Sense of Justice

[IntoTheVoid]

I've always had a big "sense of justice" or whatever you can call it. There are so many things about this world that totally bother me and I want to change them! So I do many activities and I spread awareness. I have many blogs about it and so on. It's my special interest I think.

I enjoy reading books that help me to understand this world more, I enjoy thinking about it and also I enjoy writing about it (blog posts, books), but I totally don't enjoy discussing it with people. Actually I hate it.

But people want to discuss it all the time. Everywhere.

Example: A friend of mine shows up and out of nowhere he starts talking about some of his opinions (usually it's them who start, not me) which I totally disagree with. He expects me that I would agree, but it's not happening. I say "Sorry, but I disagree." and an argument starts. Sometimes I even try to avoid the conversation, to stop it, because it's annoying. Also it does a weird things to my body.

I say "Look, I know you have good intentions, but your solutions won't help people as you think. It probably does the exact opposite. The problem with your opinion is the fact that you ignore the principle X and principle Y. I can recommend you some books and wiki posts about this topic that explain this issue more. It's too complex thing and you see it too simple. Could you read it and think about this again?"

Well no... people never read anything I recommend them.

And it happens all the time. Most discussions lead to nowhere. We are both totally unable to understand each other. It's frustrating, annoying and unlike many people, I don't enjoy it. I wish I could somehow convince people to at least think about some points. Many people told me: "You see the things too logical, but people are not logical, they are emotional. You can't convince them with logic," but this advice is not much helpful. I don't know how to explain things differently than using the logic. I don't have an ability to do anything else than explaining my points with logic.

Anyway, there are times when I totally give up. And avoid all these discussions. But then something happens... something that really bothers me a lot and everybody are talking about it, so it's impossible for me to stay neutral and avoid talking about it.

It's like I hate discussing my opinions and viewpoints with people and I don't want to do it. But in the same time I need to do it because I just can't let it be as it is.

One topic that all of you were probably dealing with - and it's autism itself. You probably met someone who said something like "Autism is mental retardation... People with autism don't have empathy", so you get mad and you try to explain it's not truth. "I have an autism... do I look like I am retarted?" (not really good response tho... some people then try to be funny and say yes).

And after couple of minutes of discussion you realize it leads to nowhere because the person is totally convinced it's "retardation and lack of empathy" and no matter what you say, he's still totally convinced, ignoring your points, repeating his, refusing to read sources and beliveing many obsolete myths. Of course it probably drains your energy and your willingless to discuss anything in the future... You feel upset and tired.

So it's the endless loop of frustration that sometimes leads to even depression and dispair.

Recently I read somewhere the "strong sense of justice is an autism thing" which is no suprise for me. So am I cursed forever?

Any advice?

 

[Mary Terry]

I think a "strong sense of justice" can develop during an abusive childhood. I have no doubt that the reason I became an attorney was a direct result of my narcissistic father's abusive behavior when I was growing up.
There's actually a saying that people who become attorneys have a over-developed sense of justice.

I've learned not to discuss politics with anyone and deflect efforts to engage me in political conversations. It's not worth the irritation and frustration, and my opinions are unlikely to change.

 

[Rasputin]

I used to engage in political discussions, but I realized that no matter what your position is half of the people will disagree and some may attack you. So I avoid these discussions and keep my opinions private.

 

[Judge]

In this incredibly toxic and politically polarized environment, perhaps it's best to choose such discussions exclusively within venues only where political discourse is invited or encouraged.

Otherwise anticipate such an encounter to be volatile. Whether you irk someone who only seeks small talk, or encounter one with a rigid ideological thought process involving positions contrary to your own.

And to consider that anyone can hold righteous views about much of anything. Not something we on the spectrum have any kind of monopoly on.

 

[GadAbout]

I say "Look, I know you have good intentions, but your solutions won't help people as you think. It probably does the exact opposite. The problem with your opinion is the fact that you ignore the economical principle X and principle Y. I can recommend you some books and wiki posts about this topic that explain this issue more. It's too complex thing and you see it too simple. Could you read it and think about this again?"

I'm sure you aren't aware of it, but the above statements assume you are smarter and more correct than the other person.

When you say things like this, you immediately offend the other person. And therefore, they are unlikely to meet you halfway - they are already on the defensive.

Never recommend some reading another person should do before being competent to discuss.

 

[Ken S.]

When confronted with these situations This starts playing in my head and I walk away from it as to avoid an argument.

 

[Tom]

Tbh, it sounds like you want a way to express your own views but do not wish to hear anyone else's.

