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Sensitive Topic Screening sperm donors for autism? As an autistic person, I know that’s the road to eugenics...

AGXStarseed

Well-Known Member
(Not written by me. The article is written by Ari Ne'eman - the founder of the Autistic Self Advocacy Network or 'ASAN' for short)


This thread refers to this recent article, stating that London's Sperm Bank is refusing men with dyslexia, autism and ADHD from donating - triggering outrage over 'eugenics': http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ing-triggering-outrage-eugenics.html#comments


Reproductive technologies are being used to remove people like me from future generations. Who will be next?


Sperm samples cooled in liquid nitrogen: ‘changes may leave humanity less equal, less diverse, and perhaps even less human.’ Photograph: Mads Nissen/Panos Pictures


Britain’s largest sperm bank has a policy of turning away autistic donors and those diagnosed with other neurological disabilities, such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder [ADHD], dyslexia and obsessive compulsive disorder.

The London Sperm Bank’s policies are deeply concerning. But to those of us who have been monitoring the ways in which genetic knowledge is being misused across the globe, they are not surprising. In egg donations (as in sperm donations) similar genetic screening of a diagnosis and a family history of autism, dyslexia and obsessive compulsive disorder is not uncommon. There is considerable evidence to support that these are all conditions with strong genetic components.

In the US, where sperm banks are only very lightly regulated, recipients may select for everything from preferred pets and hobbies to astrological sign. In Israel, sperm banks have been fielding a large number of requests for sperm from members of the military, particularly combat soldiers. As early as the 1980s, unsuccessful efforts were made in California to populate a sperm bank entirely with deposits from Nobel prizewinners.

Two years ago, the Western Australia Reproductive Technology Council authorised an IVF clinic to use pre-implantation genetic diagnosis (PGD), a technique that screens embryos for traits such as gender prior to implantation. Since autism is more commonly diagnosed in boys than girls, the council authorised the screening out of male embryos in families with a prior history of the diagnosis.

The Australian state of Victoria has followed suit. Fortunately, the UK’s fertility regulator has not. The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA), refuses to sanction such techniques, noting the diversity within the autism spectrum and the extent to which sex selection represented an overly speculative way of screening.

The effectiveness of IVF sex selection to avoid autism is up for debate. As an adviser to the American Psychiatric Association DSM-5 workgroup crafting the new diagnostic criteria for autism, I joined my colleagues in the autistic community in making the case that the gender disparity in autism diagnosis was more a matter of sociology than biology. While autism is diagnosed in boys four times as often as in girls, many researchers and advocates believe that this is at least in part attributable to systemic underdiagnosis of women and girls.

In women and girls, traits may be missed owing to different social expectations and subtle biases on the part of medical professionals similar to those that drive diagnostic disparities on the basis of race, age or income. The average clinician still thinks of autism in terms of an eight-year-old Caucasian boy from a middle-class family, and is more likely to miss any autistic person that doesn’t fit that profile.

Nonetheless, the intent of IVF sex selection is clear: reproductive technologies are being used to remove autistic people from future generations, not just to create “designer babies”. Privately run sperm and egg donation programmes, IVF clinics and laboratories around the world are making decisions that could eventually change the human race.

Last month, I joined more than 180 progressive academics, scientists, activists and public intellectuals in an open letter expressing concern over how new gene editing techniques allow for heritable human genetic modification: changes to the human genome that could irrevocably alter the future generations of humanity. New technology is emerging that will allow for “designer generations”.

Many autistic people, myself included, celebrate our unique ways of cognition, sensation and social interaction. We have certain cognitive strengths alongside, and often inseparable from, the very real challenges we face in social communication and sensory processing.

But although some evidence suggests eliminating autism, dyslexia and other similar disabilities might remove valuable talents, along with impairments, this is not the primary reason to oppose the emerging eugenics . There is no clear demarcation point between selection on the basis of autism, obsessive compulsive disorder or dyslexia and selection on the basis of social gregariousness, athleticism or personality.

