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Something Truly Disturbing

Bellatrix

Space Left Deliberately Blank
Has anyone else seen this? It's from about a month ago, I just found it now.

Human Tracking Bill Passes House

<blockquote>The programs mission would to find “individuals with forms of dementia, such as Alzheimer’s Disease, or children with developmental disabilities, such as autism, who have wandered from safe environments.”</blockquote>

I guess it's one more good reason to <i>not</i> get an official diagnosis, because you will probably then find yourself on a government list of people who "need to be watched". After all, according to the mainstream media, we're the type of people who commit mass shootings.
 
"It directs the Department of Justice's (DOJ's) Bureau of Justice Assistance to award grants to state and local law enforcement or public safety agencies and nonprofit organizations to prevent wandering and locate missing individuals with dementia or developmental disabilities.

DOJ must establish and certain grant recipients must comply with standards and best practices related to the use of tracking technology to locate missing individuals with dementia or developmental disabilities.

The bill amends the Missing Children's Assistance Act to specify that, with respect to training and technical assistance provided by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, cases involving missing and exploited children include cases involving children with developmental disabilities such as autism."


This doesn't smack of "big brother" to me. Just our federal government awarding grant money to state/local law enforcement and public safety agencies pertaining to minors and adults who cannot necessarily help themselves. I see nothing here to indicate the scope of people concerned would be any broader than it appears, not pertaining to national security or crime considerations which state and local government budgets in most cases cannot likely afford anyways.

Frankly I'd rather see local law enforcement formally aware of such people rather than seeing them shoot first and ask questions later because they didn't know their "suspect" might be on the spectrum of autism.

This remains a real problem in our country. Such people who escape the care of others are often erroneously treated as suspects acting erratically or drug abusers with potentially lethal results when confronted by police. That's disturbing, IMO.

H.R.4919 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Kevin and Avonte's Law of 2016
 
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Non profit agencies that work to combat human trafficking have a large influence in legislation like the one listed here. The wording of legislation is worked on by people who are directly involved with the issue. The intent of this bill is to provide protection for a vulnerable segment of the population. All too often those with the most need are overlooked because they cannot advocate for themselves. This is a step in the right direction.
 
I'm going to assume that you have never experienced the devastation of dementia nor any number of other challenges that this would be helpful with. I could only hope that when it is my turn to not have all of my faculties,someone will have the decency to put me on the list.
 
This could be incredibly useful to many people! My grandad had dementia for a few years before he died, and he often wandered off when left alone for more than a few minutes, even once he was moved into a secure care home he managed to escape one day and the police didn't find him until 38 hours later! And a few years back near me a severely autistic child managed to get away from their parents and the entire village was mobilised to find them. As Nitro said, I hope that if I am ever in a similar state one day I will be put on the list.
 
My mother also suffered from dementia. A major reason why being her caregiver became a full-time job.

I would have cringed at the prospect of her being confronted by a police officer who hasn't clue of her condition.
 
Has anyone else seen this? It's from about a month ago, I just found it now.

Human Tracking Bill Passes House

<blockquote>The programs mission would to find “individuals with forms of dementia, such as Alzheimer’s Disease, or children with developmental disabilities, such as autism, who have wandered from safe environments.”</blockquote>

I guess it's one more good reason to <i>not</i> get an official diagnosis, because you will probably then find yourself on a government list of people who "need to be watched". After all, according to the mainstream media, we're the type of people who commit mass shootings.
I'm from the UK and I wonder how this will be in the Bible it speaks of the last days of everybody will be marked and that's your civil liberties eroded trucking has not worked in the UK people managed to avoid it implemented
 
I'm from the UK and I wonder how this will be implemented ,in the Bible it speaks of the last days everybody will be marked and that's your civil liberties eroded tracking has not worked in the UK people managed to avoid it implemented
Hello it's me again my damn phone is on the Fritz replace the word trucking with tracking the word avoid with evade law enforcement in the US does not have a good reputation .I don't particularly trust UK law enforcement either
 
sounds like a dangerous can of worms to me. Such a law is bound to be abused and misinterpreted.

Exactly! How can something like this NOT be abused, eventually? That is my secondary concern, my primary one being the manner in which it specifically singles out certain groups of people (like autistics) because, apparently, they are all the same and need to have decisions made for them. Then of course there is the further erosion of privacy and personal space...

This is a very BAD idea!
 
DOJ must establish and certain grant recipients must comply with standards and best practices related to the use of tracking technology to locate missing individuals with dementia or developmental disabilities.

