Should Those on the Spectrum Be Segregated in School?

[Sportster]

I think public schools should have educators trained specifically for those on the spectrum and a place for implementing such education. It has been a VERY long time since I sat in a classroom, but I recall what it was like throughout the years. A classroom, as I remember it, was not Aspie/Autie friendly. Autism is more prominent now and better understood than fifty years ago, so I believe that there should be special concessions made. So yes, I believe that those on the spectrum should be segregated. I think it would be better academically for all concerned.

 

[Judge]

Let's just say in a legal sense that the notion is going down a road best left not traveled. Though the most glaring legal precedent reflects the abolition of racial segregation in schools, Brown v. Board of Education 1954. Effectively throwing out the previous precedent of Plessy v. Ferguson 1896 which established the Doctrine of "Separate But Equal".

In this instance regarding autism, I suppose individual states are adjudicating the issue one-by-one, such as in the case of California. A state that tends to establish trends for other states, for better or worse.

Segregation of Autistic Students Ruled Unlawful

 

[SunnyDay16]

I feel it depends on the individual needs of the student. For me, segregation probably wouldn't of done me much good. The work of the segregated classes looked too easy for me so that's that.

 

[OlLiE]

when i lived in the us, i was lucky enough to be able to go to a private school

i got segregated...to the advanced classes

 

[Judge]

You're probably correct about individual states, because the way it's being done in Ohio is not doing anyone any good. Still, the question remains, should those on the spectrum be segregated in school?

Given all the complex legal issues involved, you'll need to be far more specific. Segregation and discrimination can be potentially legal under some very specific circumstances, however you have not provided them.

Which forces me to consider not only the momentum of law, but the spirit of law as well. Particularly in terms of civil rights and civil liberties. Race, religion, ethnicity, disability, etc., etc.. Segregation based on a mental or physical disability...thin ice!

 

[Mary Terry]

No, I don't think they should be segregated unless they are excessively disruptive with meltdowns and/or stimming behaviors that interfere with the other students' and their own ability to focus and learn. The problem will always be in identifying what constitutes excessive disruption. NTs will never learn about austism unless they are exposed to it, and autistics will never learn about NTs without exposure to them. It is best, in my opinion, for kids to learn about each other while they are young and generally more accepting than teenagers, and have greater supervision by teachers.

Of course, there will always be some special needs students who do not belong in regular classrooms and need very specialized learning assistance and constant supervision. They need to be in classes exclusively devoted to their special needs with properly trained teachers to help them.

 

[Nitro]

IMHO the no child left behind also means that there are many that will never get ahead.
While some students require more one on one attention, there will be others who will not advance at their potential as the educator has to focus on the few that are either learning at a different pace or by a different method.

The newer performance based curriculum attempts to address those issues, but may be a failure in some manners as well.


Please don't stone me for giving my opinion here, but my primary education didn't fail me horribly because what I got out of it was the ability to do research and learn more on my own.
It is my understanding that some can't do that, so they require more personal attention.
My schooling was a chance to learn to interact with my peers and more exposure to learn how the rest of the world functioned.
That in my opinion was a very necessary part of the learning process along with the curriculum they were mandated to offer.



I do however recall sitting in a classroom bored to tears with the lessons as my teachers had to focus on a kid that was still struggling with what should have been very basic education for most.

In jr, and senior highschool, there were special education classrooms set aside for the most challenged learners, but in the first 6 grades, they were mixed among us.

Perhaps more focus needs to be placed on educational methods for those on the autism spectrum, but in the end, just how far can an educational budget be stretched before it bursts?

Extremely disruptive and potentially violent kids do need separated to protect other students, but civil rights say otherwise in most cases.

Sounds like a catch 22 if you were to ask me

 

[Mr Allen]

No, no and did I mention, no? I was kept mostly apart from NY kids at school and I hated it!

Bad idea IMO.

 

[Judge]

Look at it from two ways that tend to be mutually exclusive of one another. From the perspective of public schools and state/local budgets, taxpayers are likely to bulk at the logistics of catering to the individual needs of such students on that level. And state politicians and administrators will as well for similar reasons.

The other part of the equation are the legal implications on the federal level. That what your friend calls "political correctness", our highest court calls the "Fourteenth Amendment". Or what many of us simply refer to as "The Law of the Land".

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Two classic, hardcore reasons to avoid much of any manifestation of segregation in public schools for much of any reason. Too vulnerable to litigation and prosecution, and issues revolving around equal protection. A concern which actually is the one thing both otherwise mutually exclusive concerns have in common.

