The History Thread

[Owliet]

I dont think that this is not a surprise but I love history and @Stuttermabolur mentioned that it would be really nice to have a history discussion in which those who are interested in history can info dump and discuss Specific periods. I like several periods of history that range from the Prehistoric (dinosaurs Etc) to modern day (although I think it is mostly WW1 and WW2) but there are still periods of history that I don’t really know (such as most Asian History or rudimentary knowledge of Nordic history). I think we can all learn from each other and share our wider range of knowledge.

 

[Outdated]

I love what I call "the little histories", I don't really care about which country attacked which other country in the 1600s but I'm very interested in how people lived in those times. What they ate, what tools they used, what they thought and why they thought that. Anthropology I guess. And I was always fascinated by fossils.

There's also a lot of Australian history that is either misrepresented or swept under the carpet where they hope it will be forgotten. WW II for us was more about Japan than Germany, even though my grandfather fought in Egypt and Tunisia. There's also a lot of aboriginal history that is being systematically destroyed.

 

[Owliet]

I love what I call "the little histories", I don't really care about which country attacked which other country in the 1600s but I'm very interested in how people lived in those times. What they ate, what tools they used, what they thought and why they thought that. Anthropology I guess. And I was always fascinated by fossils.

There's also a lot of Australian history that is either misrepresented or swept under the carpet where they hope it will be forgotten. WW II for us was more about Japan than Germany, even though my grandfather fought in Egypt and Tunisia. There's also a lot of aboriginal history that is being systematically destroyed.

You can always join in with excavations and also in experiencing living archaeology to see how people from the past lived and how they made their homes etc.

The only thing I really know about in Australian history is the Emu War.=D. Although I can see why that would be needed to be forgotten about since the Emus won…

I know for WW II, the inclusion of Australia and New Zealand is why you celebrate ANZAC day. =)

 

[Outdated]

The Anzacs were actually WW I, Gallipoli. And still not forgotten. You're right about the Emu Wars though, not our military's proudest moment.

 

[Outdated]

An interesting note about our Retired Servicemen's League (RSL).

It was formed to support soldiers and their families, especially those who were wounded and the families of those who never returned. In the RSL gods and governments are not welcome, it's about people. Especially on Anzac day, even symbolism such as crossing your chest and mumbling "God Bless" can cause dire insult.

It is right that our current Prime Minister be seen laying a wreath at the cenotaph, but they do not speak. It is not their place to do so.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

" . . . periods of history that range from the Prehistoric (dinosaurs Etc) to modern day."

I enjoy rummaging through deep time. For life on earth, the only constant is change, and it has either been an arms race against predators and parasites/diseases, or change just to keep up with competing species. Of course there was the time algae pumped a toxin into the atmosphere, oxygen, and killed off most of the other life on earth, and ushered in massive global cooling and a snowball earth.

One learns that flood basalts means extinction events. I have seen a part of the Central Atlantic Magmatic province near Marrakech. Triassic flood basalts that unbalanced the earth to allow dinosaurs to be dominant. Plus, at the end Cretaceous, the Deccan Traps erupted which was threatening dinosaur survival without having to invoke a meteor strike to kill them off.

 

[Sherlock77]

I know lots of useless facts about post WW2 European cars, I could identify some of them that I've never seen in person... I could talk for hours on that subject but no one cares

 

[Forest Cat]

A small piece of Swedish history: A few hundred years ago Sweden came to a point where they actually ran out of kings. That's very unfortunate for a Kingdom, it's embarrassing. So they started to look around for someone who could be the new king of Sweden. And they ended up picking a french guy named Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte. He was one of Napoleon's officers, a commander during the Napoleonic Wars. His name was changed to Karl XIV Johan and he ruled as king of Sweden and Norway from 1818 to his death in 1844.

Because of this, the Swedish royal family is still called “the Bernadottes“.

 

[VictorR]

I love what I call "the little histories", I don't really care about which country attacked which other country in the 1600s but I'm very interested in how people lived in those times. What they ate, what tools they used, what they thought and why they thought that. Anthropology I guess. And I was always fascinated by fossils.

