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Really like numbers

Discussion in 'Obsessions and Interests' started by Cazelle, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Cazelle

    Cazelle Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so I have a fascination with numbers. Sometimes almost bordering on an obsession. I love numbers. I love certain numbers and dislike others. I hate being assigned a number I don't like - it can ruin my day. Sometimes I will go out of my way to avoid a number I don't like. I don't think I could buy a house with a number I don't like. Or a car with a licence plate I don't like. When driving I notice nearly every licence plate around me and quickly evaluate how I feel about it. It is bizarre but it is me. I've always remembered people's phone numbers, since I was little. When I was 14 or 15 I memorised Pi to 512 decimal places. Numbers are exciting and calming for me; they can bring me happiness or distress. I think it actually impacts on my ability to fully function at times.

    Does anyone else have this?
     
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  2. Fridgemagnetman

    Fridgemagnetman I only have one V.I.P Member

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    I don't have it but like people who do.

    It's interesting that it's a really calming thing.

    I memorized old bank accounts,number plates and telephone numbers. I was more into reading the dictionary,though.

    I think @Nervous Rex once memorised Pi to 2 decimal places when he was 30.
    :)

    (joke just for him)

    but he is really into numbers and I am sure he will turn up.
     
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  3. Aspychata

    Aspychata My Art Work

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    Think being on the spectrum gives us strange preoccupations. The fact that u recognize it and accept it the first part of it. l tend to get occupied with different things, now l just pull back and ask myself is this silly thing okay and is it not hindering something vital l need to do. As long as your cognitive abilities are intact, l say love numbers. Maybe you can find some type of outlet that lets you fully immerse in this. l love looking at computer code because l like to check out the strings of random numbers. Sadly l realised l could do this for hours. That's some seriously screwed up info about me.
     
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  4. techteach

    techteach Captain Oblivious

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    If it's relaxing and doesn't interfere with life I say go for it.:) Sometimes I will start out doing something that's relaxing and I get where it is very hard to stop, I get kind of stuck (obsessed.) So I'm no longer enjoying it but I am feeling driven?o_O That's very UN-relaxing...

    I do very much relate to the feeling about numbers, but they always seem friendlier to me than words. And they are easier to remember....
     
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  5. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I'm more of a letter and word person, too. Don't have any that I don't like. That would be in the colors category - I avoid anything yellow. Even soaps and shampoos - no yellow or yellowish. My teachers used to think they were punishing me when they would have me write a sentence a hundred times - it wasn't punishment. :) But I usually wrote it more in list form: I I I I I will will will will will not not not not not.....
    And in my spare time would see how many words I could make out of a word - and kept crossword puzzles handy. (I never seen my grandmother without a crossword puzzle book in her hand).
     
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  6. Nervous Rex

    Nervous Rex High-functioning autistic V.I.P Member

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    I have been summoned by the 8008 spell.

    Well, I rounded it to a whole number, so the first two digits matched my age at the time. At 31, I added one more digit of precision.
     
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  7. Nervous Rex

    Nervous Rex High-functioning autistic V.I.P Member

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    Yes, this is me. Numbers all the way.

    I count things without even realizing I'm doing it. One time we were waiting to be seated at a restaurant and my mother observed, "Rex is bored. He's counting again." I was counting the bricks forming an archway in the entrance. Something in the back of my mind expects to find useful information in how many of anything there is.

    I recognize my car and my friends' cars by their license plates more easily than I do by their look. I read all license plates and usually calculate what their score their numbers would be in cribbage. I do the same with the serial numbers on paper money.

    I don't have any aversions to certain numbers, but I love finding significant facts about them. I like to practice mental math. Given any number (of a reasonable size), I will try to break it down to its prime factorization, see how it reduces using the Collatz conjecture or the happy numbers pattern, see if it's a Fibonacci number, combinatoric, etc. Basically play with it until the next number comes along.
     
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  8. Nervous Rex

    Nervous Rex High-functioning autistic V.I.P Member

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    ...And can I just say how useful it is sometimes to compulsively count things.

    I was helping someone move and one of my friends was carrying a large box down the stairs. He said, "I can't see the steps." Immediately I said, "There's 18 steps. Count them and you'll know when you're at the bottom."

    Helping pack up the van and someone says, "Will this all fit?". Me: Yes, he has fewer than 200 boxes, and this van fits 6 boxes on a side, 8 high, and at least 12 deep.

    I am a clerk in my church and attend a lot of meetings to take minutes. Afterward, I'm sometimes asked how many people attended, because they know I've already counted.

    Maybe I only think it's useful because I'm like a kid with a hammer who thinks everything in the world is a nail. Numbers are my hammer.
     
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  9. Fridgemagnetman

    Fridgemagnetman I only have one V.I.P Member

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    Are you kidding me?

    The whole fun in steps is not knowing which one is the bottom or the top.

    You then get that 'feeling' when you step expecting there to be a step and there isn't.

    Unbeatable. Especially when it's the top step.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  10. AnnadinNoliman

    AnnadinNoliman Member

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    I also love numbers! I'm not specifically into counting things much anymore, but I have an intense obsession with more abstract mathematics and math history. I only memorized up to 33 digits of pi, so you've got me beat there!
    I get a lot of weird looks when I tell people my favorite hobby is math, I always explain it like painters making paintings out of pain, poets write poems out of words, and mathematicians make theorems out of ideas. It's all the same cloth to me, math and art, and I very much approach it as such. It's one of the most profoundly beautiful things I feel like humanity is capable of doing, and infinite playground that only exists in our minds.
    I also identify very closely with Rex here! I feel like we'd get along. Collatz conjecture always drive me mad when I'm doing a big number though, not very good at multiplying by three, I've been playing with it looking for patterns for a few months now (unsurprisingly, making no progress on the problem that stumped Erdos, but it's always fun to try).
    Fun story: when I got my wisdom teeth removed I remember waking up without my glasses, feeling very strange (because of the drugs) and the only thing I could make out was a glowing number on this machine next to me. I then tried to find its prime factors, as I am like to do, and I realized that the drugs were influencing my brain so strongly I couldn't focus on the math! I wouldn't stop sobbing for an hour because I couldn't figure it out.
    Dad told me later, it was a prime number, which is pretty funny.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  11. Cazelle

    Cazelle Well-Known Member

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    Over the last few days I have been looking for number plates with triple numbers (eg. 333, 555) and am happy to say I managed to see all of them within about 3 days (most NZ number plates currently have 3 letters then 3 numbers). This made me weirdly happy.

