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Oren Franz

Well-Known Member
I wonder if Autism Spectrum Disorder can be a precursor to Schizotypal Personality Disorder, because I meet some diagnostic criteria for odd beliefs, lack of many friends and paranoid ideation.
 

Judge

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
From what I have read, not a precursor so much as both conditions have certain similarities.

"The line between autism and schizoid personality disorder can sometimes be blurry, but a closer look reveals the difference may lie in social capacity versus motivation."

 

huimaa

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I think ASD makes it a higher risk for people to have any kind of pd because traumas and stressors of life gets to us on a deeper level. So yeah, I would say it can be a precursor but no one else can diagnose these things but professionals.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
Psychologists have created hundreds of labels for various types of abnormalities but there isn't much evidence that there are any significant differences between the various categories or that the cause of the symptoms is any different. Many of the treatments are the same regardless of the diagnosis (for conditions that cause similar symptoms) which is probably why doctors don't spend much time trying to get a completely accurate diagnosis. I don't know how SPD is treated but if it's treated the same way as ASD, does it really make a difference which condition you're diagnosed with?

People diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder may simply have subclinical autism (mild autism that isn't severe enough to qualify for a diagnosis of ASD). I think it may also be possible that they simply developed autistic traits later in life (when they were an older child or adult) which would prevent them from qualifying for a diagnosis of ASD.
 

Oren Franz

Well-Known Member
Some people say that Autism Spectrum Disorder is not a developmental delay, but a neurological difference, but that is confusing, because the diagnostic criteria for Autism Spectrum Disorder includes criteria A, delays in communication, and B restricted interest and repetitive behaviors, as well as sensory issues.
 

Neonatal RRT

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Some people say that Autism Spectrum Disorder is not a developmental delay, but a neurological difference, but that is confusing, because the diagnostic criteria for Autism Spectrum Disorder includes criteria A, delays in communication, and B restricted interest and repetitive behaviors, as well as sensory issues.
I think we have to be cautious with our language when it comes to ASD,...as we all know, there can be a significant difference between and ASD-1 and an ASD-3, but even within these categories, there remains asymmetrical intelligences,...plural. In many cases, both statements can hold some truth. In the broader perspective, it is a neurological difference from say, a neurotypical. Within the more specific sense, each individual may have intelligence in one specific area that is above the "norm", other areas "average",...and others, below the norm. There are certain traits that make us all autistic, but individually there appears to be far more neurodiversity within our population than the neurotypical population.
 

Oren Franz

Well-Known Member
I think we have to be cautious with our language when it comes to ASD,...as we all know, there can be a significant difference between and ASD-1 and an ASD-3, but even within these categories, there remains asymmetrical intelligences,...plural. In many cases, both statements can hold some truth. In the broader perspective, it is a neurological difference from say, a neurotypical. Within the more specific sense, each individual may have intelligence in one specific area that is above the "norm", other areas "average",...and others, below the norm. There are certain traits that make us all autistic, but individually there appears to be far more neurodiversity within our population than the neurotypical population.
It's just listed in Neurodevelopmental Disorders section in DSM-5-TR and ICD-11. Thank you, your explanation is much better!
 

Silhouette Mirage

Super Nerd
V.I.P Member
As others have said, that's partly the issue with putting everything into a neat little box; some peoples' box might have holes in it, or it might be stacked inside of another box. There are plenty of overlaps.

Also, the only thing that really unites us here is a set of symptoms, not really a common set of causes or catalysts
 

Oren Franz

Well-Known Member
As others have said, that's partly the issue with putting everything into a neat little box; some peoples' box might have holes in it, or it might be stacked inside of another box. There are plenty of overlaps.

Also, the only thing that really unites us here is a set of symptoms, not really a common set of causes or catalysts

That makes sense now, thank you!
 

Aspychata

Serenity waves, beachy vibes
V.I.P Member
But the OP searches for ways to divide and conquer the subject matter which is very much our trait of a information dump approach.:D:D
 

Oren Franz

Well-Known Member
I think "Autism Spectrum Disorder" should be renamed to Autism Severity Disorder, because some uneducated people hear the word "Spectrum" and think that everyone is on the Autism Spectrum, and that is not true. Although, more people happened to be diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder than a few decades ago, neurologically
developed people hold the majority.
 

Ronald Zeeman

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I have been watching a lot of you-tube videos lately, watching a few Edward Witten strongly suspect he is one of us. Doubt he ever got diagnosed or even cares. If he ever admitted he was on the spectrum the attitude toward people on the spectrum would change immediately.

Strangely where he goes physics goes. found out a few months ago he is following information theory, I almost had a heart attack when I found out, considering my epiphany following my stroke. he got an undergraduate degree
in history, then a PHD in physics. took no advanced math in university. won the Fields medal. Now considered the world's top mathematician. No peers

My knowledge of math is limited to high school, Being an Aspie gave me the ability to visualize so strongly it's not funny a real gift.
 
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Oren Franz

Well-Known Member
Making a difference between Autism Spectrum Disorder and Neurotypicals with persistent and consistent autistic tendencies just splits our hair, and let me explain why.


The only difference between ordinary people with persistent and consistent autistic tendencies and people with Autism Spectrum Disorder actually makes no difference, the only difference is one is not diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder and the second is diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Let’s look at what Neurotypical means.