That would be social history - looking at how society operated at a given time and place. It's also my favourite type of history. My first job was as a third-person costumed historical interpreter at a historic site and I absolutely loved it. Getting paid to infodump? Sign me up!

Third person historical interpreting is when you are yourself but explain how things were.
e.g. "Welcome to Fort X. This was not a military base, but rather, a trading post of the Hudson's Bay Company. Back in the day, you could get supplies here. If you've played Oregon Trail game, we're like one of those forts. You're standing in the cooperage. That's the barrel-making place. You can see all of our tools here, and as you can see, they're all cordless! The men would gather lumber from around (place) and bring them here where they'd be fashioned into barrels, with the hoops being made by the blacksmith, whose shop is in the next building... now let's do a demonstration... does anyone have any questions?"

First person historical interpreting is where you are playing a character and need to stay in character.
e.g.
(you are in character is a Roman centurion).
You: "Greetings. Where are you from?"
Visitor: "America"
You: "What? Never heard of such a place."
Visitor: "You know, the United States"
You: "Sorry"
Visitor (clues in): "It's on the other side of the ocean, to the west of Britannia and Hispania"
You: "I see. Don't you worry, it's only a matter of time before we arrive, conquer your country and bring civilization to you"

 

[VictorR]

One of my favourite museums is the Banff Park Museum.

It's a late 1800s - early 1900s natural history museum that has basically been preserved as-is with many original exhibits and as such is a museum of a museum.

Banff Park Museum | Banff, AB - Official Website

Built in 1903, the Banff Park Museum is the oldest park facility in the Canadian National Park system, and it is also the oldest natural history museum in western Canada.

banff.ca

Banff Park Museum National Historic Site

Step back in time and explore the oldest natural history museum in western Canada - A unique thing to do in downtown Banff!

parks.canada.ca

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

One of my favourite museums is the Banff Park Museum.

It's a late 1800s - early 1900s natural history museum that has basically been preserved as-is with many original exhibits and as such is a museum of a museum.

Banff Park Museum | Banff, AB - Official Website

Built in 1903, the Banff Park Museum is the oldest park facility in the Canadian National Park system, and it is also the oldest natural history museum in western Canada.

banff.ca

Banff Park Museum National Historic Site

Step back in time and explore the oldest natural history museum in western Canada - A unique thing to do in downtown Banff!

parks.canada.ca

Of course in your province there is the Royal Tyrrell Museum . . . fabulous. I have collected in the badlands and came across some fossilized charcoal from a forest fire in the Cretaceous.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I love the ins and outs of American history as the West was opening up and we were persecuting and killing the first nations. Everything from the history of the far West in Irving Stone's, Men to Match My Mountains, and Hampton Sides' Blood and Thunder, about Kit Carson. Then there is Stephen E. Ambrose's Nothing Like It in the World, about the building of the Transcontinental Railroad, or, the human and Geological history of America in John McPhee's; Basin and Range, In Suspect Terrain, and Rising From the Plains.

Reading the history of the Corps of Discovery (Lewis & Clark) I was amazed at the Hubris of traveling through a settled country and telling the inhabitants that it was no longer theirs.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

I love the ins and outs of American history as the West was opening up and we were persecuting and killing the first nations. Everything from the history of the far West in Irving Stone's, Men to Match My Mountains, and Hampton Sides' Blood and Thunder, about Kit Carson. Then there is Stephen E. Ambrose's Nothing Like It in the World, about the building of the Transcontinental Railroad, or, the human and Geological history of America in John McPhee's; Basin and Range, In Suspect Terrain, and Rising From the Plains.

Reading the history of the Corps of Discovery (Lewis & Clark) I was amazed at the Hubris of traveling through a settled country and telling the inhabitants that it was no longer theirs.

I read "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee" when I was 15, and it had a profound effect on my view of civilization and human barbarity. It is a beautifully written historiography about the USAian settler wars against aboriginals in the 18th and 19th centuries. The depth of depravity was such that I found it genuinely hard to read on at points.

