What a funny coincidence.

[BrokenBoy]

Last night I was contemplating the reasons I don't like Minecraft and today it's revealed that Steve is now the latest DLC fighter for Smash Ultimate.

やれやれだぜ。

 

[Hylian]

The mad lads, I still can't believe they actually added Steve. Seeing him break through the wall was a trip.

 

[UberScout]

Last night I was contemplating the reasons I don't like Minecraft and today it's revealed that Steve is now the latest DLC fighter for Smash Ultimate.

やれやれだぜ。

THIS BETTER NOT BE A JOKE

 

[BrokenBoy]

THIS BETTER NOT BE A JOKE

 

[Misery]

Huh, I knew he was inevitable but I figured they would, ahem, "add" him (sarcastic quotes) as a Mii costume, because they seem to like doing that.

Seems I was wrong. Huh, even the Enderman gets in.

If I had people to play this with I'd probably be quite excited over this.

What's that? "Online?" This concept does not exist in Nintendo-land. Not in any state that can be comprehended, anyway.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

But why though?

 

[BrokenBoy]

Huh, I knew he was inevitable but I figured they would, ahem, "add" him (sarcastic quotes) as a Mii costume, because they seem to like doing that.

Seems I was wrong. Huh, even the Enderman gets in.

If I had people to play this with I'd probably be quite excited over this.

What's that? "Online?" This concept does not exist in Nintendo-land. Not in any state that can be comprehended, anyway.

Nintendo Switch online is a thing and it's useful.

It's also very cheap compared to PSN or whatever Xbox has, as a yearly subscription is only 20 USD.

 

[Misery]

Nintendo Switch online is a thing and it's useful.

It's also very cheap compared to PSN or whatever Xbox has, as a yearly subscription is only 20 USD.

Actually what I meant is the connection quality.

Been there, done that. It's as much of a disaster as it always is, with Nintendo. I gave up on it a few months ago. It's exactly why I havent played Smash in ages.... because I generally expect that when I hit a button in a game, the action happens instantly, not 2 years later. As someone who has been deep into fighting games for a very long time, I dont tolerate even slight lag.

The only thing I ACTUALLY use that console for nowadays is Mario Maker 2, and that works entirely because the connection quality doesnt matter whatsoever for downloading/uploading levels. Well, no, I've also got some arcade stuff on there, but those dont need connections to run.

I've nothing good to say about the other 2 consoles. Not even going to go there.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

I have no clue why Nintendo decided to jump on the freaking bandwagon and made a required subscription service and a stupid required app to play online multiplayer. Really the only things I want a Nintendo Switch for are Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate, Smash, Mario Kart, Super Mario Odyssey, and Breath of the Wild. There is really not much else I want.

It wouldn't be worth the subscription, anyways, since the only decent shooter on the Switch is Splatoon. Not much else.

 

[Misery]

I have no clue why Nintendo decided to jump on the freaking bandwagon and made a required subscription service and a stupid required app to play online multiplayer. Really the only things I want a Nintendo Switch for are Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate, Smash, Mario Kart, Super Mario Odyssey, and Breath of the Wild. There is really not much else I want.

It wouldn't be worth the subscription, anyways, since the only decent shooter on the Switch is Splatoon. Not much else.

Eh, I give them that at least they have some real variety. Which is the reason I bought a Switch in the first place.

The other consoles seem to be all shooters and an attempt to appear as mature as possible. I suppose that's why my PS4 just collects dust. I know I sure wont be buying the next one.

As for Nintendo charging, well... I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Nintendo STILL doesnt "get" the internet. Never have. Probably never will. It's why the connection tends to be legendarily awful. Among other issues.

That being said... whoever said anything about an app being required for online multiplayer? I've never seen nor heard of that, despite having already tested said multiplayer.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Eh, I give them that at least they have some real variety. Which is the reason I bought a Switch in the first place.

The other consoles seem to be all shooters and an attempt to appear as mature as possible. I suppose that's why my PS4 just collects dust. I know I sure wont be buying the next one.