Neurological disabilities may include severely disabling attributes in many people, but are often extreme manifestations of traits existing in the general population. If we believe that having a child implies making a commitment that persists independent of the existence of preferred attributes, designer children should be a source of grave concern.

Furthermore, disability has always been contextual. Many individuals who are today diagnosed with learning difficulties or intellectual disabilities would not have been considered such in a society before universal literacy, for example. Tomorrow’s social and technological progress may lead to still new disabilities. demonstrating that the quest to eliminate disability will always be a moving target. Such changes may leave humanity less equal, less diverse, and perhaps even less human.

When eugenics threatens to take control of new reproductive technologies, it requires a response on the level of public policy rather than of the individual. The decision by the HFEA to probe the London Sperm Bank’s screening practices is a welcome one. It has already acted to block the use of PGD sex selection as a speculative means of preventing autism. It should apply the same logic to restrictions on sperm and egg donation.

Nor should we stop there. Regulators worldwide should curb eugenic practices. New instruments in international law may be necessary to ensure that “designer babies” do not gain a national home, sparking medical tourism. Managing these challenges presents thorny ethical questions, particularly within a society with a weak commitment to women’s reproductive choice. But it is incumbent upon government to try to develop answers, lest the unfettered free market be allowed to design the future of the human race.



SOURCE: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/30/screening-sperm-donors-autism-autistic-eugenics
 
Autism runs in families. Mine included. Autistic kids are not something most parents want. The risk should be reduced surely? Don't they also block people with other genetic disorders from donating? I don't see the problem of blocking autism from sperm donation. This isn't designer babies, it's reducing their risk of having disorders.
 
Autism runs in families. Mine included. Autistic kids are not something most parents want. The risk should be reduced surely? Don't they also block people with other genetic disorders from donating? I don't see the problem of blocking autism from sperm donation. This isn't designer babies, it's reducing their risk of having disorders.
How about marking such sperm donations, so that the recipients can decide for themselves whether they want it.

And how about screening for stuff like family histories of cardiac disease, diabetes, cancer, strokes, etc, etc? I consider those diseases more serious than AS, or ADHD.
 
How about marking such sperm donations, so that the recipients can decide for themselves whether they want it.

And how about screening for stuff like family histories of cardiac disease, diabetes, cancer, strokes, etc, etc? I consider those diseases more serious than AS, or ADHD.
Who doesn't have someone with any one of those diseases in their family? I'd be surprised if there's a person out there with no person in their family having cancer. It's incredibly common. We'd have no sperm donors.
 
Who doesn't have someone with any one of those diseases in their family? I'd be surprised if there's a person out there with no person in their family having cancer. It's incredibly common. We'd have no sperm donors.
I know. My point was, though, why act as if autism is worse than those things?
Really, there's no genetically perfect people.
 
I know. My point was, though, why act as if autism is worse than those things?
Really, there's no genetically perfect people.
No perfect, no, being a parent you're exposed to the risk your spawn will have something wrong with it. However it seems irresponsible to knowingly increase said risk. Autism is known to be genetic.
 
No perfect, no, being a parent you're exposed to the risk your spawn will have something wrong with it. However it seems irresponsible to knowingly increase said risk. Autism is known to be genetic.
Yes, but so are those other things I listed. They are known with more certainty to be genetic than is autism.

We can't avoid all genetic risk. Why act as if autism is worse than the millions of other genetic risks?
 
Yes, but so are those other things I listed. They are known with more certainty to be genetic than is autism.

We can't avoid all genetic risk. Why act as if autism is worse than the millions of other genetic risks?
Just because we can't prevent all diseases doesn't mean we should give up trying to reduce the risk of any.
 
I must disclose two things before I post:

1) I am active in the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network (ASAN) but my views have nothing to do with their official positions; and

2) I am a fan of in-vitro fertilization, and think it a good idea to screen for genetic abnormalities when considering both donor and recipient

Having said those two things...Oh my goodness, can this get complicated, and man we could find ourselves mired in an endless slippery slope debate.