Right now I'm reading a book I received on Christmas about how Celtic culture influenced Iceland. Based on genetic analysis, it seems like most of our male forefathers were Nordic (as is taught in history books) while most of the females were Irish "ambáttir" or slaves/thralls. A lot of our words and place names apparently have their roots in Celtic languages and we have both written and archeological evidence of Irish monks arriving here before Viking settlers in the 9th century.

One of my recent fascinations has been with Chinese imperial history. I am particularly interested in the "Spring and Autumn" and "Warring states" periods from about the 7th-2nd century BC. This was a period in which there were a bunch of warring families with none of them gaining the upper hand which allowed philosophical thought to blossom. I would compare it to Athens at the time of democracy as you would have all these scholars wandering between the states and offering their wisdom. That's when the three main schools of thought which have shaped Chinese society first formed (Confucianism, Taoism and Legalism) as well as dozens of other movements, many of which have likely been completely lost to time, but some of which still have some surviving text (or at least references to it).

Mohism was one of the most interesting one and it was quite widespread before being completely stamped out over the first decades of imperial rule (the Qin dynasty 221-206 B.C. which favoured legalism followed by the Han dynasty which favoured Confucianism). It's figurehead Mo-tse is said to be for defensive warfare what Sun Tzu is for offensive warfare. He was a pacifist who decried wars and who's followers would travel to city states to help build walls and defenses to deter potential attacks. They were said to be brilliant scientists and mathematicians who were avid inventors. Contrary to Confuscianism, it stressed the importance of everyone having a shared bond, and that you shouldn't focus more on your family than complete strangers as a form of early humanism.

This is only one example of Chinese philosophies which died out. There were also Logicians (the School of names), or atheists who focused on cause and effect/logical or "Aristotelian" philosophy in contrast to the contradictory philosophy of Taoism, Agriculturalists who wanted a proto-communist society where everyone worked in tilling the land and there would be no classes and Syncretism which sought to blend together the various thoughts to see what would work best. The period till the first true imperial dynasty is also called "the hundred schools of thought" because of the wellspring of ideas and theories spreading between the warring states.

As someone with a big interest in politics, I am very curious about the power struggles and "larger" stories happening throughout history (which is a part of the reason I like learning about the dynasties), but I also really like smaller stories from regular people. However, as first person commoner accounts of ancient or even recent history are quite rare, I mostly focus on modern stories of people we can see all around us, and consume several series where "normal" people are interviewed. To me, the greatest tragedy about dying one day is all the billions of stories I won't have the opportunity to hear or learn about. They are all around us if we are perceptive and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Thank you for creating this thread @Owliet!

 

[Outdated]

When I first moved up to Darwin in 92 there were still quite a few people around that had lived through WW II, and the stories they told me had the evidence to back those stories all around the place everywhere.

Their stories truly shocked me, it was not what I got taught in school. I was taught that Darwin got bombed once, on 19th of February, 1942. The people that ran the post office died. That was it, that’s what we were taught.

19th of February 1942 was the beginning of a hard fought campaign that lasted 18 months. More than 500 people died on that first day alone, 200 of them US merchant sailors from the USS Cleary, lost with all hands in Darwin Harbour.

So why the obfuscation? Why the lies? Because of our government’s actions at that time. Our then Prime Minister, Robert Menzies, knew that the attack was imminent and didn’t tell anyone. His plan was to allow Japan to have everything above the Tropic of Capricorn uncontested.

He was quite content to let all the Aussies that lived there die without warning. He made several public statements that stories of war in the north were nothing more than malicious rumours designed to weaken morale and weaken our war efforts in Europe. He was a wanna-be Pom, if given the opportunity he would have happily started dry humping King George’s leg. He hated Australia.

That started in February, the Yanks didn’t get here until October. So how did we survive in the meantime? It was the Dutch that saved our sorry arses. They get no mention in the written histories, but the Adelaide River War Cemetery has an entire section devoted to the Dutch that died in Australia.

So where did all those Dutch come from? Holland stayed neutral in the European war but didn’t want their troops being sequestered by the Germans, so nearly all of the Dutch military were posted in Asia, mostly in Indonesia, remnants of the old East India Tea Company.

