Very polite, but unable to connect

[Nummulite]

(I'm not diagnosed, still awaiting assessment)

My partner is on the spectrum, and he's a very talkative, expressive person (hammy, even). He often runs into problems at work or in daily life with people seeing him as obnoxious or rude when he doesn't mean to be. I've seen that this is a problem for a lot of autistic people.

In contrast, I very rarely get accused of being rude or inappropriate. It's one of the reasons it took me so long to seriously consider if I'm autistic.

In almost every kind of social situation, my method is to be as inoffensive and low-risk as possible. I speak softly, I use a lot of pleases and thank-yous, I don't talk more than necessary, I don't give opinions or complaints, I avoid talking about myself, and I don't ask personal questions. People sometimes give me weird looks but they rarely get angry with me.

I used to think this was a sign that I'm socially aware and adept, but my partner has pointed out that I just have a different version of the same problem- I use one tool for every situation, and it isn't always effective. Whereas he just says what he wants and doesn't worry about how people will respond because he can't predict it, I just assume across the board that people will respond negatively to me unless I act in this specific way. It gets me through my day to day life, but in situations that call for familiarity, I can't connect to people. I act this way whether I'm talking to my parents, my employer, or someone making conversation with me at a party (the only person I don't act this way with is my partner). I only have two friends (including my partner), and I think this is partly to blame.

Does anyone else do this? Is this just a social anxiety thing?

 

[Nairobi]

I personally do not think that is a social anxiety thing. Social anxiety was very different for me. But maybe for some people social anxiety can be that way?

I am unable to connect. Even if I feel that we have connected, others do not feel that way at all. I would love to be polite and I try - but I am accused of the opposite. I speak more loudly than I realize and am more blunt and pointed than I realize, when I am just trying to be clear and helpful, but it is taken the wrong way...but I find it hard to control, because I am unaware of doing it while it is happening.

I wish I could dig up a clip from that show "What Not to Wear". There was one guest that I thought was very, very polite and cooperative - quiet, but went along with everything quietly, smiled and nodded the whole way through. And yet, the co-hosts found the dynamic to be very odd, maybe even disturbing? They were really struck by the fact that out of all of the guests they had ever had on the show, they just were unable to form/feel a connection with her - they actually talked about this on camera when she wasn't around. I felt sorry for her - she was being so nice and polite and smiling and coooperative - and yet that wasn't good enough, not just that, it counted against her because they didn't care about that, all of the judgement was on whatever element was missing. I really think that guest had ASD, whether she knew it or not.

Your post made me think of that.

 

[Tom]

It sounds like a set (and more or less successfull) strategy to handle most social situations in non confrontational way.

Difficulty in social situations, and the co-morbid, anxiety, are two of the most common conditions for people on the spectrum. Practically the Lingua Franca of autism. But its not an absolute. I don't think there are any absolutes. Just tendencies that effect this or that percentage of the population.

 

[Nummulite]

I personally do not think that is a social anxiety thing. Social anxiety was very different for me. But maybe for some people social anxiety can be that way?

I am unable to connect. Even if I feel that we have connected, others do not feel that way at all. I would love to be polite and I try - but I am accused of the opposite. I speak more loudly than I realize and am more blunt and pointed than I realize, when I am just trying to be clear and helpful, but it is taken the wrong way...but I find it hard to control, because I am unaware of doing it while it is happening.

I wish I could dig up a clip from that show "What Not to Wear". There was one guest that I thought was very, very polite and cooperative - quiet, but went along with everything quietly, smiled and nodded the whole way through. And yet, the co-hosts found the dynamic to be very odd, maybe even disturbing? They were really struck by the fact that out of all of the guests they had ever had on the show, they just were unable to form/feel a connection with her - they actually talked about this on camera when she wasn't around. I felt sorry for her - she was being so nice and polite and smiling and coooperative - and yet that wasn't good enough, not just that, it counted against her because they didn't care about that, all of the judgement was on whatever element was missing. I really think that guest had ASD, whether she knew it or not.

Your post made me think of that.