As for me I avoid the subject like the

 

[Kalinychta]

People don’t take well to the “you’re wrong and here’s why” approach. It makes them feel attacked, so the argument becomes about defending oneself rather than about communication and sharing ideas. I’ve found that if you’re less direct, focus on positives, praise their intentions, find common ground, be willing to admit when you’re wrong and when you don’t have the knowledge to answer something, then people tend to relax. When someone tells us we’re wrong, it feels like a threat to our identity. Be less condescending and less “fire all missiles.” Also sometimes you have to be satisfied with planting seeds rather than expecting to change someone’s complete viewpoint on the spot. Later they’ll probably think about what you said and be open to your ideas if you left a good impression on them, if they didn’t feel talked down to and blitzkrieged.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

Tbh, it sounds like you want a way to express your own views but do not wish to hear anyone else's.

As for me I avoid the subject like the

View attachment 59589

I mention the "autism is a mental retardation" example to demonstrate it could be ANY topic.

 

[Fino]

No matter how much energy I've had, I've never had the energy to try to convince someone they're wrong. There's billions of people, so what's the motivation with wanting to change the one in front of you? Tunnel vision?

 

[Streetwise]

@IntoTheVoid
I tried to think is my perception correct am I hearing anger or am I hearing words

 

[TheSaltyStray]

I think some ASD folks are happy living with rules, even strict ones. We thrive off it sometimes. What leaves rules to interpretation is an individuals moral compass and that subjectively looks different for everyone. My children's dad has recently broke a very strict law regarding personal protection and he was completely unable to understand why this was upsetting to me. No amount of, "This is the law, why are you breaking it?," could get him to realize that despite his personal wants, these laws are in place to keep people safe. He honestly did not see the harm in his actions or his lies.

 

[All-Rounder]

I can relate to it, I wish everyone had my opinions because I know i researched and involved myself in them and that's what I believe is true. It can be easy to dismiss their opinion as false and get frustrated that they do not or cannot see my points. I put myself through unnecessary stress to try to convince some people, but its ultimately their duty to research and improve. I try to avoid irl heavy topics, online it can be easier to explain. And i have to recognize and keep in mind that no opinion is more valuable or more correct than the other. It's practically a choice or something influenced by different thinking, different brain wirings in different people, different perspectives, different experiences.

It is true truth is just one ultimately, but we have to respect everyone's truth, and maybe, just maybe, we are missing something or are wrong. It might be hard and seeming misleading to accept, but truth doesn't matter in the end, that is the only truth. Opinions matter, but they are all equal in the end.

People's beliefs may change, and they may grow and develop in different ways and towards different areas as time goes by. Some may never change. I used to have different beliefs, and I may have a hard time tolerating my past self. But that is a fact and I better keep an open mind and let/accept diversity.

 

[sidd851]

No matter how much energy I've had, I've never had the energy to try to convince someone they're wrong. There's billions of people, so what's the motivation with wanting to change the one in front of you? Tunnel vision?

I once had a buddhist monk ask me:
"Who is the most important person in your life?"

After running down the checklist, the only apparent answer, the only single person that I could separate from the crowd of faces?
The only way that I could narrow it down, to one, single person?

"Me", I answered, reluctantly. It seemed like the only logical answer left to me, but it didn't settle well, or feel right.
I struggled with what felt wrong, about it,
It was possible, I suppose, in my case, but..
The monk? Was I to believe that his answer was the same as mine?
Something just.. didn't.. quite.. ..fit.

Later, before we parted, I said, "Bhante(Pali, for teacher), you asked me earlier who the most important person in my life is.
Now, I would like to ask you the same question.
Who is the most important person in your life?"

Bhante looked at me for a long
moment and said,
"Whoever is in front of me, at the time."

 

[Fino]

I once had a buddhist monk ask me:
"Who is the most important person in your life?"

After running down the checklist, the only apparent answer, the only single person that I could separate from the crowd of faces?
The only way that I could narrow it down, to one, single person?

"Me", I answered, reluctantly. It seemed like the only logical answer left to me, but it didn't settle well, or feel right.
I struggled with what felt wrong, about it,
It was possible, I suppose, in my case, but..
The monk? Was I to believe that his answer was the same as mine?
Something just.. didn't.. quite.. ..fit.

Later, before we parted, I said, "Bhante(Pali, for teacher), you asked me earlier who the most important person in my life is.
Now, I would like to ask you the same question.
Who is the most important person in your life?"

Bhante looked at me for a long
moment and said,
"Whoever is in front of me, at the time."

*implodes*

 

[Streetwise]

I once had a buddhist monk ask me:
"Who is the most important person in your life?"

After running down the checklist, the only apparent answer, the only single person that I could separate from the crowd of faces?
The only way that I could narrow it down, to one, single person?

