So, looking for PC suggestions

[Misery]

Geez, I'm on a roll with making topics recently.

So, here's the situation. This PC of mine is on the brink of collapse. Actually had a moment earlier today where I thought it was about to completely go down, but it's still holding on.

I've spent like the last 5 nights arguing with it, doing whatever I could. Hours and hours of running tests, trying things, uninstalling every bloody thing I could think of, running more tests, performing scans of all sorts, watching the bloody resource monitor, wading through the services stuff, just everything. After all that, yeah, it's clear this machine's time is almost up.

Though I also realize, maybe it's time for an upgrade anyway. I'm starting to have things that require a bit more than this thing can handle (particularly raytracing, which would help my fractal renders *a lot*, would speed those up soooooooooo much). Also my VR stuff... the machine was built to handle the original Oculus when that was fairly new, and it was a bloody powerful PC at the time, but... yeah, it's been awhile.

So! Time to look for something new. But I'm not good with hardware!

For any of you tech-heads out there: where should I go to seek out something to get? I want to make sure I'm getting some top of the line stuff here, but without getting totally price gouged. The one major thing I'm aware of is that it does need an NVidia card specifically, that's non-negotiable. With raytracing support, preferrably. And this is a pure gaming PC (well, also used for my 3D art renders too). So sheer power is what I'm after. Also I need like 5 bazillion USB ports. I mean geez I've got so many gizmos here that get attached to it (not that any of them are attached NOW).

I'm not too picky otherwise. So yeah... any advice, any suggestions? I seriously have no idea where to even begin here.

 

[maycontainthunder]

If you need extra USB ports there are two expansion options. One is a PCI-E x1 card. Helpfully most manufacturers like hiding this with the graphics card so check the motherboard, some have one lower down. Option B I can only find in USB 2 spec. NZXT Internal USB 2.0 Expansion Hub (Gen 3) Interface: USB Header AC-IUSBH-M3 | eBay (sorry about the ebay link).

 

[Raggamuffin]

Budget?

I like pricing up PC stuff. You got any go to websites? You building it yourself or wanna get a pre-built?

E-ATX motherboards are large, high end one's which will have plenty of USB ports. Full size towers also come with lots of USB.

You can also just get slot one into a PCI lane for more slots:

Ed

 

[Misery]

Budget?

I like pricing up PC stuff. You got any go to websites? You building it yourself or wanna get a pre-built?

E-ATX motherboards are large, high end one's which will have plenty of USB ports. Full size towers also come with lots of USB.

You can also just get slot one into a PCI lane for more slots:



Ed

The budget is pretty much just "whatever", not much of a limit.

Definitely looking for pre-built or someone else doing it, however that goes. Me trying to build it would be a disaster.

 

[Raggamuffin]

Nov 16 is when next gen of Nvidia cards come out. Nvidia binned the 12GB version of the 4080, so the 16GB is the one to go for, but that's over $1500 just for the card. Or, you could go with the 30 series of cards after the 40 series comes out. By that time the price will come down. 3080TI is around $1100-1200 at the moment. So hopefully the prices might end up sub $1000 once the 40 series is out.

32 or 64GB of RAM, anything more is overkill for games at this point. DDR5 if you want future proof. One with a high Mhz speed.

Hard drive/SSD - go with one with 7000mb/s read speed. They're expensive, but would ensure the fastest load times possible.

Processor - Intel i7 or i9 from the new Raptor Lake series. i7-13700K or i9-13900K. Don't go for the KF variants. Get an all in one watercooler for the CPU. Most places do those as standard I guess for PC builds these days. 240mm or 360mm radiator. I use a 120mm which is fine for an older i7 Quad core from the 6th generation. But something beefier might be better for a higher end CPU.

Send us a few website links for places you'd buy from and I'll price up.

That's about it I guess.

Ed

 

[Raggamuffin]

Try and build from this site. Seems like it'd probably be a very decent system. This is for a full tower though, and they are frigging huge things. A mid tower would be just as fine:

https://www.originpc.com/configurator/genesis/

Here's a spec I made up but its like $5000.