You sound similar to my partner, he sometimes drives people away with his bluntness when he thinks he's being helpful. When I was younger I used to have a habit of correcting people a lot, because I thought they would want to know that they were wrong (but I was told it was annoying, so now I try to avoid it). I think it's a similar impulse

I probably would have behaved the same way as that woman if I were on the show. It's interesting to hear someone describe what it looks like from an outside perspective

 

[watersprite]

Sometimes I am like that, quiet and polite, behind an invisible wall, and other times I am more like your partner. It is like my social dial has a mind of its own.

 

[Suzette]

Social anxiety feels like stage fright every time you are around other people. I get hyper aware of eye contact; too much? Not enough? Can they tell I am looking between their eyes?
Do I look morose? Should I not smile so much? Did anyone notice I crossed and recrossed my legs 10 times? Oh, Janet wants a good by hug, I hate that, does she know I am hugging her like she is a dead fish? Oh, this topic is interesting, I have something to say, but wait, my comment...dang, the conversation has changed and I never got a chance. Why are they talking about that? Who is that person anyway? I better not admit I don't know. There laugh a little did I laugh too loud? Omg I am getting a head ache. Smile and nod. Why can't I get a word in? Are they shutting me out? .....

 

[Nummulite]

It sounds like a set (and more or less successfull) strategy to handle most social situations in non confrontational way.

Difficulty in social situations, and the co-morbid, anxiety, are two of the most common conditions for people on the spectrum. Practically the Lingua Franca of autism. But its not an absolute. I don't think there are any absolutes. Just tendencies that effect this or that percentage of the population.

That's the main thing I wonder about. I know that I have social anxiety, I was diagnosed as a teenager and I definitely feel very anxious in social situations, but it's hard for me to pin down the flow of cause and effect. Maybe I'm on the spectrum, and people's reaction to my natural lack of social skills caused me to develop social anxiety, or maybe I'm not, and having social anxiety just prevented me from developing social skills properly. I think I would have to learn more about what I was like as a kid (I'm still waiting for an opportunity talk to my mom about this)

 

[Nummulite]

Social anxiety feels like stage fright every time you are around other people. I get hyper aware of eye contact; too much? Not enough? Can they tell I am looking between their eyes?
Do I look morose? Should I not smile so much? Did anyone notice I crossed and recrossed my legs 10 times? Oh, Janet wants a good by hug, I hate that, does she know I am hugging her like she is a dead fish? Oh, this topic is interesting, I have something to say, but wait, my comment...dang, the conversation has changed and I never got a chance. Why are they talking about that? Who is that person anyway? I better not admit I don't know. There laugh a little did I laugh too loud? Omg I am getting a head ache. Smile and nod. Why can't I get a word in? Are they shutting me out? .....

Yep, this is my head whenever I'm around people- and the more people there are, the more mental calculations I have to do. It's exhausting. I'm really envious of people that seem to do it all without even thinking

 

[Nairobi]

That's the main thing I wonder about. I know that I have social anxiety, I was diagnosed as a teenager and I definitely feel very anxious in social situations, but it's hard for me to pin down the flow of cause and effect. Maybe I'm on the spectrum, and people's reaction to my natural lack of social skills caused me to develop social anxiety, or maybe I'm not, and having social anxiety just prevented me from developing social skills properly. I think I would have to learn more about what I was like as a kid (I'm still waiting for an opportunity talk to my mom about this)

I actually would strive for this as a good replacement for my current "blunt and no connection" issue. I wish I could remember to just hold my tongue and think of something bland to say - to just be more bland around people other than my inner circle (which currently just consists of one person, my husband!). But do you think that for you this strategy is based in fear of dropping a mask? Are you trying to get away from it - or are you just wishing you could also forge connections? What do you think you'd be like if you dropped the mask?

 

[jleeb05]

(I'm not diagnosed, still awaiting assessment)

My partner is on the spectrum, and he's a very talkative, expressive person (hammy, even). He often runs into problems at work or in daily life with people seeing him as obnoxious or rude when he doesn't mean to be. I've seen that this is a problem for a lot of autistic people.

In contrast, I very rarely get accused of being rude or inappropriate. It's one of the reasons it took me so long to seriously consider if I'm autistic.

In almost every kind of social situation, my method is to be as inoffensive and low-risk as possible. I speak softly, I use a lot of pleases and thank-yous, I don't talk more than necessary, I don't give opinions or complaints, I avoid talking about myself, and I don't ask personal questions. People sometimes give me weird looks but they rarely get angry with me.

