Eric B
Well-Known Member
Hi all, again!
Was posting here years ago, but my attention shifted, and I fell away for a time.
But recently, I've been thinking about the topic of "self-absorption". A term leveled at me by my wife and others over the years, and also typically tagged on Aspies (or HFA's, as we're going by now), but, I now believe, largely unfairly.
All of man is naturally self-involved. It's the natural survival instinct. Autistics aren't “more” self-absorbed than neurotypicals. They just manifest their self-involvement in different ways than neurotypicals, so it stands out (and neurotypicals then see their own “shadow” [i.e. unconscious evil, in Jungian terminology] in them, which they don't recognize in their own selves. Hence, attribution-shifting; i.e. when we do it, it's different; we have a legitimate reason; if nothing else, it being 'normal'; think “everybody's doing it”). So neurotypicals have the same self-absorption, only collectivized. (This parallels the generational criticism, where older people call younger generations “me”-focused, where “back in their day“ it was more “we" focused. But that “we” still engaged in selfish, antisocial behavior to others, such as all the forms of discrimination, which are being challenged now. Each person in those older periods IDENTIFIED [there's “the big 'I'” of self-centeredness]), and usually stood to benefit from the social structures. So they were no less “me” centered, the “me” was only hidden among the “we”.
The background story of this realization:
The final straw with this "self-absorption" business was three years ago. Now, in my original intro Hi all! I mentioned a person online who I lost a friendship with. After that post, I did eventually manage to restore very limited contact months later, and the person was becoming less active online anyway. So forward four years ago, when I was having trouble on the job, in part due to diabetes, and she had studied to be a dietitian, so I figured that would be up her alley, being her field of interest for a change (instead of mine, as she occasionally complained). So For a few months we exchange off and on. (Even managed to engage a few rounds of Words With Friends for a while). I think we're doing fine, and even ask if I'm doing OK in communicating, and she even says I'm doing fine, and mentions understanding AS (as we were still calling it; her also studying some psychology). But suddenly, she complains nothing she said was "registering", and then wouldn't answer further. So I give it three months, an write and e-mail (especially given the great news that I got my blood sugar down considerably), and she writes an angry response cutting me off again, and calling me "VERY self-absorbed". She goes on about all the men who've harassed her, and how it made her sorry to be online. She had mentioned this before (including the first time cutting me off), but said back then she knew I wasn't doing the same thing the other men did (she was very shapely when she was doing YouTube, and so had that problem with them), but all so typical of the utter hypocrisy of just about everyone who criticized me (or just the "world" in general) doing the very same things they criticize me for, I think it was rather "self-absorbed" to go on her gripe about men, for that made it "all about her", when she was dealing with me who wasnt doing the same thing as them, and she still hadn't even told me what I did to annoy her; she just expected me to "get it", and since I didn't, that's what made me just like the other men. (she likely has DD-NOs, and seemed to have been becoming a totally new person anyway, so that's what I think the issue is).
Then, my ASD specialist blames it on me, for "missing cues", and not sending messages other than when I wanted something (I certainly wanted to communicate more, but she was rather quiet and not always responsive in those days, and I often feared I would be "bothering" her). I had to practically twist the counselor's arm to acknowledge the person's wrong (and then all she said was "what she did 'sucked'", and quickly went back to the CBT formula on me).
So it was right back to all the "counsel" I had gotten my whole life from my family, and basically, therapy didn't last long after that. This is what prompted me to try antidepressants Experience with Antidepressants, so my mother gave me $1000 to see a psychiatrist who specialized in ASD, and he found me a pill that seemed to have the least danger of side effects, and I got a bottle, but then we feared the job still giving me problems, and all of us panicking, my wife and mother discouraged me from taking them. When I told the psych, the only thing he could give me instead was to suggest vitamin L-Theanine, and other than that, just "meditation, exercize and CBT".
So it was right back to square one (as always); right back to where I started with both the secular and religious "counsel". And that was it for therapy. (As for the person, I finally gave up, but felt better when I used to occasion of COVID to ask how she was doing, since she was almost totally inactive by that time. (And that was what I was supposedly doing so wrong; not asking how she was doing, etc.). So we closed on a more positive exchange, and I felt much better, allowing me to totally let go of her. But my wife still got annoyed that I contacted her then, after saying I was through when she cut me off the second time; and this just a few weeks ago now, when I first told her, TWO years after the fact!)
