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Really a disorder?

H

harrietjansson

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that is my question. ASD a disorder?
NT could also a disorder, right?
We are all disordered. I would say so.
As an aspies I am very grown up if I can sit alone at home and compose 4-part harmony accompaniments for hymn melodies. How many NT can actually sit at a piano for some time like I do.
It is just an example. Many aspies seem to have problems with this as well but I guess are another type if aspie. Maybe they have ADD/ADHD which I do not.
So, if I get to look at a thing methodically I might be able to understand it. Most NTs and some aspies just wanna do things at once. Most Nts eant the whole picture at once. I like sitting at my piano trying different chords and voice leading.
I learn things by just trying things out but only methodically. My organ and singing teacher seem kinda aspie in his way of behaving and explaining music. I guess that is why he is so good at playing the pipe organ.
I am not a flexible person but if I get to learn things my way I might suceed.
Is this how it works for you as well?
I guess this is ASD without ADD/ADHD?
In the beginning I might start by less theory than certain NTs ie I start by brainstorming in order to find what way works for me.
 
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harrietjansson said:
Yeah, that is my question. ASD a disorder?
NT could also a disorder, right?
We are all disordered. I would say so.
As an aspies I am very grown up if I can sit alone at home and compose 4-part harmony accompaniments for hymn melodies. How many NT can actually sit at a piano for some time like I do.
It is just an example. Many aspies seem to have problems with this as well but I guess are another type if aspie. Maybe they have ADD/ADHD which I do not.
So, if I get to look at a thing methodically I might be able to understand it. Most NTs and some aspies just wanna do things at once. Most Nts eant the whole picture at once. I like sitting at my piano trying different chords and voice leading.
I learn things by just trying things out but only methodically. My organ and singing teacher seem kinda aspie in his way of behaving and explaining music. I guess that is why he is so good at playing the pipe organ.
I am not a flexible person but if I get to learn things my way I might suceed.
Is this how it works for you as well?
I guess this is ASD without ADD/ADHD?
In the beginning I might start by less theory than certain NTs ie I start by brainstorming in order to find what way works for me.
Click to expand...
A lot of the reason it’s called a disorder is because it’s categorised in mental health ,that’s how it was viewed 70 years ago,There are members on this forum who think it’s a disorder, psychiatry still calls it a disorder society in general might be starting to get the idea that we don’t agree I think what psychiatry confused was anxiety !with autism !and some of the disorders that stem from anxiety.
there is still the arrogance that if you don’t react to anxiety in the way neuro typicals do you are just too different.
 
I think "disorder" is a term or category medical science uses to describe a condition it deals with. No more no less. Since spectrum conditions come with symptoms that cause suffering, such as anxiety, social issues and so on medical science tries to develop tools to help those so it needs to call it something. The stigma component attached is solely on the person or a group that chooses to stigmatize.
 
I think I'd call it a condition that some people are disordered or disabled by and some aren't.

Where I get hung up when debating the "is it a disorder or not" issue is that, for some people, it very much DOES rise to the level of a disability. I'd wager, but I'm not certain, that usually those of us who are on what would be called the higher functioning end of the spectrum, if we were going to see it that way - are the ones regularly discussing this. Which raises some questions about whether those who are more severely affected are being left out of the discussion. I have a hard time with the concept that this isn't a disorder when I know that there are those among us who cannot speak or leave the house without assistance.

On the other hand, I personally wasn't able to receive a diagnosis (or even a formal evaluation, though I didn't set out specifically to do that) because I "am not disabled enough". So categorizing it as a disorder really does negatively affect those of use who are negatively affected by it but not to the level that we can't be self-sufficient, hold down jobs, etc.

Am I disordered by it? Yes, in the way that I have a tendency to have meltdowns when overstimulated and that makes it hard to do certain tasks or function in certain environments. Yes, also, in the way that my communication style is different from a large percentage of the population and that makes some situations difficult to navigate. No, in the way that, armed with the knowledge of who I am and how I experience the world, and how it differs from others, I've been able to avoid these issues almost entirely, mitigate them when I can't avoid them, and communicate my needs and communication style clearly so that (hopefully) I can communicate with people even if I couldn't otherwise.

So I've learned to manage in such a way that it's not a disorder. The thing is, it took me 30 years to get to this point. If I'd had this understanding 15 years ago, I could have been saved from a lot of grief. The catch 22 is, I needed a diagnosis to gain that understanding, and I was "too high functioning" for a diagnosis, so I floundered around in psychological mire for decades getting almost no help or insight of actual value from mental health professionals, and was then left to sort it out on my own.

It's a complicated question. I'm really just thinking out loud here, but there are definite positives and negatives to labeling it as a disorder. I really don't think it's a situation where a "one size fits all approach" is likely to be effective.
 
What strenght do you aspies have that a NT ussualy struggle with?
And do you have anything to say about my way of learning or dealing with stuff?
 
tree said:
A disorder is a disruption to regular bodily structure and function.
Click to expand...
As @tree pointed out the definitions, I have to agree that it is a disorder. A disorder does not have to be severe or to the point that makes a person 'way out there'. And there are many positive attributes to autism. But our brains are physically wired differently than the majority, and thereby functions differently, thus making it a disorder.
And because the way our brain is wired, it brings along other conditions, such as anxiety.
Say you have a room full of people, one with autism. While all the others are just calmly listening to a speaker, the autist is sitting there becoming more and more uneasy because of all the noises (fans, people squirming and chewing gum, birds flapping outside the window, etc, etc) and the lights seem too bright and the seating is not comfortable and the shirt keeps moving up and sleeves keep dropping down ever so slightly. All these things going on, the autist begins feeling threatened and starts to go into the fight or flight mode, whatever it happens to be for them (whether its a meltdown or freezing). And it's all because our brain is wired like that.
 