"Me", I answered, reluctantly. It seemed like the only logical answer left to me, but it didn't settle well, or feel right.
I struggled with what felt wrong, about it,
It was possible, I suppose, in my case, but..
The monk? Was I to believe that his answer was the same as mine?
Something just.. didn't.. quite.. ..fit.

Later, before we parted, I said, "Bhante(Pali, for teacher), you asked me earlier who the most important person in my life is.
Now, I would like to ask you the same question.
Who is the most important person in your life?"

Bhante looked at me for a long
moment and said,
"Whoever is in front of me, at the time."

I would answer who I can actually help

 

[SixTimesNine]

My strong sense of justice comes from:
1. My sister did everything my parents said was wrong and I tried to be the perfect, but my sister got all of the attention and awards. I was also blamed for things she did. Part of this was because my grandmother believed all children are "rotten kids" (except for her son/my father, of course). It also happened because my father had extreme ADHD problems and therefore "remembered" me doing things my sister or someone else did. Near the end of his life, he complained that I never showed any interest in his hobby, woodworking. I pointed out that I had repeatedly begged and pleaded for him to let me help him but he always said "no."
2. I was bullied. The school's solution kept being that I was equally responsible just because I fought back when a bully did something like tackle me while I has getting changed in the locker room. Also, logic and being right had no relevance to the bullies. They would pull down my pants and then call me gay. Uh, hello, your the ones pulling down another boy's pants.
3. Logic was also a big problem for my father. On the one hand, he was proud of my education and intelligence in a very abstract way. But he either treated me like an idiot or he would do the "You always win, so I am taking my ball home" defense. I would present a logical argument with evidence, and he would respond, "Oh, this is not fair because you have so much more education than I do." His position was right of course--I was just better at presenting my side because of an unfair advantage.

 

[Aspychata]

I feel we are all entitled to our opinions because we come to the table with our perspective, so at the time l made my choice, maybe that was the best choice at that time and now l have a established thought pattern. To me, how adaptable you are to anything says that your thought process works, l think staying open and embracing other ideas can be liberating but also, you can't stomp off into pure off- the -grid thinking. Just because you researched something and know you have the right answer is great but the most you can hope for is to get other people to think about something but let them come to their own conclusion, you will receive a lot more respect and have a lot less frustration in general.

 

[Aspychata]

My strong sense of justice comes from:
1. My sister did everything my parents said was wrong and I tried to be the perfect, but my sister got all of the attention and awards. I was also blamed for things she did. Part of this was because my grandmother believed all children are "rotten kids" (except for her son/my father, of course). It also happened because my father had extreme ADHD problems and therefore "remembered" me doing things my sister or someone else did. Near the end of his life, he complained that I never showed any interest in his hobby, woodworking. I pointed out that I had repeatedly begged and pleaded for him to let me help him but he always said "no."
2. I was bullied. The school's solution kept being that I was equally responsible just because I fought back when a bully did something like tackle me while I has getting changed in the locker room. Also, logic and being right had no relevance to the bullies. They would pull down my pants and then call me gay. Uh, hello, your the ones pulling down another boy's pants.
3. Logic was also a big problem for my father. On the one hand, he was proud of my education and intelligence in a very abstract way. But he either treated me like an idiot or he would do the "You always win, so I am taking my ball home" defense. I would present a logical argument with evidence, and he would respond, "Oh, this is not fair because you have so much more education than I do." His position was right of course--I was just better at presenting my side because of an unfair advantage.

I am very sorry that these things happened to you. Hope by talking about this, helps you release these emotions!!

 

[100skerls]

I tend to experience the same thing and I’ve always have the desire to root for the underdog and help the oppressed. As an adult that’s extended into my political beliefs. What has helped me greatly is simply a change in perspective and new information.


Things I’ve found useful:

Some videos detailing how what causes people to left leaning (reacting with logical thinking part of the brain) or right leaning (reacting with the emotional part of the brain). It is down to neurology when it come to patterns in how we think about life and social issues. These patterns predict with high accuracy what our party affiliation is and therefore (loosely) what our opinions will be.

Videos and articles describing the way our democracy was built and is able to continue. Throughout history no one has been right 100% of the time about what is right for the country. On the left people are very pro change and on the right people are very pro tradition. Neither works 100% of the time. Too much change is destabilizing and too little stunts the country’s growth. Essentially everyone has an opinion but no one knows at any given time if their opinion is what is right or not. And everyone constantly underestimates both the likelihood that they are wrong about a given subject and how valuable opposing views are to the health and prosperity of the country.

What’s helped me not get so upset is realizing that the problem isn’t those with opposing views at all. They are necessary. The problem is with how much everybody doesn’t realize this and goes on to hate each other. This is what causes people to blindly support whoever isn’t on the other side, fix stuff that wasn’t broken because the last guy who built it was on the other team, and so on.