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Should the UK Remain in the EU if a hard Brexit will damage the economy?

Discussion in 'Politics Discussion' started by Mr Allen, Aug 11, 2018.

  1. Remain

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  2. Leave

    7 vote(s)
    43.8%
  3. Undecided

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. I don't care either way because I'm not from the UK!

    3 vote(s)
    18.8%
  5. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Nitro

    Nitro Admin/Immoral Turpitude Staff Member Admin V.I.P Member

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    I think what you are forgetting here is that this forum operates on an international level, so you should expect other members from places outside of the UK to weigh in on your topic ;)
     
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  2. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Because the Brexit isn't about only the relationship between the US and Britain.

    In the global economy whenever the EU hiccups it costs American and other nations' investors money. In my own case it amounted to several thousand dollars having held a financial stock involving interests in both the EU and Britain. Anyone who independently owns stocks, a retirement plan or a pension can easily be involved.

    That amounts to a lot of people across the entire planet. Not to mention that some of us have relatives in Britain or the EU, or both who are immediately impacted by all this.

    And then God forbid some of us who are just plain curious about the politics of other nations and peoples, to the extent that it becomes a "special interest" of ours. A shoutout to professor Ted Tapper of Cambridge University. Who personally made his course on British Politics an unforgettable class in political science. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  3. AloneNotLonely

    AloneNotLonely Well-Known Member

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    You have to admit investing in Europe when it's markets are at all time highs despite being flooded with migrants isn't exactly the smartest move in the book.

    The only market in Europe poised for growth is probably Hummus.



    It's going places.
     
  4. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

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    World politics is an interesting topic and affects all of us, wherever we are. It's not as if there isn't news about Trump on our UK TVs and in our newspapers every day - people are interested. What happens in the EU will have a knock on effect on our US brethren just as decisions made by US politicians have an impact here.
    In recent months, some of Trump's decisions (pulling out of the Iran deal, pulling out of the Kyoto accords, relocating the embassy in Israel, trade sanctions against China etc.) have been front page news right across Europe.
    I may not be as qualified as an American to comment on their domestic affairs because I'm not directly affected by them and only hear/read about events there in my chosen news media, but I'm sure as hell interested and happy to debate and be educated.
     
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  5. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Yeah, and since the end of WWII, the British government has been so far up the US Establishment's collective bottoms it's not funny and always will be.

    Remember the "special" relationship between former Labour PM Tony Blair and George W Bush? Blair was so far up Bush's arse he took the UK armed forces into an ILLEGAL War in Iraq on Bush's say so.
     
  6. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    The Internet has made the world a much smaller place than it once was. Small wonder we all have a collective concern in what goes on elsewhere.

    And right now there are any number of happenings in various parts of the globe that could potentially impact most of us. It's all so much more than the usual political kabuki dances of any one country.
     
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  7. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

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    Blair and Bush are both history, thankfully. Blair was an appeaser, a neo-liberalist and a media whore - still is!
    The fact is that on both sides of the pond we are seeing similar problems arising and we can learn from each other. Ordinary Americans have much the same concerns as ordinary Brits. Did you watch that recent documentary series - "Ed Balls in Trumpland"? I don't think it's still on the iPlayer, but if it comes up again it's well worth a watch - quite an eye opener into what everyday Americans think of their country's situation and their leader.
     
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  8. Shiznown

    Shiznown Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget, the UK BEGGED the US to get involved in WWII. We almost didn't even get involved until towards the end of the war.
     
  9. Tesseract

    Tesseract Active Member

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    I'm not "American", I'm Australian, but I was born in Lancashire. I have an opinion on this precisely because I do not want to see the proliferation of authoritarian superstates like the European Union. A few (in my view, treasonous) politicians in Australia have suggested closer co-operation and integration with other states like New Zealand, Indonesia and even China, but I do NOT want to ever see that happen, for reasons I should not have to explain here because they are so self-evident.
    Mr. Allen, fine, you love the E.U. Most of us here hate it, because we can see it for what it truly is - a bloated, bureaucratic, authoritarian level of government that Britain, and other nations within Europe, simply do not need. Free trade associations can exist without powerful blocs like the E.U. and N.A.F.T.A. Other nations, like Poland and Hungary, are also seeing the light, and are now regretting ever having joined in the first place.
     