You could go cheaper on the motherboard, and a cheaper Nvidia GPU. But play around with it, see what works well for you. If you wanted even more performance, go with an i9 processor and duplicate the SSD (2TB Samsung 980 PRO) and set it up in RAID. That makes for even faster loading/transfer speeds. Bear in mind this means you'd have 2TB overall space, not 4TB. Pros and cons of Raid 0 vs 1:

RAID 0 vs RAID 1 - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

What's the difference between RAID 0 and RAID 1? RAID (redundant array of independent disks) is a storage technology that combines multiple disk drive components into a single logical unit so it behaves as one drive when connected to any other hardware. RAID 1 offers redundancy through...

www.diffen.com

Titanium PSU (power supply unit) are the most efficient, but the wattage of the one on that website is overkill for most users. There's PSU calculator websites out there, and for this build. I just did one for this build, and I put on a bunch of things probably not needed (lots of fans, high end sound card, gaming kb and mouse, additional USB inputs etc) and it needed 950-1000W PSU:

Power Supply Calculator - PSU Calculator | OuterVision

Power Supply Calculator - Select computer parts and our online PSU calculator will calculate the required power supply wattage and amperage for your PC.

outervision.com

Additional high end sound card, network card optional of course. That case has 4 USB 3.0 and one USB-C ports as standard, but it's design would mean you'd need a USB external disk drive if you needed/wanted one.


Ed

 

[Aspychata]

I was looking at Newegg and on their menu, they have build your computer. I like this online company, however others may have different opinions.

 

[Outdated]

Hi @Misery , you mentioned earlier that you're not such a tech head when it comes to hardware, you're better off going to an actual shop that custom builds computers rather than buying stuff online and mucking around with it yourself. That way if something doesn't work you can take it straight back to them and it's their problem, not yours.

Search for online computer stores in your area, you'll find most of them have an actual shop front as well.

We're now up to 12th generation processors (intel)
If you're going to run Linux then 32 gig of ram is plenty
nVidia cards are dearer than Radeon at the moment, in Aust. at least.

 

[Judge]

To be looking for a prebuilt, powerful gaming PC will not be easy. Mostly because you may find that the most prominent names in prebuilt computers tend to fall on their faces when it comes to gaming systems. And for a basic reason you should not ignore- thermodynamics.

In essence well known names like Dell and HP tend to sell powerful, yet completely inadequately cooled computers that result in the CPU and GPU throttling back just when the gaming starts to get interesting. And too much prolonged heat can stress a number of critical components to the point of failure.

Look for the following:

1) A "mesh" front panel. Not a solid panel. You want plenty of air to be sucked in by multiple fans. Preferably two or three 120mm or 140mm fans. Air coming in through mere slots on both sides of the front is never enough. Yet companies continue to sell such cases that simply are inadequate to the task. And know that the added use of front panel air filters can keep out the dust, but they can also hinder airflow through those same mesh front panels.

2) Aircooled CPU: Find a PC with a substantial fan and enormous heatsink for the CPU.

Or

Liquid cooled CPU: with a built-in All-In-One (AIO) liquid cooler, with a a radiator no smaller than 240mm using at least two 120mm fans to cool it. A 280mm AIO with two 140mm fans is even better, whether mounted in the front of the case, or suspended from the top.

3) To have at least one exhaust fan at the back of the case, preferably 120mm to 140mm.

4) "Positive airflow" is desirable. That is, to have more intake air being sucked in from the front than exhaust air being sucked out the back.

These are all basic concerns that companies like Dell and HP continue to be oblivious to in how they build their systems. Powerful, but with disastrously inadequate cooling. Bad news for anyone buying them. Take a look at HP's 30L "Omen" PC. A classic example of what to avoid.

And if you are contemplating the use of many external components combined with a powerful GPU and CPU, know that you MUST have an adequately powerful powerful supply to handle it all.

Be very careful about Nvidia 30 series cards. You want one on the higher end rather than the lower end. The lower end ones amount to marketing gimmicks where you pay more but get performance comparable to 20 series cards.

To get a feel for all these concerns, go onto YouTube where you can find plenty of knowledgeable people who coach the public about them. They post a lot of presentations about which pre-built gaming systems and vendors to avoid.

 

[Outdated]

Just as a ball park idea of what you get and what it costs, here's the specs for my games computer I had built just 4 months ago.

Cost: AU$2500 - That's Australian dollars, probably about US$1700.