    I try not to obsessively count things as then I get anxious if the outcome is a number I don't 'like'.

    Oh, and I also like things to be even or symmetrical.
     
  12. Nervous Rex

    Nervous Rex High-functioning autistic V.I.P Member

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    Your Dad noticed that? I'm guessing he totally gets you.
     
  13. Nervous Rex

    Nervous Rex High-functioning autistic V.I.P Member

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    Here's where I'm at. If the Collatz Conjecture is false, then there is at least one number which:
    a) Increases infinitely. I haven't made any headway on proving that such a number exists or proving that such a number can't exist.
    Or
    b) Forms a loop, such that following the operations of the Collatz Conjecture returns to that number. If such a loop exists (aside from the 1-4-2-1 loop), there must be a smallest number. I've tried finding the smallest number in a loop through this:

    Express the starting number and ending number as: Start => End.
    Given 5, one would see that we get 5 => 16 => 8 => 4. I'll stop there, since 4 < 5, 5 cannot be the lowest number in a loop. I represent this as 5 => 4.

    Now, I start with the set of all natural numbers being:
    x => x

    Right away, I need to know if x is odd or even, so I split it into two cases:
    1) 2x => 2x, which reduces to 2x => x and since I get a result less than the original, it is resolved. That is, this shows that every even number reduces to a number less than itself under the Collatz Conjecture.
    2) 2x + 1 => 2x + 1. I multiply the right-hand side (the result) by 3 and add 1 to get 2x + 1 => 6x + 4. Since both numbers on the right are even, I can divide the result by 2 to get: 2x + 1 => 3x + 2.

    This leaves one unresolved case:
    2x + 1 => 3x + 2. I can't know if 3x + 2 is odd or even until I know whether x is odd or even, so I must split it again:

    1) 4x + 1 => 6x +2, which becomes 4x + 1 => 3x + 1, and is resolved. Note that this means that every number that is of the form 4x + 1, where x >= 1 (5, 9, 13, 17, 21, ...) reduces to a number less than itself after 3 steps. This also contains the special case where x = 0 and 1 => 1 after 3 steps. That's the 1-4-2-1 loop mentioned above. But after just this much work, we have eliminated 25% of all numbers from being part of a loop.

    2) 4x + 3 => 6x + 5, which becomes 4x + 3 => 9x + 8. This is unresolved and need to be split yet again.

    We can go on like this forever. I've proven that you will never reach a point where all cases are resolved, because for any number of steps you choose, there is a number that requires that many steps to reduce to something less than itself.

    But, let's try solving for Start = End. All cases are of the form Ax + B => Cx + D. For Ax + B to be equal to Cx + D, we need:
    Ax + B = Cx + D
    Ax - Cx = D - B
    (A - C)x = (D - B)
    x = (D - B) / (A - C)
    For this to be a positive number, we need C > A and D < B or we need C < A and D > B.

    Now, note that there is a ratio of C/A and a ratio of D/B, such that D/B >= C/A. This follows from the fact that we start with 2x + 1 => 2x + 1 (The single unresolved case after the first split, and in which C = A and D = B). From there, we either divide by 2, which halves both C/A and D/B, so that if D/B >= C/A before dividing then D/B >= C/A after dividing. Or, we multiply by 3 and add 1, in which case C is multiplied by 3, but D is multiplied by 3 and has 1 added to it, so that D/B > C/A. Since D/B >= C/A in all cases, it's impossible to have C > A (so that C/A > 1) and D < B (so that D/B < 1).

    Thus, the only way for there to be a loop is to find a case where: Ax + B => Cx + D, such that C < A and D > B.

    I wrote a program to start with the first case, x => x (represented in the program as 1x + 0 => 1x + 0) and split cases and resolve cases as shown above. The number of unresolved cases increases geometrically, so that after 41 steps my PC ran out of hard drive space but had resolved 12 billion cases. There were no cases at all where C < A and D > B. So, either I didn't test enough cases or there's a rule and a proof in there somewhere that C < A and D > B is impossible.

    I haven't found the rule or proof yet. Since all cases resolve to A being a power of 2 and C being a power of 3, I've been looking for a proof that 2^X - 3^Y > F(X), where Y is chosen as the smallest integer value such that 2^X > 3^Y, where F(X) increases with X faster than D would increase with the Collatz operations. This is where I'm stuck.

    I also have an idea to perform a targeted search for very (very very) large numbers that have the highest probability of producing a case where C < A and D > B, but I haven't implemented it yet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  14. Nervous Rex

    Nervous Rex High-functioning autistic V.I.P Member

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    By the way, this is what I sound like when I get to monologuing about my special interests. This is why I can - and have - talked a lawyer to sleep. :eek:
     
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  15. tducey

    tducey Well-Known Member

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    Numbers are my thing as well. I was away last week as I got to meet some new family. 24 yrs. ago I learned of some of their birthdays. 24 years later I still know all their birthdays.
     
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