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  10. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    On the contrary, the reasons I voted remain wasn't because I love the EU, I voted remain because A) I don't have issues with immigration and/or immigrants in general, and B) To protect the rights of disabled people in the UK under EU law, because under the Tories, all the disabled people will be dead eventually from benefit cuts etc IMO.
     
  11. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

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    Immigration is a redundant issue when debating Brexit with leave voters. Granted there are some who harbour racist views and others who believe that immigration is a contributory factor to our current poor state of public investment. Those who hold such opinions are still very vocal about them - just look at the "Have Your Say" section on any BBC article on Brexit if you want to see evidence of that. There is no convincing any one of them to entertain any other ideas. They are the ones looking for someone to blame.
    There's also a huge swathe of people who voted leave who, like you, have no problem with immigration, but had other concerns which led them to their decision.
    People have already expressed concerns in this thread at the federalist direction of the EU - quite a common concern it would seem. My own concerns were related to the outdated style of economics the EU forces us to employ which would hamper any efforts to rebuild our economy in a more constructive fashion. Some were merely distressed at the direction our country has been heading and voted leave in protest - in essence, they believed they were "sticking it to the man" by voting the opposite way to that encouraged by "the establishment".
    As regards the rights of the disabled - it's a valid concern to be sure, but don't for one minute think that the EU has the power to stop the trend. The UN has already produced 5 reports in recent years describing our "systematic violation of the human rights of disabled people" which have been met with denial, obfuscation and outright lies. The EU only has/had the power to express concern and levy symbolic fines which they have so far chosen not to exercise, even before Brexit was even mentioned.
    It's true that the Tories have stacked the post-Brexit position in favour of decimating the rights of workers/the disabled and dismantling important consumer protections, but in reality, few people really thought they would be as callous and opportunistic as they have actually been. The whole process of preparation and negotiation of Brexit has been shocking - all done at the last minute and with seemingly scant regard for the consequences. If things continue to to go way they are then the only ones who will benefit will be the rich parasites who will buy up failing British companies and utilities at bargain basement prices to sell off later at massive profit.
    Interestingly, Jacob Rees Mogg's father actually wrote a book on that very subject - disaster capitalism. Funny coincidence eh?

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Yes, there could be political consequences for the Tories in being unable to secure favorable terms in exiting the EU. But then seriously, did they really expect anything different from the EU?

    Why would anyone think that if Theresa May "buys more time" with the EU that they will change their tune? I just don't see procrastination as a form of political damage control.

    Take it or leave it? EU offers May few options on Brexit deal | Reuters
     
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  13. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

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    It's ALL about buying more time. She and her kind know that if it came to a GE they would be unlikely to win in the current climate. We've had two years of personality politics from someone who lacks an appealing personality. This is why we've had such a torrent of faked and exaggerated stories about Jeremy Corbyn saturating the right wing media (which is almost all the mainstream media in the UK). He's been labelled a communist, a Trotskyite, a Fascist, a spy, a foreign collaborator, an IRA sympathiser, an unapologetic anti-semite, an economic illiterate - you name it, they've thrown it at him. He's weathered it all with composure and put his energies into what matters - policies.
    The polls before the last GE suggested the Tories would crush Labour under their heels, but they ended up just scraping through without a majority. Labour, meanwhile, increased their vote share by the highest amount since 1945.
    Now when you look at the same polls they are almost neck and neck.
    They're afraid - very afraid, so she's looking for any wiggle room to delay the inevitable. When Brexit goes down the pan a GE will have to be called and they'll most likely be out of power for 15 years or more. It will take a LONG time for British voters to forgive the Tories for what they've done to this country in recent years.