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trying to meet others:

watchman84

New Member
this is my second post on here and i do not come on here much but i decided to try this site out again today since i had so many positive users welcome me, so here it is, i always come across strange when i try to talk to other people, mainly woman and as a user did point out to me once i am not normal which makes me feel down mainly since i am trying to meet a woman to date which i have had a hard time always.

i wanted to post this not as much for the advice but as a way to just get this out of my system, i am a virgin and i am very lonely and i feel awful, i have zero skills with women, and i hate it. much of it comes from what i have and i really feel my self-esteem is not what it needs to be at all too. the woman i have known have used me and lied to me and they have made me feel awful inside. i sometimes start to wonder if i ever will have a woman like me for me? but thank you for all reading this too.
 
Normality is relative. What is fine for you might seem odd to others. With autism you will likely encounter plenty of people who can be rude because of how you behave. This can then be turned inwards and you start playing the blame game - convincing yourself you're defective or abnormal.

A lot of us will mask in a bid to appear normal and try and reduce the friction that our behaviour can cause. Stimming, verbal tics and suchlike can be alarming and unnerving to those who have little to no experience of autism.

I know there are some on here who struggle with finding someone right for them. I have dated a lot over the years, but I'm single now - which shows that even those who do end up dating might struggle to find someone who is right for them.

There's plenty of knowledge to be found on this forum. Friendly and understanding people with experiences and stories to share. As for socialising - it's different for everyone. I personally found I had to stick with it, practice more and more. It was sort of exposure therapy I guess, because it made me feel uncomfortable or anxious - but the more I did it, the better I got.

I'm no Casanova, but I find it less stressful these days. I still find I don't get on with most people, but the mask is to be polite and helpful, even around those I'm not keen on.

Therapy is an option too, as is finding local groups which play to your interests or talents etc. For me, I enjoy staffing - so I go out to parks and staff a lot. This year I made a simple change, I started staffing closer to footpaths. This enabled me to start talking to lots of random people who were walking through the park, this also helped build confidence.

With negative experiences it's very easy to turn this in on yourself and blame yourself and feel stigmatised, traumatised and downtrodden. A lot of progress in life comes down to managing your expectations and working on changing your beliefs. We often live with a lot of overly critical and false beliefs about ourselves.

Anxiety and depression is particularly common with Autism as well as catastrophic thinking. These issues can make things like socialising and dating difficult. Sometimes it feels like our brains are just wired to worry or obsess more. Fixate on stuff until we feel utterly overwhelmed by. it But, as the saying goes "practice makes perfect" and if you keep at it, and approach socialising or dating with a more open mind, as opposed to assuming you might make people feel awkward, or assuming that people might lie to you or treat you badly etc. then you might see more fruitful results. The main issue is how to process when things don't work out how you wanted it to. You have to pick yourself up and keep trying, rather than wallowing in the past or replaying traumatic events etc. Easier said than done, I know. I struggle with fixating on the above a lot. I know it's unhelpful behaviour, so I really have to push myself to let go of previous issues. As a for instance my first gf cheated on me - so I assumed others (if not all) would. In the end another 2 did. But oddly enough I don't do anywhere near as much fidelity scanning and obsessing over whether or not someone would cheat on me. I find worrying about events can actually make them an anti-climax if they happen and that is a big if.

I posted this on another post recently, but with regards to not feeling normal etc, this might shed some light. It's a book written by a therapist who is Autistic:

The Trouble with Normal
The trouble with "normal," as Bruce Coburn tells us in his distinctively Canadian socio-political folk song, is it always gets worse. So-called "normal" people struggle to become "better than normal," and those who find themselves set apart by their uniqueness and/or challenges torture themselves because they wish they were "more normal." "Normal" is an exclusive club whose membership is based on an illusion. It's easy to pinpoint the "statistically average." Insurance adjusters do it all the time. "Normal" is everywhere and nowhere. It is normal to fall into different ranges of diversity in different areas. it is normal for some people to be outside the range of conventional social expectation and be outrageously different. No one is completely "normal." It is a target that doesn't exist, yet we hold fast to this precarious ideal and beat each other (and ourselves) up over it.