I used to think this was a sign that I'm socially aware and adept, but my partner has pointed out that I just have a different version of the same problem- I use one tool for every situation, and it isn't always effective. Whereas he just says what he wants and doesn't worry about how people will respond because he can't predict it, I just assume across the board that people will respond negatively to me unless I act in this specific way. It gets me through my day to day life, but in situations that call for familiarity, I can't connect to people. I act this way whether I'm talking to my parents, my employer, or someone making conversation with me at a party (the only person I don't act this way with is my partner). I only have two friends (including my partner), and I think this is partly to blame.

Does anyone else do this? Is this just a social anxiety thing?

I can relate to this. From working with people on the spectrum, I find that people tend to send them as "rude" or just generally, unlikable. I recall, someone calling me "obnoxious" on some anonymous forum in college. To this day, I have no idea why. Like you, I'm generally likable, low-key, inoffensive. I also thought it was because I was socially adept and that this was proof that I didn't have autism. It was recently pointed out to me that this is actually because I had learned to adapt and mask.

I've noticed I tend to smile a lot and sometimes wonder what the heck I'm smiling for? I'm just very agreeable but also have trouble connecting with people on a deeper level. So I don't think this is just a social anxiety thing. It sounds like you've learned how to navigate social situations in a way that you find predictable. I'm not going to put a value judgement on whether this is a good or bad thing but I think many of us do it to some extent.

 

[Nummulite]

I actually would strive for this as a good replacement for my current "blunt and no connection" issue. I wish I could remember to just hold my tongue and think of something bland to say - to just be more bland around people other than my inner circle (which currently just consists of one person, my husband!). But do you think that for you this strategy is based in fear of dropping a mask? Are you trying to get away from it - or are you just wishing you could also forge connections? What do you think you'd be like if you dropped the mask?

If you can learn how, it's definitely a good strategy for maintaining the status quo, keeping your job, avoiding conflict, etc. That list of "rules" I gave in my original post is basically all you need to memorize (along with remembering to smile a lot, which is hit-or-miss for me because it's easy to overdo it).

I want to make more connections, but I've found that the mask doesn't change much whether I'm with someone I want to connect with or not. Part of the problem is that I just don't know what else to say or do when people talk to me. I don't know what kinds of things will bring me closer to people and what will drive them away.

I was able to get close to my partner because he has so little social filter. He's very straightforward and its easy to tell how he's feeling. Within a short time of knowing him, I quickly learned that I could just be myself.

If I were to drop the mask, I would probably act more like I do when I'm with him. I have times when I'm very quiet and times when I'm extremely chatty. I just say whatever comes to mind without worrying about it, and in some situations I'll even make weird sounds instead of using words. I share actual opinions about things, and I like philosophizing and examining things at length (lots of times we'll start having meta-conversations about our conversation).

I don't really like bland people, it's just the easiest and safest kind of person to be

 

[QuestJan]

Does anyone else do this? Is this just a social anxiety thing?

I started off just like you until I was in my mid-30s. Then really bad things started happening to me and I became as you describe your partner being (little social filter, very straightforward & full of opinions, and my feelings on my sleeve).

I would like to travel the middle way, but I am oversteering from shutdown to no filter. You are so lucky to have a partner that you feel so safe with. It is stabilizing

from

 

[Nummulite]

I can relate to this. From working with people on the spectrum, I find that people tend to send them as "rude" or just generally, unlikable. I recall, someone calling me "obnoxious" on some anonymous forum in college. To this day, I have no idea why. Like you, I'm generally likable, low-key, inoffensive. I also thought it was because I was socially adept and that this was proof that I didn't have autism. It was recently pointed out to me that this is actually because I had learned to adapt and mask.

I've noticed I tend to smile a lot and sometimes wonder what the heck I'm smiling for? I'm just very agreeable but also have trouble connecting with people on a deeper level. So I don't think this is just a social anxiety thing. It sounds like you've learned how to navigate social situations in a way that you find predictable. I'm not going to put a value judgement on whether this is a good or bad thing but I think many of us do it to some extent.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I think in my case it's mainly a good thing, just limited. I wish I could be more adaptable.