I know I will get a lot of hell for this, so please understand I am merely presenting the devil's advocate point of view here:

While I strongly believe that autism should NOT be considered a "risk factor" in these screenings, I can at the same time understand people's concerns. Raising a child with "classic autism" is extremely difficult and I can't imagine myself being put in that position. I will never be a parent so I can only view this in the most abstract of terms.

Perhaps that is where we find ourselves with science today. I realize that this is an argument that has been raging for hundreds of years, but..."playing God" has ramifications that we can't immediately foresee. I am almost always in favor of scientific progress, but when it comes to ethics...well...To me, it comes down to a question I have asked myself, and one that has been raised in genetics in the past few decades:

Is it really better to have MORE knowledge? Or is it better to take one's chances, knowing that the potential consequences could be a lot of stress on caregivers, leaving aside the question of what comes of their offspring? If we always know the end result, and our choices are influenced by that, how do we know how many possibilities we are eliminating?

I've heard some on the fringe argue that we are doing harm by allowing treatment for such things as asthma and other "diseases" that are considered "weaknesses," and my counterargument has always been that we are actually EXPANDING our resources when medical advances allow for a greater, more diverse population. Instead of leaving weak-looking infants on a cliff to be devoured by wolves, isn't it better to let them grow into that which they are and allow for greater possibility?

In short...I think this whole thing is absurd. Even casting aside autism...dyslexia? Really? I can't even piece together in my mind why that is a bad thing, as dyslexia is absolutely NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER of intelligence or achievement.

I hope that my assessment is wrong, that this article is incomplete in its facts. I have always been a fan of sciences, particularly of the biological and genetic advancements we have made, but I do wonder where we have to draw the line, human-speaking, when it comes to that dreaded word, "eugenics." I shudder to think what should happen if the worst should come to be.
 
I think any type of agreement, arrangement, contract, etc. whereby a child is conceived for the purpose of giving that child to a person or persons who are not the child's biological parents constitutes human trafficking. I think the right to one's own parents is part of natural law. Having a child is a privilege, but that privilege doesn't override the child's right to her parents. I think sperm donation is an affront to human dignity. If people are treated like products, then the logical outworking will be that the consumers will want their "model" optioned to their preferences.
 
I think any type of agreement, arrangement, contract, etc. whereby a child is conceived for the purpose of giving that child to a person or persons who are not the child's biological parents constitutes human trafficking. I think the right to one's own parents is part of natural law. Having a child is a privilege, but that privilege doesn't override the child's right to her parents. I think sperm donation is an affront to human dignity. If people are treated like products, then the logical outworking will be that the consumers will want their "model" optioned to their preferences.
Personally, I wish that a few more people who use sperm banks, IVF, or surrogates, would consider adoption. Is it really that important that your child be related to you biologically?
 
I think the concern over eugenics is very legitimate. If we pour all of the effort into 'eliminating' genetic disorders, then those living with them are more likely to be ignored. An attitude of 'the new generation won't worry about this, so the we just have to wait for the existing ones to die' is extremely toxic. Plus, I don't like the suggestion that those with more significant disabilities should have never been born. We have folk with classic autism on this very site, even some nonverbal folk, too. And ableism is widespread, guys, it really is.

This idea that its a good thing to get rid of us (even if just through genetic selection) is not going to help our community.
 
But if we have to choose only a few to try to eliminate, while leaving others alone, why autism?
But it's not limited to a few. Different groups look to cure different diseases. Cancer is getting more treatable so they're looking at treating those who already have it. These kind of diseases are focused in on by drug companies as they yield the highest profit for the absolutely huge investment. There's lots of drugs out there for heart disease. This is drug company researching territory. Only they have the huge budgets needed. Most is focused on these diseases.

Autistic kids aren't easy to raise. There's no cure for it. Autistic kids grow into autistic adults. The risk of an autistic person, or someone with a family history of autism, having an autistic kid is much higher than someone with no history. Therefore it is reasonable to say no we don't want autistic sperms.
 