As for Nintendo charging, well... I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Nintendo STILL doesnt "get" the internet. Never have. Probably never will. It's why the connection tends to be legendarily awful. Among other issues.

That being said... whoever said anything about an app being required for online multiplayer? I've never seen nor heard of that, despite having already tested said multiplayer.

I think it's mostly required if you want to join voice chat. Apparently, Nintendo doesn't know how to incorporate voice chat into the games themselves.

I am questioning how knowledgable of coding Nintendo actually is.

Also, the Switch has a hard time running games made in Unity and Unreal Engine, since it frame drops a lot. Not to mention that Doom 2016 looks bad on the Switch when compared to other platforms, then you got another problem.

If Nintendo wants to stay competitive when it comes to online gaming in the future, they'll probably have to get bought by another company who is better at net code, such as Valve or something.

Seriously, when I play Roblox games and their servers rubberband a lot (especially with wired connections), the connection is still better than Nintendo server connections.

 

[BrokenBoy]

Ok here's why Minecraft sucks:

I really tend to dislike games with no direction at all. I'm not saying that every game should have be constantly beating you over the head about what you have to do to finish the game but because Minecraft gives you nothing, there's not any sort of "intrigue" that compels the player to keep going. Even in other sandbox games you are given some kind of goal, even if it's a really small one. Like for example, in Grand Theft Auto you are given some missions, but you can avoid doing em and do whatever you want instead. In The Sims your characters have needs you need to take care of, but you can still do whatever your imagination wants. Yeah you can starve to death in Minecraft but this can be turned off so I don't consider that a "core" mechanic in the same way it is like in other games like "Don't Starve". Minecraft feels so directionless I get bored of it in like, 5 minutes.

 

[Misery]

Ok here's why Minecraft sucks:

I really tend to dislike games with no direction at all. I'm not saying that every game should have be constantly beating you over the head about what you have to do to finish the game but because Minecraft gives you nothing, there's not any sort of "intrigue" that compels the player to keep going. Even in other sandbox games you are given some kind of goal, even if it's a really small one. Like for example, in Grand Theft Auto you are given some missions, but you can avoid doing em and do whatever you want instead. In The Sims your characters have needs you need to take care of, but you can still do whatever your imagination wants. Yeah you can starve to death in Minecraft but this can be turned off so I don't consider that a "core" mechanic in the same way it is like in other games like "Don't Starve". Minecraft feels so directionless I get bored of it in like, 5 minutes.

There are goals though. The really major ones are:

1. Find the stronghold. This requires a whole lot of steps. You wont find this through exploration. You just wont.

2. Open the End portal. Defeat the dragon. Requires a good bit of preparation. Defeating the dragon is the victory condition for the game, and triggers the ending (yes, it has an ending).

3. Find the sea temple, and defeat the Elder Guardians.

4. Find the mansion, and conquer the Illagers that guard it.


Other than that, I've always honestly seen Minecraft as a game of goals to begin with. Reason being, there's always SOMETHING that needs doing. But also, one goal can lead to another goal. For instance, in my search for diamonds, I may stumble across an abandoned mine. New side goal: Explore the mine to collect rails. Which then creates another side goal: Build track using those rails for faster travel between important points. And who knows what else I may find important to do.

I've been playing this game for a bloody decade now: I can say with 100% confidence that there is NEVER a point where I dont have some big goal I'm working towards (and probably like 10 side goals at any one time, and who knows what they might be). I've never been the sort of gamer that just flails about and does random things for no reason. I gotta have something to chase after for a game to hold my attention.

The thing about the game though is that it was never good at explaining itself. I can find 5 bazillion goals to go after, but that's because I understand every inch of the game. If you dont know what is out there, why you'd want it, and what you have to do to get it, and how it can help "overall" progression, that's what causes the problem. But when the player gets past that.... oh yes, the game has goals. Many of them.