I relate to the smiling thing too, I'll often just keep a smile plastered on my face for an entire conversation because I know its friendly. I've noticed that other people smile off and on during conversations, but it's not as simple as "smile at good things, don't smile at bad things", so I don't always know when to stop and start.

 

[Nummulite]

I started off just like you until I was in my mid-30s. Then really bad things started happening to me and I became as you describe your partner being (little social filter, very straightforward & full of opinions, and my feelings on my sleeve).

I would like to travel the middle way, but I am oversteering from shutdown to no filter. You are so lucky to have a partner that you feel so safe with. It is stabilizing

from

That's really interesting, I didn't realize that could happen. I'm sorry you had such bad experiences. Did you change the way you presented on purpose, in response to what you went through? or did you seem to change automatically?

I am really lucky, I don't know where we'd be right now if we hadn't met.

 

[Thinx]

I don't want to assume you're female, as you haven't said, but I would say this sounds fairly typical of the female socialisation effect on an Aspie. It's part of why we are less likely to be recognised or to recognise ourselves. Male socialisation typically imposes less limitations on behaviours.

 

[Progster]

It's a strategy to cope with social situations, and quite common I think, especially for females. As @Thinx mentions, it's the reason why many females on the spectum go undiagnosed.
I was known to be a feisty, moody and erratic child that spoke her mind in class, but by the time I got to high school, I was quiet, withdrawn, not active and not participating. The basic reason being that I got into trouble a lot for saying the wrong thing or offending people, and had a few bad experiences so in reaction to this I adopted the strategy of withdrawing not speaking much, only saying things that are 'safe'. As I've grown older, I've reversed this to some extent - improved my social skills and now am more confident about speaking to people. Sometimes I speak out (and risk offending or annoying people) and other times I'm silent. Depends on my mood or energy levels.

 

[1ForAll]

(I'm not diagnosed, still awaiting assessment)

My partner is on the spectrum, and he's a very talkative, expressive person (hammy, even). He often runs into problems at work or in daily life with people seeing him as obnoxious or rude when he doesn't mean to be. I've seen that this is a problem for a lot of autistic people.

In contrast, I very rarely get accused of being rude or inappropriate. It's one of the reasons it took me so long to seriously consider if I'm autistic.

In almost every kind of social situation, my method is to be as inoffensive and low-risk as possible. I speak softly, I use a lot of pleases and thank-yous, I don't talk more than necessary, I don't give opinions or complaints, I avoid talking about myself, and I don't ask personal questions. People sometimes give me weird looks but they rarely get angry with me.

I used to think this was a sign that I'm socially aware and adept, but my partner has pointed out that I just have a different version of the same problem- I use one tool for every situation, and it isn't always effective. Whereas he just says what he wants and doesn't worry about how people will respond because he can't predict it, I just assume across the board that people will respond negatively to me unless I act in this specific way. It gets me through my day to day life, but in situations that call for familiarity, I can't connect to people. I act this way whether I'm talking to my parents, my employer, or someone making conversation with me at a party (the only person I don't act this way with is my partner). I only have two friends (including my partner), and I think this is partly to blame.

Does anyone else do this? Is this just a social anxiety thing?

I relate a lot to what you say. In my earlier years I was diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder, Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder, mostly, as I was always very soft spoken, polite, socially nervous, more passive and non-confrontational, with limited social skills in person, and I worried much what others thought and felt about me socially much, with me being too self-conscious about my social appearance and deficiencies.

I always was being brief, more passive and modest in my spoken conversations, very often saying Thanks, Please and Sorry, a lot, too, reacting to specific questions mostly instead of initiating, being opinionated and expressing too much. I then could not seem to break out of that pattern for most all persons, except my wife, kids and brother, whom I then could be more myself and talk about everything freely, and not worry so much.

Then I had lots of mistrust of others, combined with low social self-esteem issues, and if you combine that with being so introverted, avoidant of and not around persons much of my life, and less experiences there communicating, it makes sense why I would then have had to be more on guard, respectful and cautious, so as to reduce the chances of being critiqued and rejected, which was so common prior. I admit I have made improvements there though, through self-help efforts, but still at times I revert back to those ways.