The bill amends the Missing Children's Assistance Act to specify that, with respect to training and technical assistance provided by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, cases involving missing and exploited children include cases involving children with developmental disabilities such as autism."

This doesn't smack of "big brother" to me. Just our federal government awarding grant money to state/local law enforcement and public safety agencies pertaining to minors and adults who cannot necessarily help themselves. I see nothing here to indicate the scope of people concerned would be any broader than it appears, not pertaining to national security or crime considerations which state and local government budgets in most cases cannot likely afford anyways.

So you basically trust your government to do the right thing. Well, call me cynical, but I don't.

"H.R. 4919, which passed 346 to 66 in the lower chamber, also known as Kevin and Avonte’s Law, mandates the U.S. attorney general award grants to law enforcement officials so that those agencies can create, establish and operate “locative tracking technology programs.”"

Create, establish and operate tracking technology programmes, so your claim that it merely extends what is already in place, is false.
 
Such "locative tracking technology programs" already exist. They work by following things like smartphones, which constantly emit signals. Big Brother had no trouble at all marketing himself to technology crazed people worldwide. Plan on 'personal communication devices' becoming defacto compulsory in the near future. Cars are becoming the same way. Plan on future "smart cars" automatically setting speeding limits based on the roads you travel on. Our cars will likely be driving us soon.
 
So you basically trust your government to do the right thing. Well, call me cynical, but I don't.

"H.R. 4919, which passed 346 to 66 in the lower chamber, also known as Kevin and Avonte’s Law, mandates the U.S. attorney general award grants to law enforcement officials so that those agencies can create, establish and operate “locative tracking technology programs.”"

Create, establish and operate tracking technology programmes, so your claim that it merely extends what is already in place, is false.

I've not made that claim. Apparently you've chosen to interpret it as such.

What I am saying is that the development and application of such technology at the local level is neither implied or intended to be used at the level the federal government uses in applications related to Homeland Security. You're just projecting fears based on the use of technology far beyond the scope and intent of the legislation.

It isn't a matter of "trusting" government to do the right thing. Quite the opposite. It's knowing there are simply too many inherent and complex legal, fiscal and political limitations of state and local governments to take such grants that far beyond the monitoring of developmentally disabled citizens.

Quite to the contrary, in a nutshell state and local governments cannot parse and manuscript federal legislation to their liking. They must follow it to the letter of the law, or risk anything from losing grant access to being prosecuted in a federal court, depending on how they deviate from said legislation. And then there's the predictable sh*tstorm that would ensue courtesy of civilian media and civil rights advocates in the event such grants were being misused.

But most of all, good luck with any state or local government law enforcement agency having the local political authorization and ability to hide implementing such a thing so far outside of both the specific intent of a federal grant, and the sums required to pay for a sophisticated government security apparatus as opposed to simply monitoring developmentally disabled citizens.

Too many routine checks, balances and political opposition and tight budgeting scrutinizing such things in a longstanding shaky economy. Where the lower government authority goes, the more transparent it becomes. Not to mention an extraordinarily heavy-handed federal government who more or less frowns on the very notion of state and local governments attempting to establish their own national security apparatus.

What you suggest is simply not possible at lower levels of government, giving them far too much credit, power and monetary resources they don't have. It's always a mistake to assume that American state and local political, economic and legal infrastructure operates at the same level as does our federal government. Rest assured, it doesn't.

When it comes to anyone looking after the welfare of the developmentally disabled, I'd much rather see that responsibility fall upon local government and those who may know such people on a more personal level. Certainly more than our federal government, which can be indifferent and impersonal more often than not.

Though the remaining question is quite controversial. Whether or not it's a realistic expectation to see law enforcement and public safety officials take on a greater role of social and mental health work. Personally I like the idea, given it may come down to a case of life as opposed to death for someone having a meltdown in public that is properly dealt with rather than completely misunderstood.

However even at the state or local level there's no guarantee that law enforcement could legally be allowed to implement this beyond the threshold of research and development paid for by a limited federal grant subject to federal oversight. It would still be at the discretion of state and potentially federal court scrutiny and adjudication if constitutionally challenged. Just because the federal government legislates grants to encourage research and development doesn't make the possibility of an end product being inherently constitutional. And if local legislators object to the added fiscal impact, the whole thing is dead in the water. So there are a lot of "ifs" even if the research created a viable system within the parameters of the federal grant.

As for anyone who meets the level of being "a person of interest" to federal law enforcement, intelligence or national security, they don't likely care whether you are neurodiverse or not. Subject to different but legal degrees of transparency and secrecy. And then there's the private sector, which has surreptitiously monitored our purchases, mobility and web surfing for decades. All which continues to disturb a lot of people for good reason.
 