And why did the Dutch bother to defend Australia? Because they had many major investments in the north of Australia, including the Argyle Diamond Mine, another remnant of the East India Tea Company. There’s an old saying in Australia – “Never shake hands with a Dutchman.”. That is also a legacy of the East India Tea Company.

Australians down south then found out that the war was real. Menzies was quickly ousted and John Curtin took the reigns. Curtin recalled all our troops from Europe. They didn’t get here until the Japs had been pushed back to New Ginnea but they were still very much needed. By the end of 1943 there were more than 500,000 troops staging in and around Darwin. Australian, Dutch and American.

But never underestimate the power of corrupt media or the gullibility of the general public, in 1946 Menzies was voted back in as Prime Minister and received a knighthood for his unwavering support of England.

 

[Wolfnox]

Anyone else read up on French and Indian war? Got a pretty detailed and interesting book about it. Just to say it doesn't favor sides. Just tells facts. Really complicated period of history for all involved.

 

[Sherlock77]

Other than oddball facts about arcane cars that hardly anyone has ever heard about (Europe has lots of that in particular)

I do enjoy reading up on any history of western Canada, the region where I grew up and call home, for me it helps to understand how past events have shaped the present... Why I don't understand people who so easily bypass that... I was in one small town where as a visitor I knew more history of the town than a young lady (who grew up there), but then I do understand we all have different interests...

 

[Tom]

Been interested in military history since childhood. That and love of toy soldiers are my longest running special interests.

I tend to favor certain periods, locations or even specific battles/campaigns as well. For instance, I have studied the battle of Waterloo on and off since about age 20. In recent years I read a little of the original sources most days. It may sound odd, may be odd, but I can read the same book (if it is eyewitnesses) 10, 15 or even 20 times or more and still get new info/insight or theory out of it. It is so difficult to make sense of all the conflicting or confusing accounts. I might read something dozens of times and not get it, but then finally it comes to me what the person means. A lot of it is putting together pieces that do not really fit together as is. You have to go over as much evidence as possible and keep searching for the one bit that is the key for things to fall into place.

 

[OddlyGodly]

One of my special interests has always been infectious diseases so I love to read about them and the effects they've had on history as a whole.

I love books like The Great Influenza by John M. Barry where it not only talks about the spread of the virus, the response to it, and it's effect on WWI and its relationship to it.

It's fascinating how much historians focus on military strategy or cultural revolution but it's often those tiny invisible pieces of RNA that win wars or decimate civilizations. The one enemy we will likely never defeat

I could go on for hours about it.

 

[Owliet]

" . . . periods of history that range from the Prehistoric (dinosaurs Etc) to modern day."

I enjoy rummaging through deep time. For life on earth, the only constant is change, and it has either been an arms race against predators and parasites/diseases, or change just to keep up with competing species. Of course there was the time algae pumped a toxin into the atmosphere, oxygen, and killed off most of the other life on earth, and ushered in massive global cooling and a snowball earth.

One learns that flood basalts means extinction events. I have seen a part of the Central Atlantic Magmatic province near Marrakech. Triassic flood basalts that unbalanced the earth to allow dinosaurs to be dominant. Plus, at the end Cretaceous, the Deccan Traps erupted which was threatening dinosaur survival without having to invoke a meteor strike to kill them off.

I always enjoy reading about your experiences and your knowledge Gerald about this interesting period! I only know enough about different types of dinosaurs and Paleolithic onwards. it’s interesting that the Deccan Traps were enough to threaten the dinosaur survival without the meteor strike. I’ve read a lot of theories about how the meteor strike may not have immediately killed off the dinosaurs and other issues were triggered by it, such as the rise of disease, end of foliage, rise of mammals. I currently am reading a book about the rise and fall of the dinosaurs (admittedly I have not gotten far) but it is quite interesting. Near where I live, Aathal has a huge dinosaur museum that has the excavation team who helped uncover the Big Al 1 and also Big Al 2. They only have replica fossils but it is very cool — and allosaurus are my favorite dinosaurs so I may be biased.

