Social Over-Thinking: A Eureka Moment

[MrSpock]

I have been accused of over-thinking social situations several times and by several people, and always wondered what they meant. I believe I have finally figured it out, like many social puzzles I have been confronted with the answer is so very counter-intuitive to me, this is why social interaction is so difficult to learn about.

I say what I mean and mean what I say. And I actually mean that. I've met many people who say that, but don't mean it, not the way I do. Instead of taking me at my word they use something akin to artistic licence to interpret my words taking into account facial expression, body language, the weather and who knows what else? They expect me to treat their words with the same disrespect (remember this is all from my perspective) and consistently arrive at the intended message.

To me, everything past adding together the dictionary definitions of the words used is over-thinking. They seem to be somewhat on board with each other on this, such that if the intended amount of over-thinking is x, other NTs will over-think to a factor of between 0.8x and 1.2x. I don't know what the value of x is, I am not equipped with a need for any value of x. I must guess at x, and if I over-think something to a factor of <0.7x then "I cannot see the implications, it has gone over my head" (under-over-thinking), and if I over-think to a factor of >1.3x then I'm "over-thinking" (over-over-thinking).

Still a problem. I feel so blind in this area that this is significant progress for me (given that I'm right). I wonder if this will be helpful to others, as food for thought if not actually in practice. I would appreciate whatever thoughtful feedback anyone cares to give.

 

[Thinx]

I think I get what you mean, in terms of how you are having to factor in guesstimates based on experience of NTs not seeming to mean exactly what they say but something else a bit different and often with an emotional slant; you try to allow for this but can't always hit the mark? Is that it? Or am I under-thinking what you meant?

I recognise the process you mean, I think. I believe I mask my lack of understanding quite well as I rarely get comments, this may be partly due to gender conditioning it could be that you speak up more as a guy, and it's more clear to them you didn't guesstimate what they meant...

 

[Gracey]

You lost me with the formulae
But I’ll still have a go.


I’m sure I’ve reached a stage of something akin to multiple choice when trying to understand some people.

In real time conversations I generally say what I mean.
Nothing ‘between the lines’, no hidden agendas, no secret code just my observation at that time.

On hearing their reply on a subject,
if it wasn’t what I was expecting I might generate three or four possibilities of what they might mean and have a fraction of a second to guess correctly.
(Multiple choice)
I call it a guess, it would be my best guess given the information available, kind of like a process of elimination.

If I don’t ask further questions to be certain of what’s meant then the above is all I have to go on.

I see this as me ‘overthinking’
If I knew for certain what a person meant I wouldn’t need to guess.

I too can feel blind and somewhat frustrated feeling like the only one in a real time group who isn’t easily following the flow of what’s being said.

One single word used in a sentence may mean many things (to me) but only a single meaning for them.
The speed of a real time conversation doesn’t give me much time to double check I’ve understood.

I also think some people might not be used to hearing a simple, honest, succinct observation.
So used to reading between the lines, so when we say what we mean and there’s nothing to work out, throws them off kilter a little.
Weren’t expecting it?

 

[MrSpock]

In real time conversations I generally say what I mean.
Nothing ‘between the lines’, no hidden agendas, no secret code just my observation at that time.

On hearing their reply on a subject,
if it wasn’t what I was expecting I might generate three or four possibilities of what they might mean and have a fraction of a second to guess correctly.
(Multiple choice)

If they mean what they say, no over-thinking is the appropriate amount of over-thinking. It's still multiple-choice for me, as when talking with such a person (most people) each remark must be examined to determine how much interpretation is required.

If they don't mean what they say and only one other thing need be taken into account to interpret it correctly, then taking them at their word is under-over-thinking, taking one thing into account (still multiple choice, many possibilities of the one thing) is the correct amount of over-thinking, and taking more than one thing into account is over-over-thinking.

Often more than one thing needs to be taken into account, in complex social situations often several things need to be taken into account to interpret one thing correctly, and even more things must be examined and ruled out if they don't apply and you don't naturally know the difference. If four things need to be taken into account, three or fewer will result in them thinking that things go over your head easily, five or more will have them say that you're over-thinking (and I say that you're under-over-thinking and over-over-thinking, respectively).

Hope that makes it clearer. It is a confusing thing, that's why I'm pleased to have figured it out, finally. That, and the utility I hope it will have for me, and maybe others.