Legally speaking, what you friend wants is something to seek from within the domain of private institutions- not public ones. Any manifestation of segregation or discrimination of entities catering to the public are legally precarious no matter what political mantra one applies to them.

Perhaps above all, your friend must separate that which is legal, from that which is deemed as practical. More often than not, they too are mutually exclusive of one another.

 

[Iamnotarabot]

Clearly not.

Unless you want them to be compltely cut off from society their entiere life.

Classromm is one of the problem , if a kid doesnt have a stable family and proper condition of life in his own house he will be realy hard to deal with anyway in class.

My father was in a residential school , I think it helped him a lot to have a lots of discipline and routine, the problem is he is cold as a rock.(i am sure he is autistic more on the HFA kind)
My mother had a messy childhood but she had people around her. she learned thanks to a governess/nanny + public school ( I have doubt she might have asperger.)
And they both left school around 14.




We live in a period of time when the scale of everything is just too big.
Everything cost too much for BS reasons , my mother family wasnt rich but they could afford someone to take care of my mother and teach her.

We are forced to spend money of stuff that didnt exist before, to waste time aswell, so we lack ressources and time to do the basic things. the real things.

Every kid needs a special treatement, any one, segregating is a short term solutions.
Our society needs to focus on what matters anyway.

You give room to breath to all the children, they can interract each other,you need to make asd children interract with NT aswell. ( one of my best memory in childhood is a memory of a girl who helped me 1 year to pack my stuff after school)

My parents spend almost nothing except for my education , I had the chance to be in a little scale private school and I stayed there until hightschool.

IMO this is what any kid needs, not just ASD kids.

And this is crucial for many reasons.
We diagnos ASD at a very young age nowadays. So the scale of kid diagnosed is way more important.
We know that the majoiry of kids with an ASD arent as disruptive in class, it depends on many other factos.

So if you diagnose a kid and then put him in a little box only with other kids with ASD i'm sure its a bad idea. You could put a kid there and it would be counterproductive. Some kid might even be missdiagnosed

In addition this seperations will at the same time reduce the quality of the education for other kids , because you will split the ressources allocated to education.

And lets be honest, the way some parents deal with their kids ( not their fault) on the spectrum might also make them very hard to manage for any schoold, even specialized.
Make sure the kid gets proper sleep, proper diet, and maybe he will behave way way way better.
Not to mention the impact of the new technology.

The parents of ASD kids might also be "sometimes" (dont feel that I am talking about your parents or what) the worst to educate their own children. Both my parents told me that their own parent taught them NOTHING(black and white thinking but you get the idea) and the majority of the memory they have about them are heavely negative.

The work of the segregated classes looked too easy for me so that's that.

You are soooo damn right , the biggest disparity are between kids on the spectrum anyway.
So I dont even want to imagine how you could do a class for any type of asd kids...with verbal or non verbal LD, the ADHD kids, the ones with other disabilities, it never ends. And you would need an army of teatchers.



On the contrary if each class as like a minimum number of special needs kid, it reduces the burden of this.And all teatcher should learn how to deal with special behaviors.

My opinion is that what benefits to a kid on the spectrum benefits to all kids.

 

[Progster]

I don't think that, for example, kids with severe learning disabilities, physical disabilities such as blindness or non-verbal autism should be all mixed into a class along with neurotypical kids, with one teacher per class, because it would be impossible for the teacher to educate each individual student according to their needs. It just isn't practical. They need to be in classes together with teachers specially trained to address their needs, which might mean a special school, or speparate classes to be created which can run alongside mainstream classes. I think that each student would need to be assessed and place in the group that best meets their needs - 'high functioning' people like me with Aspergers could probably be placed in mainstream, but could benefit from extra tuition for areas of difficulty or for dealing with or overcoming social difficulties. Some other students could take some classes with mainstream kids, and others in special classes, and others with severe learning difficulties wouldn't be able to cope with mainstream schooling and would need to go to a special school. My brother, who has Tourettes and learning disability, went to such a school and I think that was the right decision for him because he wasn't coping academically and was being bullied.

One very strong argument for taking kids out of mainstream schooling is bullying. Kids with learning difficulties or who are in some way different and who learn alongside NT kids are often bullied, and have low confidence and self esteem. It would be nice if integration with neurodiverse children or children with disabilities could lead to better understanding, and in some cases it might, but the reality is that this doesn't usually happen - kids can be very cruel and often pick on those who are different or those who they perceive to be weaker.