Many strengths. Details and focus when it's something that interests the autist. Even the way we see things - ability to pick out details and items that are easily missed by NT's. Determination. The list goes on.
 
Pats said:
As @tree pointed out the definitions, I have to agree that it is a disorder. A disorder does not have to be severe or to the point that makes a person 'way out there'. And there are many positive attributes to autism. But our brains are physically wired differently than the majority, and thereby functions differently, thus making it a disorder.
And because the way our brain is wired, it brings along other conditions, such as anxiety.
Say you have a room full of people, one with autism. While all the others are just calmly listening to a speaker, the autist is sitting there becoming more and more uneasy because of all the noises (fans, people squirming and chewing gum, birds flapping outside the window, etc, etc) and the lights seem too bright and the seating is not comfortable and the shirt keeps moving up and sleeves keep dropping down ever so slightly. All these things going on, the autist begins feeling threatened and starts to go into the fight or flight mode, whatever it happens to be for them (whether its a meltdown or freezing). And it's all because our brain is wired like that.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't such a person have more than one diagnosis? I only has Aspergers.
With only Aspergers you can manage such a situation more easily I thinkm
 
In my country they categorize autism into three levels based on the amount of support needed and severity of symptoms. Using Tree's provided definitions 'Syndrome' seems to me to fit better but you can look at it different ways. With level 2 and 3 the problems are more obvious. With level 1, most manage it more or less and proceed with their life. What is considered disordered can be reordered. Some even find advantages in certain aspects, some do not.

The specifics vary from person to person. The exact details of what works for you may not apply to others in general. Unless you want to create another subdivision which you can call Harrietjansson Syndrome.

;)
 
It can be called anything anybody wants to call it, but it will still have no effect on how each individual experiences it.
 
Nitro said:
It can be called anything anybody wants to call it, but it will still have no effect on how each individual experiences it.
Click to expand...

Not sure about that. If it's stigmatised, then an individual will also have to deal with that stigma - and so it will influence their individual experience because it will influence reactions (and judgment) of the society as the whole - and so also the people they surround themselves with, their friends, family, acquaintances. It can cause a whole lot of issues on its own. As such, while we take into account the view of the majority, it truly is a disorder, it also means that as long as it is called disorder, we will never be seen as normal, socially accepted individuals. We will stay that little dirty stain on the normality of other people.
 
It's a difference.

Nitro said:
It can be called anything anybody wants to call it, but it will still have no effect on how each individual experiences it.
Click to expand...

I believe one person who regards it as a disorder and another who regards it as a disease and another who regards it as a difference are going to experience it differently because of how they relate to it and its manifestations.
 
Pats said:
As @tree pointed out the definitions, I have to agree that it is a disorder. A disorder does not have to be severe or to the point that makes a person 'way out there'. And there are many positive attributes to autism. But our brains are physically wired differently than the majority, and thereby functions differently, thus making it a disorder.
And because the way our brain is wired, it brings along other conditions, such as anxiety.
Say you have a room full of people, one with autism. While all the others are just calmly listening to a speaker, the autist is sitting there becoming more and more uneasy because of all the noises (fans, people squirming and chewing gum, birds flapping outside the window, etc, etc) and the lights seem too bright and the seating is not comfortable and the shirt keeps moving up and sleeves keep dropping down ever so slightly. All these things going on, the autist begins feeling threatened and starts to go into the fight or flight mode, whatever it happens to be for them (whether its a meltdown or freezing). And it's all because our brain is wired like that.
Click to expand...
do you think wired differently! is dis!- ordered ,is different dis?
 
Pats said:
As @tree pointed out the definitions, I have to agree that it is a disorder. A disorder does not have to be severe or to the point that makes a person 'way out there'. And there are many positive attributes to autism. But our brains are physically wired differently than the majority, and thereby functions differently, thus making it a disorder.
And because the way our brain is wired, it brings along other conditions, such as anxiety.
Say you have a room full of people, one with autism. While all the others are just calmly listening to a speaker, the autist is sitting there becoming more and more uneasy because of all the noises (fans, people squirming and chewing gum, birds flapping outside the window, etc, etc) and the lights seem too bright and the seating is not comfortable and the shirt keeps moving up and sleeves keep dropping down ever so slightly. All these things going on, the autist begins feeling threatened and starts to go into the fight or flight mode, whatever it happens to be for them (whether its a meltdown or freezing). And it's all because our brain is wired like that.
Click to expand...
do you think if you suffer permanent !!!brain injury and you are neurotypical you are disordered ?
 
onlything said:
Not sure about that. If it's stigmatised, then an individual will also have to deal with that stigma - and so it will influence their individual experience because it will influence reactions (and judgment) of the society as the whole - and so also the people they surround themselves with, their friends, family, acquaintances. It can cause a whole lot of issues on its own. As such, while we take into account the view of the majority, it truly is a disorder, it also means that as long as it is called disorder, we will never be seen as normal, socially accepted individuals. We will stay that little dirty stain on the normality of other people.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't think you got my point.

Calling a cut a warm fuzzy name won't make it feel any better.
Calling autism by another name won't either.
 
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