"If only I could be more normal," we say, and treat the blessings that make us who we are as if they were some kind of pestilence. Yet is it not all our fault. Mainstream society, the statistically average and dominant, hold on to social expectations and conventional standards as if they were membership requirements. When a person does not fit the image of what the majority expects everyone to be like, there is a harsh judgement of unworthiness. Membership in the clique of the "normal" is denied. A person who isn't careful can internalize this judgement and stigmatize themselves as not good enough. Stigma does untold personal and social damage.

Rather than basing trust on acceptance on meeting "normal" social expectations and conventional standards, we can ground ourselves in curiosity and allow other people's uniqueness to speak to us. It is natural to reserve trust until it is earned, but that doesn't mean we have to reject others on the basis of certain qualities. When people don't meet our expectations, it is expectation itself we need to release. Philosophers and spiritual leaders have long been telling us how expectations get us in trouble. Beating ourselves up because we don't meet "normal" expectations is a sure ticket to Ghost Town. It is normal to experience anxiety and depression. It is normal to get caught up in narrow self-absorbed prejudices, coping mechanisms and quirky habits. It is normal to panic when we feel distress and think it will get worse. It is normal to have challenges to contend with in life. It is especially normal to not feel "normal."

[...]

Let's be different proudly, keep learning who we are, and do what we have to do to take care of ourselves and each other. Let's flow with what makes us different and explore the differences between us rather than pushing each other away and not feeling good enough. What a silly bunch we are."


Ed
 
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I know this is very likely useless advice but it actually worked for me. I threw things at the girl I fancied. But not harmful things like bricks or daggers. My first date was with a girl I threw pebbles at. I married the woman I lobbed a orange at over the room divider. Maybe it was humor rather than the actual projectiles. ;)
 
Today I spent the morning at breakfast with the bike club I belong to followed by a nice hike at the National Lakeshore we live near. I have never been good at socializing and my spouse continues to give me reminders. But it is good practice. I do not make friends easily but at breakfast was sitting across from a couple new to the club. I went out of my way to make them feel welcome, and found that it was not hard. And during the hike talked with others. I had a great time on the leaf covered trails and seeing Salmon still coming into the creek from Lake Michigan. Just these interactions make me feel good about myself, and convinces me that should the need for companionship arise I will be prepared to make the most of my life. Plus, it makes me willing to support these people if circumstances make care necessary.
 
Maybe this isn't the right place, but I'm new here, and I've seen several threads/questions similar to this one.

There's no "magic wand" for meeting people, but many aspects of the process are essentially social protocols that can be learned.

None of it is easy to learn though, hence my comment about the magic wand. NT's pick it up as they go along, and by and large people on the spectrum don't - which means there's a lot of "catching up" to do.

There's also something that concerns me a little - a quick internet search suggests there are people on the spectrum who are not in favor of what I think is called "masking" (not sure though - it's like, but not the same as, what I do). I think of it as "simulating NT behavior when it suits me".
So just to be clear - no part of this post is intended as a political statement, nor as a criticism of other people. I'll remove it (or maybe move it elsewhere) if anyone objects.
 
What if the wrong people approach me like couples? Anyway the OP does not have it as bad as I do. I am ignored so I never dated or even been approached by an single girl. But I don't want to hijack this post like I did before. I am sorry for that.

Also back to the OP topic. Small talk is key and I am terrible at it. I can say a few words back then its silence and then the person walks away. I get this with couples too even though they do most of the talking.
 
What if the wrong people approach me like couples? Anyway the OP does not have it as bad as I do. I am ignored so I never dated or even been approached by an single girl. But I don't want to hijack this post like I did before. I am sorry for that.

Also back to the OP topic. Small talk is key and I am terrible at it. I can say a few words back then its silence and then the person walks away. I get this with couples too even though they do most of the talking.
I think the "tell" here is your reference to wrong people. That probably comes through loud and clear, as well as you expecting the "right people" to be presented to you gift wrapped. Learn to ask simple questions then listen to and respond to the answers. If you can't even do that with the "wrong people" you are not going to meet the right people, because there you need to sell yourself and all I can see is a go away sign that you are clearly waving. Harsh, but you need some serious self adjustment.

@watchman84 feels negative about themself and that colors a lot of interaction. I was that, in spades, and once rejected a proposition because of the way I felt about my inexperience. The way out of that hole is to first see yourself as a unique, valuable person, then practice socializing when you can. And, establish personal ethics and boundaries to recognize users. What I wrote earlier is how I continue to practice and I am not dismissive of anybody unless they act inapropriately. And, I am getting better at it especially as I see those people as worth knowing.
 