Unfortunately, it all comes down to money; giving all children the best education for them, which they are entitled to, probably isn't going to happen, as school budgets are often overstretched and schools simply can't afford to hire the staff and don't have the resources.

 

[Mattymatt]

Instead of special classes, what about special schools that cater to the needs of people on the spectrum. It's not segregation per se, if the resources allocated and conditions are really of the same quality. I went to a school for people with learning disabilities. I never would have made it in main stream high school and I really needed support for Autism, but at the time Autism as a term really did not exist. So in the absence of any true diagnosis, I was just labeled as AD/HD when I really wasn't. Hindsight being what it is, I think I would've benefited from schooling geared for high functioning autistics with difficulty in executive functioning. I would've benefited very much from things like life skills classes.

 

[Tom]

School systems vary state to state but are mostly behind the curve with the increase in special needs students, whether it be emotional, behavioral, disabilities, autism, etc.

There is no concensus in the school systems as to which of many approaches is better.

In other words, as Galadriel said: 'Who knows?'

 

[Mr Allen]

Instead of special classes, what about special schools that cater to the needs of people on the spectrum. It's not segregation per se, if the resources allocated and conditions are really of the same quality. I went to a school for people with learning disabilities. I never would have made it in main stream high school and I really needed support for Autism, but at the time Autism as a term really did not exist. So in the absence of any true diagnosis, I was just labeled as AD/HD when I really wasn't. Hindsight being what it is, I think I would've benefited from schooling geared for high functioning autistics with difficulty in executive functioning. I would've benefited very much from things like life skills classes.

No, no and did I mention, no?! I went to a special school in the UK, and hated all 5 years of it.

I was bullied intensely, including by the teachers.

 

[Iamnotarabot]

high functioning' people like me with Aspergers could probably be placed in mainstream

This is realy to general.
Mainstream? It depends on the country or whatever but public mainstream school in my opinion isnt enought, I was in a private school with less children , maybe if the class had like 5 more children I wouldnt have function correctly.

But in my opinion any kid need as much as I had a a kid with ASD,this is what I mean, maybe the benefits from someone with asd are more visible, but all the other kids benefits from it aswell.

In addition, how can you tell that the toddler would be asperger or low functionning in the long term?
In addition the worst thing could be to change a kid routine because he is suddenly diagnosed with ASD, this is like the woooooorst thing , his school should handle it.

My opinion is that the shcool system is crumbling from within , and doesnt have any ressources, I talk about the case of France but i'm sure its all the same in all the western countries.

So the best thing is to better the school system in general. I mean this is the priority.

 

[the_tortoise]

I think it really depends on the student, the classroom and the educational system -- i.e. what specific supports are in place for students with special needs (all kinds, not just autism), what those special needs are.

Some students with ASD excel in mainstream education, some struggle but manage, some desperately need to be in some kind of alternate program -- but the same can be said for students with other conditions and for students with no diagnosible conditions but with learning styles that drastically differ from the norm that shapes the standard curriculum.

I remember a kid with a 1:1 aide in one of my elementary school classes -- he didn't disrupt the class and the aide enabled everyone to do well; The regular teacher didn't need to expend any extraordinary effort helping him with anything -- in fact the aide helped other students when the kid she was in the classroom for didn't need her.....so the integration of that particular student into mainstream schooling was beneficial for everyone in the classroom -- students and teachers alike. Had the extra support plan for my classmate simply involved the one classroom teacher taking on extra work, it might have gone differently.....the point being that how integration is done may change the answer to the question of whether or not it should be done.

I think that education is really not individualized enough for anyone. The student to teacher ratio could be lowered to begin with to help facilitate such individualized education, much lower if particular students require a lot of extra support to succeed.

 

[Fino]

I'm sure everything's been said already so I'll just make a joke that they should be separated at recess! Safety reasons!

 

[disconnected]

I’m going to say yes.


If I was born with one leg, it would be very difficult for me to join the school track team. With accommodations I could be taught how to walk and lead a productive life.

I was in separate classes. I have an above average IQ too, but I would have just wasted my time and the teachers time trying to learn in that setting. I got through high school and finished college. My chances probably would have been very slim if I was dumped in the mainstream.

 

[Aidan49]

No.

However, anyone who constantly disrupts a classroom, autistic or not, should not be in said classroom.