 

[SusanLR]

One single word used in a sentence may mean many things (to me) but only a single meaning for them.
The speed of a real time conversation doesn’t give me much time to double check I’ve understood

I feel this way so often.
Then they stare at you with a "do you understand what I mean?" type look.

My house share partner seems to always be saying something I have to analyze the meaning.
He says he can tell when I get that go blank look that I'm having to think about it.
But, then he gets enjoyment from saying something he knows I'll take literally when he doesn't mean
it. I may cringe thinking what he said sounds as if I've done something wrong.
But, he laughs and says he knew he got me going and that I should have seen the look on my face.
Not funny to me.
I always said I don't know why people can't mean what they say and say what they mean.

 

[Gracey]

If they mean what they say, no over-thinking is the appropriate amount of over-thinking. It's still multiple-choice for me, as when talking with such a person (most people) each remark must be examined to determine how much interpretation is required.

If they don't mean what they say and only one other thing need be taken into account to interpret it correctly, then taking them at their word is under-over-thinking, taking one thing into account (still multiple choice, many possibilities of the one thing) is the correct amount of over-thinking, and taking more than one thing into account is over-over-thinking.

Often more than one thing needs to be taken into account, in complex social situations often several things need to be taken into account to interpret one thing correctly, and even more things must be examined and ruled out if they don't apply and you don't naturally know the difference. If four things need to be taken into account, three or fewer will result in them thinking that things go over your head easily, five or more will have them say that you're over-thinking (and I say that you're under-over-thinking and over-over-thinking, respectively).

Hope that makes it clearer. It is a confusing thing, that's why I'm pleased to have figured it out, finally. That, and the utility I hope it will have for me, and maybe others.

Thank you

 

[Hadarian]

You lost me with the formulae

Me too

I say what I mean and mean what I say. And I actually mean that. I've met many people who say that, but don't mean it, not the way I do. Instead of taking me at my word they use something akin to artistic licence to interpret my words taking into account facial expression, body language, the weather and who knows what else? They expect me to treat their words with the same disrespect (remember this is all from my perspective) and consistently arrive at the intended message.

It's interesting to note that as soon as your post started to look like algebra to me, I had no idea what you were talking about, but that I've actually had similar experiences with people, but only in close kinds of relationships. I think I've mentioned that I don't really engage with people at all for social interaction, but mostly just to get errands done. So the contexts in which things like this have happened to me have been meaningful friendships (or potential ones), or love relationships (or potential ones), in which I would be left at the end wracking my brain to understand "Well why did he say this??" Because he deceived me. It was always inevitable that the individual would create expectations in me by saying words, totally unnecessary words, promises and I ended up deeply hurt, because... And I have come to think "Why are you even speaking??" Just shut up, actually, because your words have no meaning anymore ... now I've learned to disbelieve just about everything anyone ever says to me, especially if their words conflict with my intuition about them--until things get serious, and then I fall into the pit of falsity again. People speak to deceive and manipulate.

I've also had the experience where I will say something, and I do mean it, but the person I say it to takes it to have no meaning, as I suppose they expect me to take their words--in fact I think I once wrote a poem inspired by an incident just like this--yes, I found it

Melancholy Melodrama

It happened again, small wonder,
Since people seek out young hearts to plunder,
Seems mine never grows old,
With each new love, just as bold.

I don’t know why I am not like they,
Or why I believe them while they just play,
But God! How I wish I could protect my heart
And hide inside some acting part
Then play on stage and with them pretend
That my feigned affections troubled minds might mend,
All the while not believing
Those affections I’d be from them receiving.

But I cannot, and so I bare myself,
Display my soul upon a shelf,
And in the end, a lonely sigh,
Is all I have as I sit and cry.

Actually, as I was looking for this poem, it seems that most of my poems are about this sort of thing, but this one in particular is very specifically about it. This stuff really used to hurt me a lot. Now I just keep to myself and I have cultivated my own being and my own soul. I don't need to be close to anyone anymore.

I was told countless times that I think too much. I have spent hours upon hours day after day, often nights, trying to understand people's psychology, as well as my own. Psychoanalysis. "Why did he say that??" "Why did he do that??" I can feel people. That's what I do--I feel people. I can't do math or science. I don't have any great intellectual gift, like Aspergers have, but I feel people, and it has tortured me.

 

[tree]