Home :: Sauriermuseum

I know lots of useless facts about post WW2 European cars, I could identify some of them that I've never seen in person... I could talk for hours on that subject but no one cares

If you want to mention them, you may feel free to do so in this thread. History isn’t just about facts or dates, it is objects from any past perioD — otherwise pottery would be obsolete.=D

A small piece of Swedish history: A few hundred years ago Sweden came to a point where they actually ran out of kings. That's very unfortunate for a Kingdom, it's embarrassing. So they started to look around for someone who could be the new king of Sweden. And they ended up picking a french guy named Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte. He was one of Napoleon's officers, a commander during the Napoleonic Wars. His name was changed to Karl XIV Johan and he ruled as king of Sweden and Norway from 1818 to his death in 1844.

Because of this, the Swedish royal family is still called “the Bernadottes“.

View attachment 93173

That’s really interesting. I did not realize that the monarchy in Sweden was broken to need to have some other line to continue it. Why did the line end?

You: "I see. Don't you worry, it's only a matter of time before we arrive, conquer your country and bring civilization to you"

Did you include calling them barbarians? Since the Romans viewed everyone who wasn’t from Rome as barbarians who needed to have civilization brought to them. I remember when I went to Rome, and the guy doing the tour (I guess he was good at his job but I knew all what he was saying) and he pulled out the gladius with “and this is the gladius”….I felt that was the only form of character he was in. Also saw Caesar smoke a cigarette.=D.

Speaking about the Romans, because I am very obsessed with this time period….i really like going to here:

Website der Römerstadt Augusta Raurica in Augst (Schweiz)

Willkommen in der Römerstadt Augusta Raurica in Augst (Schweiz)

www.augustaraurica.ch

They used to have a festival in August that they’d put on performances, you can also be a Roman for the day. It was lots of fun.

Right now I'm reading a book I received on Christmas about how Celtic culture influenced Iceland. Based on genetic analysis, it seems like most of our male forefathers were Nordic (as is taught in history books) while most of the females were Irish "ambáttir" or slaves/thralls. A lot of our words and place names apparently have their roots in Celtic languages and we have both written and archeological evidence of Irish monks arriving here before Viking settlers in the 9th century.

That’s really interesting — I always thought Iceland was just made up with Nordic ancestry but having irish slaves brought over is quite interesting — where they only slaves still or did they get granted freedom once in Iceland?

I always liked reading about the Orkney Islands that had a mix of nordic and Briton settlers.=D


Always find genetic mixes to be really interesting.

And why did the Dutch bother to defend Australia? Because they had many major investments in the north of Australia, including the Argyle Diamond Mine, another remnant of the East India Tea Company. There’s an old saying in Australia – “Never shake hands with a Dutchman.”. That is also a legacy of the East India Tea Company.

Colonialism is one of those really gray areas isn’t it? Although I did not know that the Dutch defended Australia!=D

I was reading about returning of aboriginal art to Australia — do you have an opinion about returning objects back to their native environment?

Anyone else read up on French and Indian war?

Only a little bit — feel free to discuss it here however.=D

any history of western Canada,

I really dont know much about the history of Canada — if you’d like to share, I’d love to learn.=D

It may sound odd, may be odd, but I can read the same book (if it is eyewitnesses) 10, 15 or even 20 times or more and still get new info/insight or theory out of it. It is so difficult to make sense of all the conflicting or confusing accounts. I might read something dozens of times and not get it, but then finally it comes to me what the person means. A lot of it is putting together pieces that do not really fit together as is. You have to go over as much evidence as possible and keep searching for the one bit that is the key for things to fall into place.

I think that’s the whole point with source analysis — or at least it is for me — that no matter how familiar you are with the material, you can always pick up new things.=)

One of my special interests has always been infectious diseases so I love to read about them and the effects they've had on history as a whole.

I love the Black Death period. Did you know that the Mongols used the plague as a tactic of infectious war fare?=D

 

[Forest Cat]

That’s really interesting. I did not realize that the monarchy in Sweden was broken to need to have some other line to continue it. Why did the line end?

King Karl II and the Queen didn't have kids. So they adopted a German prince, Christian August of Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg. But when he died King Karl needed someone else to take over, he was in bad health because of a stroke. So that's how they ended up with the french guy.