Was posting here years ago, but my attention shifted, and I fell away for a time.
But recently, I've been thinking about the topic of "self-absorption". A term leveled at me by my wife and others over the years, and also typically tagged on Aspies (or HFA's, as we're going by now), but, I now believe, largely unfairly.
All of man is naturally self-involved. It's the natural survival instinct. Autistics aren't “more” self-absorbed than neurotypicals. They just manifest their self-involvement in different ways than neurotypicals, so it stands out (and neurotypicals then see their own “shadow” [i.e. unconscious evil, in Jungian terminology] in them, which they don't recognize in their own selves. Hence, attribution-shifting; i.e. when we do it, it's different; we have a legitimate reason; if nothing else, it being 'normal'; think “everybody's doing it”). So neurotypicals have the same self-absorption, only collectivized. (This parallels the generational criticism, where older people call younger generations “me”-focused, where “back in their day“ it was more “we" focused. But that “we” still engaged in selfish, antisocial behavior to others, such as all the forms of discrimination, which are being challenged now. Each person in those older periods IDENTIFIED [there's “the big 'I'” of self-centeredness]), and usually stood to benefit from the social structures. So they were no less “me” centered, the “me” was only hidden among the “we”.
The background story of this realization:
The final straw with this "self-absorption" business was three years ago. Now, in my original intro Hi all! I mentioned a person online who I lost a friendship with. After that post, I did eventually manage to restore very limited contact months later, and the person was becoming less active online anyway. So forward four years ago, when I was having trouble on the job, in part due to diabetes, and she had studied to be a dietitian, so I figured that would be up her alley, being her field of interest for a change (instead of mine, as she occasionally complained). So For a few months we exchange off and on. (Even managed to engage a few rounds of Words With Friends for a while). I think we're doing fine, and even ask if I'm doing OK in communicating, and she even says I'm doing fine, and mentions understanding AS (as we were still calling it; her also studying some psychology). But suddenly, she complains nothing she said was "registering", and then wouldn't answer further. So I give it three months, an write and e-mail (especially given the great news that I got my blood sugar down considerably), and she writes an angry response cutting me off again, and calling me "VERY self-absorbed". She goes on about all the men who've harassed her, and how it made her sorry to be online. She had mentioned this before (including the first time cutting me off), but said back then she knew I wasn't doing the same thing the other men did (she was very shapely when she was doing YouTube, and so had that problem with them), but all so typical of the utter hypocrisy of just about everyone who criticized me (or just the "world" in general) doing the very same things they criticize me for, I think it was rather "self-absorbed" to go on her gripe about men, for that made it "all about her", when she was dealing with me who wasnt doing the same thing as them, and she still hadn't even told me what I did to annoy her; she just expected me to "get it", and since I didn't, that's what made me just like the other men. (she likely has DD-NOs, and seemed to have been becoming a totally new person anyway, so that's what I think the issue is).
Then, my ASD specialist blames it on me, for "missing cues", and not sending messages other than when I wanted something (I certainly wanted to communicate more, but she was rather quiet and not always responsive in those days, and I often feared I would be "bothering" her). I had to practically twist the counselor's arm to acknowledge the person's wrong (and then all she said was "what she did 'sucked'", and quickly went back to the CBT formula on me).
So it was right back to all the "counsel" I had gotten my whole life from my family, and basically, therapy didn't last long after that. This is what prompted me to try antidepressants Experience with Antidepressants, so my mother gave me $1000 to see a psychiatrist who specialized in ASD, and he found me a pill that seemed to have the least danger of side effects, and I got a bottle, but then we feared the job still giving me problems, and all of us panicking, my wife and mother discouraged me from taking them. When I told the psych, the only thing he could give me instead was to suggest vitamin L-Theanine, and other than that, just "meditation, exercize and CBT".
So it was right back to square one (as always); right back to where I started with both the secular and religious "counsel". And that was it for therapy. (As for the person, I finally gave up, but felt better when I used to occasion of COVID to ask how she was doing, since she was almost totally inactive by that time. (And that was what I was supposedly doing so wrong; not asking how she was doing, etc.). So we closed on a more positive exchange, and I felt much better, allowing me to totally let go of her. But my wife still got annoyed that I contacted her then, after saying I was through when she cut me off the second time; and this just a few weeks ago now, when I first told her, TWO years after the fact!)