emotion in my photography, even my photography of other people in street photography... I'm not sure if that bothers me as such, but I definitely use what is mostly an analytical and logical approach... The photo I show is but one example... Yet I also did talk to the two of them briefly...

 

[Thinx]

@kay said, ... I still can't make much connection.[/QUOTE]

Yes I m the same and in early childhood my hope and expectation was to find make significant connection with an other as I think I resonated with an idea I picked up from some fiction reading particularly Rosemary Sutcliffe that a deep friendship bond was the essence of being. But now I think that was a way she storied the wish for connection was expressing her own longings and felt experience plus the way I want to communicate may be experienced as too simple somehow for most others given general NT norms as we are all enculturated to those norms? ...

 

[kay]

My main point is that (from my perspective) I use almost zero emotion in my photography, even my photography of other people in street photography... I'm not sure if that bothers me as such, but I definitely use what is mostly an analytical and logical approach... The photo I show is but one example... Yet I also did talk to the two of them briefly...

I think I may understand. Maybe it's the way other artists talk about their work in ways I just can't understand. It's not that I have no emotion, I do, but how they get all that emotion into a painting of a a kid on a bike I just can't figure out. My artist statements tend to read a lot different from most others. Anyhoo, you took a nice photo of those two and the trash and the skateboard. For some reason it gets my attention.

 

[Judge]

My main point is that (from my perspective) I use almost zero emotion in my photography, even my photography of other people in street photography... I'm not sure if that bothers me as such, but I definitely use what is mostly an analytical and logical approach... The photo I show is but one example... Yet I also did talk to the two of them briefly...

I could see that. That dealing with the two people was ultimately just a means to an end in getting the shot you wanted. That it's all about the shot- not the people. Which may allow you to compartmentalize any socialization required in getting the shot. You make it work, which is most important given where your real priorities lie.

It's an interesting thought in the ability to compartmentalize conversations as a means to improve our communication with others. At least that's what I see in such an interaction myself. Maybe I'm just downright odd about it all.

Look at my comment. About the texture of stone- not the people at all.

Classic autistic perspective on my part?

 

[Sherlock77]

I think I may understand. Maybe it's the way other artists talk about their work in ways I just can't understand. It's not that I have no emotion, I do, but how they get all that emotion into a painting of a a kid on a bike I just can't figure out. My artist statements tend to read a lot different from most others. Anyhoo, you took a nice photo of those two and the trash and the skateboard. For some reason it gets my attention.

I always find it interesting how other artists and photographers relate emotions to their work, and I do attend lots of different shows...

I could see that. That dealing with the two people was ultimately just a means to an end in getting the shot you wanted. That it's all about the shot- not the people. Which may allow you to compartmentalize any socialization required in getting the shot. You make it work, which is most important given where your real priorities lie.

It's an interesting thought in the ability to compartmentalize conversations as a means to improve our communication with others. At least that's what I see in such an interaction myself. Maybe I'm just downright odd about it all.

Look at my comment. About the texture of stone- not the people at all.

Classic autistic perspective on my part?

I think the logical part for me? To even get that photo I would have likely had to ask, to sneak the photo in would have been very difficult... I know most street photographers would have snuck the photo in, and likely not had as good of a photo... The brief conversation required to get the permission was necessary for what I wanted...

 

[Judge]

I think the logical part for me? To even get that photo I would have likely had to ask, to sneak the photo in would have been very difficult... I know most street photographers would have snuck the photo in, and likely not had as good of a photo... The brief conversation required to get the permission was necessary for what I wanted...

I appreciate your efforts. Frankly I'm not even sure I could do that effectively myself. Apart from not feeling any confidence over photographic composition created around living people. It's a logical means to an end. Well done.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

You say potato

I say....

I don't need to say anything it wasn't a question.

 

[SusanLR]

I like photography also and understand the no emotion part. I rarely photograph people. I did take a photo of the man I was at the car show we attended today. But, then he's the person I am around the most.

As far as people making an issue over eye contact, and they have all my life, I never wanted to talk about the real reason I felt was behind it with them. I'm sure it would offend.
It is difficult to speak while looking in the eyes for me too.
And I've always felt the reason is that action is a type of connection between two people that makes most feel comforting, but, for me uncomfortable.
It is connected to the socialising difficulty in the fact that all that eye contact and hugging or even handshaking
and all the daily greetings,etc.
NTs find so necessary, to me is letting down the wall and allowing others into my inner sanctum.
That is a very difficult thing to do.
Trust is involved in doing that. Another issue for me.
I always go back to the pic of the hand with the brick behind The Wall. Am I taking it down or putting it up?

The lonliness of The Wall is sometimes overwhelming.
Yet the discomfort of letting it down and really connecting or communicating with someone for very long
is so tiring. That is why I am good at living through
acting as I feel others want, but, get tired of doing so.
And it would be a relief to find someone with whom I could just be me around without having to think of how
I am acting.
So I would say the essence for me is to be able to let someone in beyond my wall and be able to trust, connect and be comfortable.
Sensitivity is a part as well.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Taking things literally.
Much more pervasive than I first thought.

Arising partly from :

Individual learning to obtain meaning not
A social structure to obtain meaning.
(Friends, small groups,society)

So often there is no subtext.
NT will assume subtext from social learning.
Which confused us as
Our meaning is clear ie literal from individual learning.

A list of confusions caused by this may be interesting.

 

[Progster]

I think that we have all had the experience of being with a group of people socializing, and feeling shut out and not connecting because of not being able to communicate in the same way as they communicate, the experience of being singled out, treated differently or ignored because people pick up on our being different, we all have social communication difficulties of one kind or another, and we experience the world in a different way to other people, but how exactly we experience it still varies from person to person. If all the active members of this forum were to meet up, they would all be very different, some would get on and some wouldn't, some talk a lot, some very little or not at all, we would all have different personalities, traits and 'baggage' that we've picked up on our journey through life - after all, it's a spectrum.