1 Intel 12th Gen Core i3-12100F LGA1700 Processor
2 ThermalTake Toughair 310 CPU Cooler
3 MSI PRO H610M-B DDR4 Intel LGA 1700 mATX Motherboard
4 G.Skill 32GB (2x16GB) F4-3200CL16D-32GVK Ripjaws V 3200MHz DDR4 RAM-Black
5 Samsung 970 Evo Plus M.2 500GB (2280) NVMe Solid State Drive
6 Western Digital Blue 2TB 3.5in HDD SATA 6GB/s 7200RPM 256MB Cache
7 MSI Radeon RX 6700 XT Mech 2x 12GB Video Card
8 Gigabyte Gc-WBAX200 WiFi 6 PCIe Adapter 2400Mbps 160MHz Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth 5 Mu-Mimo TX/Rx
9 ThermalTake V100 Mid Tower Case
10 ThermalTake Toughfan 14 PWM High Static Pressure (Up To 2000RPM) Radiator Fan-1-Pack
11 Thermaltake Smart BM2 Series 750W 80+ Bronze Semi-Modular Power Supply
12 24 Months Parts Warranty - System Build - Hardware Assembly + Operating System installation (Updates and Drivers)
+ SSD Profile Redirection To HDD If Required.
13 AOC G2790VX 27in 144Hz Full HD 1M Freesync VA Gaming Monitor
14 Logitech MK120 Keyboard and Mouse
15 Logitech Z200 Multimedia Speakers-MidNight Black

They install an operating system for you for the sake of testing before they deliver, including any flavour of Linux you please. I'm happy with the machine and happy with the service.

 

[Raggamuffin]

Went overboard with last one. This is more reasonable at $2813.

Tech ain't cheap though, and you get what you pay for. If you want to future proof for more demanding games, it'll cost you.

Ed

 

[Metalhead]

Win the Powerball and buy a top of the line AlienWare desktop. You need to win the Powerball jackpot to afford one of those bad boys.

 

[Misery]

Search for online computer stores in your area, you'll find most of them have an actual shop front as well.

Unfortunately, there arent any (already did that search).

I'm in the middle of nowhere, and close to that is other varieties of nowhere... doesnt matter what direction I go in, it's gonna be a loooooooooooong while before I get anywhere that has more than like, a couple of supermarkets. The closest thing to a computer-related store is Best Buy. And that store, well... yeah, that's not happening.

Previously THE place to go for eletronics and all things computers was the Fry's (and that's where I got this thing, as well as the PC before this one) but that shut down after the pandemic started. Now there's just... nothing.

Win the Powerball and buy a top of the line AlienWare desktop. You need to win the Powerball jackpot to afford one of those bad boys.

I dunno, the price on those doesnt look too bad. Though, I'm aware that my idea of "expensive" is very distorted. As a rule I dont really worry about money, I'll put it that way.

For reference, the machine I'm currently using cost about $4500. Wasnt a problem. And a darned good machine up until like this week. It's been a real trooper, this thing.

Of course, the real trick is making sure that the thing in question that I'm after at any given time is *actually* worth the cost. I'm the sort that wont buy a box of crackers because it's $2 more than I think it should be even though it makes no sense for me to care. But then, I have a decent idea of how much crackers should cost. I DONT have an idea of how much a PC should cost, so I'd always have others helping with that.

Previously the Fry's was great for that, was always very pleased with everything they did, but noooooooooo, the whole place shut down. I'm still salty about that.

To get a feel for all these concerns, go onto YouTube where you can find plenty of knowledgeable people who coach the public about them. They post a lot of presentations about which pre-built gaming systems and vendors to avoid.

Any suggestions for Youtube channels/videos to check out?

 

[Judge]

Any suggestions for Youtube channels/videos to check out?

Look for anything from:

* Gamers Nexus' Steve Burke (US)
* Jay from Jayztwocents (US)
* Chris Titus Tech (US)
* Christopher Flannigan (UK)
* Mick from Gearseekers (Aus)
* Tiny Tom Logan from OC3D TV (UK)
* Leo Warnock from KitGuruTech (UK)
* Linus Sebastian from Linus Tech Tips (US)

They've all demonstrated building various computers, usually geared for gaming. Steve Burke is probably the most vocal about criticizing various storebought PCs and online vendors to stay away from. He's also critical about Newegg.com as well. But they all know their stuff and are sometimes not afriad to cross the industry to tell gamers the truth about things.