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I am starting not to like this place any more. I really don't want to hijack the post but yet again I am put down by the same people here who say I am not doing the right thing. You don't live my life. You have no idea how hard it is to socialize and to see all those "happy" couples where I am middle aged and never even been on an date.
 
I am starting not to like this place any more. I really don't want to hijack the post but yet again I am put down by the same people here who say I am not doing the right thing. You don't live my life. You have no idea how hard it is to socialize and to see all those "happy" couples where I am middle aged and never even been on an date.
Of course you mean me. Your resentment comes through loud and clear and you apparently see no need to change. So, how's that working for you? Women your age in the same situation are probably terribly shy. Do you think that they are willing to approach somebody who they can see does not have an accepting demeanor? What do you exhibit that will quell their anxiety? C'mon show us your plan to change and I bet you will get a lot of support here.

If getting your V-card punched is so important, it is $1,600 for a roundtrip ticket to Bangkok, and good hotels are less than $100/night. And if you aren't up for the scene at soi Cowboy or Nana Plaza, escorts are not too expensive and the good ones can give you a girlfriend experience. Then maybe you will have an attitude adjustment when that is out of the way.
 
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@Tony Ramirez

Of course you're not liking what people here are saying to you .
They don't have any magic answers for you.

You say you expect girls to approach you.
Why would they?
What about you is so appealing that a girl would say to herself
*Hey, that guy is probably a lot of fun to be with. I'll go talk to him.*?
 
I thought this was an forum where Aspies could express themselves without being put down. Every time I post an comment I am talked about being rude and selfish. I don't know what to say here anymore. Also I again apologize for yet again hijacking the OP post. I just wanted to say my point but again I am picked on.
 
@Tony Ramirez

It is the way you are interpreting people that is giving you the problem.

You say couples are the *wrong people*.
Guys are useless.
Girls who won't ask you for a date are a bother.

In fact, the only type person you appear to have any interest in
is single girls. You make that abundantly clear.
 
@Tony Ramirez

Of course you're not liking what people here are saying to you .
They don't have any magic answers for you.

You say you expect girls to approach you.
Why would they?
What about you is so appealing that a girl would say to herself
*Hey, that guy is probably a lot of fun to be with. I'll go talk to him.*?
Exactly. There are us, who were in that same hole, who learned to stop digging. It was not easy to learn to be social and kind despite the frustration. It isn't masking, but it was learning the basics of being human in the social sphere, and ditching any sense of entitlement.
 
@Tony Ramirez

You say couples are the *wrong people*.
Guys are useless.
Girls who won't ask you for a date are a bother.

In fact, the only type person you appear to have any interest in
is single girls. You make that abundantly clear.
Girls won't even talk to me nevermind asking me to date. That's the problem and of course it's all my fault.
 
In real life, NT women rarely approach male strangers. This might be considered unfair in a perfectly rational world, but we definitely don't live in such a world :)

There's a process of sorts of course, but it's context-dependent, inexact, and variable. Fortunately nobody has to be perfect at it. But everyone (including NTs) needs to work on their presentation, social, and communication skills in order to engage in social processes like this.
 
A very useful new concept for Tony would be to
drop the attitude of envy and resentment.

Imagining that people are *putting him down*
is ironic, since he is the one categorizing
others as useless, and like buzzing flies.

He expects other people to put forth the effort
but rejects those who behave in a friendly way toward him.
 
It's easy for you to say that your married and I bet other's who put me down are in relationships.
To be able to get where I am I had to be the one making the first move, and doing so without any gaurantee of a relationship, something not easy for me after years of feeling rejected. So, tell us, how are you practicing to be social, enjoying anybody's company, and approaching and engaging the interest of those who interest you? It is up to you to do that. There are no magical shortcuts and the sooner you recognize that the better. What are the interests that make you attractive? What activity groups do you participate in because you like the activity? Local colleges near me have cooking classes. Have you even tried something like that?

Perhaps you need counseling for social coaching. I could have benefitted from that instead of learning things through trial and error. Lots of errors. And I started out with great deficits, working in basic research, making less than a factory worker, no sense of style, socially inept, driving a beater.
 

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