Dont Starve, since it was mentioned, also does have a goal and a real ending: Your ACTUAL goal is to find and confront Maxwell. That's the game winning condition (and very, very difficult to pull off). Smaller goals that you find as you go are usually related to getting things you need to create something that, for whatever reason, is important. Like getting gears to make an icebox, because of how screwed you will be during the summer if you dont have one. Or exploring the caves to get the things necessary to craft a thermal stone, which can keep you from freezing in winter. There are also important locations to locate, and bosses that need defeating. If the game was JUST about "well dont die and just hang around here forever" it'd be a bit silly. Like Minecraft there is no end to the goals it presents you with. But ALSO like Minecraft... the damn thing wont just tell you what they are. Why? I dunno, I didnt make the game. (on a side note, in Dont Starve, LOTS of things can be turned on and off. The bosses keep crushing you? Wanna skip them? You can turn even those off... For Minecraft, turning off hunger isnt actually related to the normal game mode. That's Creative mode, which is JUST about building. The main mode is Survival, and hunger is always enabled there unless you mod it out)


Generally, if a sandbox game seems aimless... chances are, there really are major goals and even a game-win condition in there. It just aint telling you so. I dont know why devs like making things that way, but at this point I'm used to it.

Anyway, just a bit of explanation. I'm familiar with these games at this point, but I remember when I was first starting with the "sandbox" or "survival" genres, I felt pretty much the same way. Minecraft in particular confused the heck outta me when I initially tried it out.

 

[BrokenBoy]

The thing about the game though is that it was never good at explaining itself. I can find 5 bazillion goals to go after, but that's because I understand every inch of the game. If you dont know what is out there, why you'd want it, and what you have to do to get it, and how it can help "overall" progression, that's what causes the problem. But when the player gets past that.... oh yes, the game has goals. Many of them.

Generally, if a sandbox game seems aimless... chances are, there really are major goals and even a game-win condition in there. It just aint telling you so. I dont know why devs like making things that way, but at this point I'm used to it.

I often see people nowadays complain about usage of cutscenes in games (TLOU 2 didn't help) but what often people fail to realize is that they often convey important information like this.

I'm not saying that Minecraft needed an hour long 100000$ budget FMV or anything, but there definitely should have been something stating the player's primary goal at the beginning. I would have even been fine with a plain black screen with the words "Kill the enderdragon pl0x" then the game instantly booting the player into the gameworld.

 

[Kit]

Nintendo Online often has a problem with lagging so I never play online. But I do like their SNES and NES service and I have been playing Super Mario Picross, I have been wanting that game but it was never released in North America. They have music in it like they had in Picross DS. They did use the old music from Mario Picross games and the puzzles you had to download using the wi fi network. **** region locks. But at least game Boy isn't region locked so I got Mario Picross 2 on ebay from Japan.

I also got SNES and NES controllers for my switch and I like they they sometimes offer free things for Nintendo Online Members so I think the online service is worth it and it has cloud save feature.

 

[Misery]

I often see people nowadays complain about usage of cutscenes in games (TLOU 2 didn't help) but what often people fail to realize is that they often convey important information like this.

I'm not saying that Minecraft needed an hour long 100000$ budget FMV or anything, but there definitely should have been something stating the player's primary goal at the beginning. I would have even been fine with a plain black screen with the words "Kill the enderdragon pl0x" then the game instantly booting the player into the gameworld.

Aye, agreed.

Well, and the other problem you sometimes get is when they DO give a bit of an intro or something... but it's vague or cryptic. Like, Dont Starve has this big opening sequence... Wilson (main character) is failing at his experiments, hears a weird voice come over the radio promising forbidden knowledge, he accepts and builds a machine he doesnt know the purpose of, hits the switch, and gets sucked out of his world. And then wakes up in the place the game actually takes place in with Maxwell (who is unnamed at that point) just saying "Hey, buddy, you dont look so good, you better find food before dark" before vanishing and leaving him there.

And that's it. It DOES clue the player in that there's more going on here, but... I mean, how much can anyone get out of that? Nothing in that sequence actually points the player towards anything other than making them wonder "who was that guy? Is he the villain?".