 

[Raggamuffin]

Another thought - save some money, take the plunge and build your own. So long as you read the instruction manuals on the case and components - fitting it is a doddle and should only need a Philips head screwdriver. Plus, the diagrams to fit the components are usually short and sweet.

Motherboard screws into the case
All components screw to motherboard or case.
Most components then have a cable from the power supply plugged into them.
Boot up and install operating system from USB or disc.

Fin.



Ed

 

[Misery]

Another thought - save some money, take the plunge and build your own. So long as you read the instruction manuals on the case and components - fitting it is a doddle and should only need a Philips head screwdriver. Plus, the diagrams to fit the components are usually short and sweet.

Motherboard screws into the case
All components screw to motherboard or case.
Most components then have a cable from the power supply plugged into them.
Boot up and install operating system from USB or disc.

Fin.



Ed

I tried doing that sort of thing once. Many years ago.

I dont remember just which little fiddly bit it was, but SOMETHING, some wiry whatsit, ended up top of the thing that held the blackout curtains in place over the windows. It stayed there for years (because I couldnt get it down), a constant reminder that I shouldnt try putting stuff together. The only result can be disaster and blazing rage. I have a short fuse and even shorter patience, it turns out.

...Seriously I cant put a RAM stick in without breaking something (done that too). Just aint the type to build/alter stuff. Not without bits ending up wedged in the drywall, anyway.

 

[Raggamuffin]

$2159

Good spec, just won't be future proof for as long. But it should comfortably run new games for 5+ years.

Ed

 

[Outdated]

@Raggamuffin has been pointing out some good options in here, I also prefer Corsair power supplies and Ram. And there is 1 Microsoft product that I like, the 600 Wired keyboard, I type a lot so it’s nice to have a good keyboard.

If money was no object for me I prefer the Gigabytes motherboards with Z Series intel chipset. Most computer users don’t need such a big central processor, but if you’re doing some serious number crunching you need one. Things like database manipulation and video rendering and re-encoding rely heavily on the main processor where as most games just need a decent GPU.

And I’m a bit like you with the money @Misery, I don’t mind spending on things I want but the reason I don’t have money problems is because I don’t like just throwing it away. And like you, I spent a long time living in a remote area where there were no shops, so I had to order stuff in online and assemble it myself.

It was very rarely that I ever had any issues with parts bought online but it is a little problematic if you need to return something. Ordering a whole computer already assembled online should be similar but freight can get expensive. This was why I mostly assembled my own, freight on most components wasn’t too bad but freight on the computer case was always a little unfortunate and I used to reuse cases where I could.

 

[Misery]

Most computer users don’t need such a big central processor, but if you’re doing some serious number crunching you need one. Things like database manipulation and video rendering and re-encoding rely heavily on the main processor where as most games just need a decent GPU.

Aye, this is definitely something I'm needing to consider. I do a lot with fractals... my primary form of digital art... and those drag things down to a near halt on the best of days. The mandelbulbs in particular, those are just... a bit too slow to really work with on my current machine. Even the non-bulb fractals take longer than I'd like, that's for sure. I'd also like to learn some stuff about normal 3D rendering and such too, but... yeah one thing at a time with that.

Currently I'm going through and watching videos and marking stuff down, all that fun stuff. Lots to look through.

And I seem to have somehow stabilized this machine (for now). I'm not quite sure how. Wont stop me from getting a new one though. I can take this current one to the other house and use it there if I can keep it from going bonkers, so that might work out nicely.

EDIT: Okay, still not stabilized yet, bah. But I dont give up that easy.

 

[Outdated]

Just a quick question, is it your computer that’s playing up or the operating system?

Even if you have absolutely no intention of ever trying Linux I’d advise you to download a copy. Linux distributions operate as a Live Desktop running from a USB thumbstick. This means you get the full desktop and all it’s features without having to install anything, just boot from the thumbstick.

It’s a great tool for doing a quick test of your hardware, and also a great tool for recovering files from a dead Windows drive, you get to use a graphical file browser to search for files and copy/paste them to external drives.

I recommend Fedora for this, especially if your machine is a little older, Fedora retains older drivers where as most others dump them after a few years. The link I provided here gives you a Linux with a desktop that operates very similarly to Windows so it should be less confusing to look at.

Fedora Spins | The Fedora Project

spins.fedoraproject.org

And instructions on how to make a bootable thumbstick can be found on the same site:

Preparing for Installation :: Fedora Docs