I too am on the fence whether I have ASD or not, as online tests rate my score as on the very low end, and even though a recent doctor diagnosed it, I am not so sure. Yes, I had very poor in-person social skills, poor eye contact, a hyper-logical mind, OCD tendencies, and hyper-focuses of interest as well, like with Math, Statistics, music, writing, and behavioral health. And I am extremely fixated on details, too, for everything.

But, lots of stereotypical components of ASD I seem to lack and I have other abilities that may not seem typical for several of those with Autism, too. For instance, I do not have any sensory issues other than being very hypervigilant and keen to everything going on around me--using all my senses there. I do not have any fine or gross motor issues, and as I love playing all sports.

Also, I have high emotional intelligence, and I have no difficulties with idioms, figurative language, and understanding body language and what people are likely thinking and feeling from what I sense, see and hear, but knowing which traits they likely are hiding as well, through my deep analyses there. As well, I can be very spontaneous at any time, if the situation called for that. And meltdowns are very rare.

Online it's a different story, regarding how I express, as I am so used to communicating through writing and I have confidence there and do not fear as much talking everything, and others not liking me, as my focus is on assisting, more than to get support, friends or other as I do not need much in my life else to make me happy. So, I focus on just giving there, and not talking about me, unless to help another.

Back in my earlier years, through my thirties, the goal was to take it slow and cautious until I knew others or their intentions more. I felt being polite and not saying much would less cause them to reject or critique me, and it would give me enough time then to see if I had anything in common with them or could ever trust them to be myself. I was this way with my wife when dating her, too, until I opened more to her.

As I am less needy now, and am more positive, less worrying and more secure with who I am, I could be more free with my words to others in-person if I wanted too, but as I do not need any other, like I said, I usually put forth less efforts and stay polite and brief, as it was what I was always accustomed to. It's as if I do not have the time anyway, as I have so much here going on, and responsibilities there. That's why I am not on many forums and do not post often. I do so, only when I have a short break.

 

[Nairobi]

It's a strategy to cope with social situations, and quite common I think, especially for females. As @Thinx mentions, it's the reason why many females on the spectum go undiagnosed.
I was known to be a feisty, moody and erratic child that spoke her mind in class, but by the time I got to high school, I was quiet, withdrawn, not active and not participating. The basic reason being that I got into trouble a lot for saying the wrong thing or offending people, and had a few bad experiences so in reaction to this I adopted the strategy of withdrawing not speaking much, only saying things that are 'safe'. As I've grown older, I've reversed this to some extent - improved my social skills and now am more confident about speaking to people. Sometimes I speak out (and risk offending or annoying people) and other times I'm silent. Depends on my mood or energy levels.

Kind of random, but this whole idea of people restraining/retraining themselves makes me think of this song that I really like. Everyone is free to ignore if they want.

les balayeurs du desert - decollage

i've learned to clip my wings
and soften my ways
i've learned
these are ordinary things

like you'd estimate, just average
but evidently he does not agree
like you'd estimate, just average
but I've learned to clip my wings
and soften my ways

 

[AprilR]

What you describe as your behavior in social situations is very similar to mine. I also have trouble connecting with people on an emotional level and i smile all the time, act very polite so people dont catch on to the fact that i am different. Whenever i let the mask drop a little their behaviour change drastically. I am scared of their cruelty.

 

[dragonfire42]

This is exactly the same as what I do. Most of the stuff I see people talk about or questionnaires ask about is getting into trouble by saying things that are unintentionally rude, offensive, etc. I don’t usually, but it isn’t because I’m good at predicting how people react, it’s because I’m extremely worried about what other people will think of me, and my default is to not say anything.

I have unintentionally become exceptionally good at avoiding drawing any kind of attention, positive or negative, to myself. Since I have never been able to successfully “mask,” this is what I have learned to do instead. It’s more of “hiding,” without any sort of mask to put up in place of anything. It’s so ingrained in me that I don’t even know how to not do it anymore. I call it “social invisibility,” and equate myself to a fake potted plant (a real one at least gets watered occasionally), people see me enough that they don’t run into me or anything, and I may even get a perfunctory acknowledgment of some kind at first, but otherwise as far as anyone else is concerned, I don’t exist. I camouflage, but instead of blending in with others, I just blend into the background (which seems more like true camouflage to me).