I notice that games with very heavy lore seem to like doing that sort of really vague thing (and DS does have a TON of lore). You'd think that for games that have a ton of lore they'd make it EASIER to get into since there's already so much to be uncovered.

That all being said, I definitely understand people's complaints about cutscenes. Frankly I cant stand the blasted things most of the time myself.

Nintendo Online often has a problem with lagging so I never play online. But I do like their SNES and NES service and I have been playing Super Mario Picross, I have been wanting that game but it was never released in North America. They have music in it like they had in Picross DS. They did use the old music from Mario Picross games and the puzzles you had to download using the wi fi network. **** region locks. But at least game Boy isn't region locked so I got Mario Picross 2 on ebay from Japan.

I also got SNES and NES controllers for my switch and I like they they sometimes offer free things for Nintendo Online Members so I think the online service is worth it and it has cloud save feature.

Oh geez, region locks. Ugh.

I used to have a PS2 and a 360, right. And I was very into bullet-hell shmups. The PS2 had a ton of them, as did the 360, but... that's in Japan. None of them released here. So, led to a TON of really expensive imports, and also then having to deal with screwball console mods (a very common way to break region locks at the time).

I've honestly never understood the point of that concept. It's like, dagnabit Sony, I already bought your stupid machine. If I legitimately buy a freaking game, just let me play the blasted thing. It shouldnt matter which incredibly specific version of the same stupid machine I have. I own the machine, I own the game... just let it work.

At least with the Famicom and such it made sense. They were very different machines from what they became in the west. The PS2 and such, they sure didnt have that excuse.

Also Mario Picross was great. I had the original Gameboy version... many fond memories of playing hours upon hours of that.

 

[BrokenBoy]

That all being said, I definitely understand people's complaints about cutscenes. Frankly I cant stand the blasted things most of the time myself.

I have some questions then:

1. Judging by some other posts it seems you like Undertale. Undertale has a lot of cutscenes, even in the fights. A lot of these cutscenes serve little purpose other than humor. What makes the cutscenes in Undertale not annoying unlike in other games?

2. Do you consider dialogue trees (Like in RPG's and adventure games) cutscenes or gameplay?

 

[BrokenBoy]

At least with the Famicom and such it made sense. They were very different machines from what they became in the west.

I really hate Nintendo's dumb censorship stuff back then though. It really screwed over the NES IMO. A lot of amazing genre defining Famicom games were not brought over the NES so the NES library ended up being garbage compared to the Famicom.

I consider myself a "Famicom fan" and not an NES fan for this. Though I have a RetroUSB AVS which I use to play both.

 

[Kit]

Oh geez, region locks. Ugh.

I used to have a PS2 and a 360, right. And I was very into bullet-hell shmups. The PS2 had a ton of them, as did the 360, but... that's in Japan. None of them released here. So, led to a TON of really expensive imports, and also then having to deal with screwball console mods (a very common way to break region locks at the time).

I've honestly never understood the point of that concept. It's like, dagnabit Sony, I already bought your stupid machine. If I legitimately buy a freaking game, just let me play the blasted thing. It shouldnt matter which incredibly specific version of the same stupid machine I have. I own the machine, I own the game... just let it work.

At least with the Famicom and such it made sense. They were very different machines from what they became in the west. The PS2 and such, they sure didnt have that excuse.

Also Mario Picross was great. I had the original Gameboy version... many fond memories of playing hours upon hours of that.

It has to do with money, some games are released sooner in other regions and some cost less in other regions so they do region locks to keep people from buying over seas and to play it in their home country. It's control. Thank capitalism.

Nintendo was the first to region lock their game systems with the NES. They released in 1985 but didn't release in Australia and Europe until 1987. But we have different outlets anyway so it's not like they would have been able to play those darn things because of different electrical standards. But I guess they were thinking of the future when they do release it in other countries.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

There are no reason for region locks anymore. No gamer actually asked for them, that's why people try extremely hard to remove region locks for consoles. Some PC games that are exclusively in non-English languages have fan-made English mods, as well. They don't really care about their fans. They only care about the cash.