I think the concern over eugenics is very legitimate. If we pour all of the effort into 'eliminating' genetic disorders, then those living with them are more likely to be ignored. An attitude of 'the new generation won't worry about this, so the we just have to wait for the existing ones to die' is extremely toxic. Plus, I don't like the suggestion that those with more significant disabilities should have never been born. We have folk with classic autism on this very site, even some nonverbal folk, too. And ableism is widespread, guys, it really is.

This idea that its a good thing to get rid of us (even if just through genetic selection) is not going to help our community.
Your absolutely correct. As far as I know there is no known genetic marker for autism, so I'm not sure how they can tell autistic sperm from non Autistic sperm. Genetic mutations can't be stopped since we can't spot them in till they happen.
 
Is this really the path to eugenics?
I mean, is it really going to advance the eugenics movement in any significant way? How many women actually use sperm donations? And shouldn't women get a choice about the child they have? After all women get to chose their partners and will be attracted to those with certain characteristics.

Also, we need to think about the child who would be born. For example, there are some NT women out there who would be completely unsuitable and unable to give an autistic child the happy childhood all children deserve. Would it be more immoral not do everything possible to make sure that the child conceived will be happy, safe and loved?

Feel free to disagree/correct me. This a moral dilemma and I haven't formed any solid conclusions. I'm not trying to upset anyone, these are just the questions and thought which came to mind.
 
But it's not limited to a few. Different groups look to cure different diseases. Cancer is getting more treatable so they're looking at treating those who already have it. These kind of diseases are focused in on by drug companies as they yield the highest profit for the absolutely huge investment. There's lots of drugs out there for heart disease. This is drug company researching territory. Only they have the huge budgets needed. Most is focused on these diseases.

Autistic kids aren't easy to raise. There's no cure for it. Autistic kids grow into autistic adults. The risk of an autistic person, or someone with a family history of autism, having an autistic kid is much higher than someone with no history. Therefore it is reasonable to say no we don't want autistic sperms.
There is always a chance of genetic mutations and variations. People how have autism aren't defective or broken
 
There is always a chance of genetic mutations and variations. People how have autism aren't defective or broken
We have a disorder. People don't want kids with a disorder usually. Most down syndrome babies get aborted. This is not our choice, it's the people parenting that kid. If they're not ok with the higher likelihood of autism then why is that wrong?
 
Is this really the path to eugenics?
I mean, is it really going to advance the eugenics movement in any significant way? How many women actually use sperm donations? And shouldn't women get a choice about the child they have? After all women get to chose their partners and will be attracted to those with certain characteristics.

Also, we need to think about the child who would be born. For example, there are some NT women out there who would be completely unsuitable and unable to give an autistic child the happy childhood all children deserve. Would it be more immoral not do everything possible to make sure that the child conceived will be happy, safe and loved?

Feel free to disagree/correct me. This a moral dilemma and I haven't formed any solid conclusions. I'm not trying to upset anyone, these are just the questions and thought which came to mind.
Your post is quite valid. It is a moral dilemma, shed in the same light as people wanting to cure autism. Autism isn't somethings that's needed to be cured like an illness. So why make a point of removing autistic genes from the gene pool. Does that all make sense to everyone?
 
We have a disorder. People don't want kids with a disorder usually. Most down syndrome babies get aborted. This is not our choice, it's the people parenting that kid. If they're not ok with the higher likelihood of autism then why is that wrong?
Because there is nothing wrong with being autistic, yes we have a disorder because we neurologically function differently being a Minority we have to conform to society. Society doesn't conform around us. I'm left handed in a world set up for right handed people. I know it's far deeper than some as black and white as dominant handednesss but my point is that the autistic population doesn't have the benefit of being Majority same as leftys. I would like a to find a folding knife designed for a left handed user. Sorry for getting off topic lots of things came to mind. Lol
 

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