What does Neurotypical mean? Disclaimer: The term Neurotypical belongs to Google, not me.


neu·ro·typ·i·cal

/ˌn(y)o͝orōˈtipikəl/


adjective

adjective: neurotypical; adjective: neuro-typical

not displaying or characterized by autistic or other neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior.
"neurotypical individuals often assume that their experience of the world is either the only one or the only correct one"

If we get very technical like a digital computer, we can consider Neurotypicals with persistent and consistent autistic tendencies as having undiagnosed Autism Spectrum Disorder. If we get 100 times more technical, if some people without a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder show persistent and consistent autistic tendencies, we in a technical, in a subclinical way cannot call them average, because being normal means not displaying or characterized by autistic or other neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior.


I hate us vs them mentality because if you are concerned that a person who is not diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder is showing persistent and consistent autistic tendencies, don’t invalidate their traits, because if it persists more, it can cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.


Don’t call people who show persistent and consistent autistic tendencies normal, just because they are not diagnosed with any neurodevelopmental or neurological disorder, because they don’t fit the definition of what Neurotypical means.

I think the term Neurotypical should be a little broader to include mental disorders, not just neurological or neurodevelopmental disorders.


My new definition of what neurotypical means:


A person that is neurologically developed and does not show any symptoms of one or (more) mental disorders or neurological or developmental disorders, but if a neurologically developed person starts to show any symptoms of one or (more) mental disorders or neurological disorders, a person cannot be neurotypical anymore



Citation:


What does Neurotypical mean?



My website about my own research and study:







References: (With some citations)


1) Even ‘baby sibs’ without autism show delays in first year (Citations)

2) The Broader Autism Phenotype in Infancy: When Does It Emerge? (Citations)

3) Criteria For Autism Spectrum Disorder Should Include BAP (By me)

4) Autism diagnostic criteria (Citations)

5) Broad autism phenotype: theory of mind and empathy skills in unaffected siblings of children with autism spectrum disorder (Citations)

6)What Is the Broad Autism Phenotype? (Citations)

7) Question If Broad Autism Phenotype Should Be A Diagnosis (By me)

8) Question About PDD-NOS (By me)

9) (BAP) Broad Autism Phenotype (Citations)

10) Broader Autism Phenotype (Citations)

11) Arguments To Make Diagnostic Criteria For ASD More Broad (By me)

12) Does Broader Autism Phenotype Fall Under PDD-NOS? (Citations)

13) The Broader Amish Autism Phenotype Vs. The Autistic Matrix (Citations)

14) Does Broader Autism Phenotype Fall Under PDD-NOS? (Citations)
 

Oren Franz

Well-Known Member
The alternative diagnostic criteria for Schizotypal Personality Disorder look very similar to Autism Spectrum Disorder.



A. Moderate or greater impairment in personality functioning,

manifested by characteristic difficulties in two or more of the

following four areas:



1. Identity: Confused boundaries between self and others;

distorted self-concept; emotional expression often not

congruent with context or internal experience.



2. Self-direction: Unrealistic or incoherent goals; no clear

set of internal standards.



3. Empathy: Pronounced difficulty understanding impact of

own behaviors on others; frequent misinterpretations of

others’ motivations and behaviors.


4. Intimacy: Marked impairments in developing close

relationships, associated with mistrust and anxiety.


B. Four or more of the following six pathological personality

traits:


1. Cognitive and perceptual dysregulation (an aspect of

Psychoticism): Odd or unusual thought processes;

vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or

stereotyped thought or speech; odd sensations in various

sensory modalities.


2. Unusual beliefs and experiences (an aspect of

Psychoticism): Thought content and views of reality that

are viewed by others as bizarre or idiosyncratic; unusual

experiences of reality.


3. Eccentricity (an aspect of Psychoticism): Odd, unusual,

or bizarre behavior or appearance; saying unusual or

inappropriate things.


4. Restricted affectivity (an aspect of Detachment): Little

reaction to emotionally arousing situations; constricted

emotional experience and expression; indifference or

coldness


5. Withdrawal (an aspect of Detachment): Preference for

being alone to being with others; reticence in social

situations; avoidance of social contacts and activity; lack

of initiation of social contact.


6. Suspiciousness (an aspect of Detachment):



Expectations of—and heightened sensitivity to—signs of

interpersonal ill-intent or harm; doubts about loyalty and

fidelity of others; feelings of persecution.




Some of the symptoms of Schizotypal Personality Disorder look like late detected form of Autism Spectrum Disorder:



1) Confused boundaries between self and others;

distorted self-concept; emotional expression often not

congruent with context or internal experience.



2) Pronounced difficulty understanding impact of

own behaviors on others; frequent misinterpretations of

others’ motivations and behaviors.



3) Odd or unusual thought processes;

vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or

stereotyped thought or speech; odd sensations in various

sensory modalities.



4) Odd, unusual, or bizarre behavior or appearance; saying unusual or

inappropriate things.



The new diagnostic criteria for Schizotypal Personality Disorder look too similar to Autism Spectrum Disorder and it is poorly defined.

I think that Schizotypal Personality Disorder is on the border between Autism Spectrum Disorder, Schizophrenia Spectrum and Other Psychotic Disorders. I think that in reality, Schizotypal Personality Disorder is just a late detected form of Autism Spectrum Disorder.





If you still have trouble with these symptoms, you have a neurodevelopmental disorder, you were like that your whole life, from the very beginning, it was not noticed until adulthood though:



1) Pronounced difficulty understanding impact of

own behaviors on others; frequent misinterpretations of

others’ motivations and behaviors.



2) Confused boundaries between self and others;

distorted self-concept; emotional expression often not

congruent with context or internal experience.



3) Odd or unusual thought processes;

vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or

stereotyped thought or speech; odd sensations in various

sensory modalities.


4) Odd, unusual, or bizarre behavior or appearance; saying unusual or

inappropriate things.



Personality Disorders are poorly defined because those personality disorders look like neurodevelopmental disorders and it makes no sense at all.
 
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