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Exactly! How can something like this NOT be abused, eventually? That is my secondary concern, my primary one being the manner in which it specifically singles out certain groups of people (like autistics) because, apparently, they are all the same and need to have decisions made for them. Then of course there is the further erosion of privacy and personal space...

This is a very BAD idea!
Sounds like a sort of digital eugenics. Will we never learn?
 
I'm from the UK and I wonder how this will be in the Bible it speaks of the last days of everybody will be marked and that's your civil liberties eroded trucking has not worked in the UK people managed to avoid it implemented
it wont get put in the UK as a overall rule but it does get used individually,to get recommended a tracker you need to be placed under a DOLs [depravation of liberty,which social services do not like doing unless its an incredibly acute case] and classed as having limited mental capacity.

i know because i have been referred for a tracker to social services before but they said because i have mental capacity,the company who support me arent allowed to track and follow me,and instead its left up to police intervention,how mad is that? i am classed as an extremely vulnerable adult but they think i dont need immediate following they just phone the police and put a vulnerable adult alert in.
i actually agreed to have a tracker because i do run off and when i do;i do not have mental capacity at that time,but that concept did not do well with the SS.

i think its a good idea,but they should make sure they make the person aware as possible about having a tracker on them as it needs to be their decision.
with dementia,i think they should ask people with mild dementia what they would like if they were more severely affected,i dont think its up to us to say it should be done.
id respect it all the same if a person with dementia said they didnt want a tracker,its their body afterall.
 
i actually agreed to have a tracker because i do run off and when i do;i do not have mental capacity at that time,but that concept did not do well with the SS.

i think its a good idea,but they should make sure they make the person aware as possible about having a tracker on them as it needs to be their decision.

This is essentially the concern of such a proposal. Not to track anyone and everyone, or deliberately (and unconstitutionally) discriminate against those on the spectrum. Rather to focus only on those in dire need of having local police or public safety personnel have a clear understanding of your medical issues before they arrive on the scene to investigate your status.

So you are treated more as a sensitive medical case rather than a criminal suspect to be shot first and ask questions later. After all, they can kill you if your demeanor is overly physical or belligerent during questioning, which may be perceived as an immediate threat to them.

In such a tragedy your survivors can sue them, but if you're dead such concerns won't be your own. And of course, given our tort system being out of control, municipal governments are keen to control the liability of their police force the best they can, to avoid needless and inadvertent homicides of innocent citizens who may not be up to properly communicating to police on the scene.
 
A relative with dementia has a tracking device that looks like a watch, the care home that she resides in placed it on her wrist the first day she was there. Have to say that it shocked me initially, as they hadn't asked the families permission to do so, nor hers.

In my opinion, it removes your freedom and humanity and makes you little more than an object that is monitored. She would not have agreed to such a thing if she had been lucid. Understand that if she does wander, it's a valuable device to use, but it lacks the human contact that would have been more kindly.
 
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She would not have agreed to such a thing if she had been lucid. Understand that if she does wander, it's a valuable device to use, but it lacks the human contact that would have been more kindly.

My mother had dementia. As her caregiver it was always my responsibility not to allow her to leave home. I have to admit, there were times where she might have wandered off without me knowing. Thank goodness it never happened. Though I found out after her death that she had "burned quite a few bridges" with those people in her remaining orbit. All of which I was unaware of at the time. I never gave any thought to what trouble she had created on the phone.

While my mother was once a wonderful, generous soul, in her last years she could turn on you like night and day. Had she been in any confrontation with a policeman it could have been potentially catastrophic.

Hell, it pains me to admit that I once had an issue with a cop that might have gone terribly bad. In real time I was flustered over a question of a traffic issue. Luckily I was with a co-worker and friend who was able to convey my thought process which appeared suspicious to the cop at the time.

It wasn't until long afterwards that I began to understand the cop's thought process. Basically I made a legal u-turn in his presence that made me look suspicious. As if I was trying to suddenly evade him. No wants, no warrants. Lucky for me.
 
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Has anyone else seen this? It's from about a month ago, I just found it now.

Human Tracking Bill Passes House

<blockquote>The programs mission would to find “individuals with forms of dementia, such as Alzheimer’s Disease, or children with developmental disabilities, such as autism, who have wandered from safe environments.”</blockquote>

I guess it's one more good reason to <i>not</i> get an official diagnosis, because you will probably then find yourself on a government list of people who "need to be watched". After all, according to the mainstream media, we're the type of people who commit mass shootings.
yup this is the end of times lady's and gentleman
 

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