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Question about hidden and severe delusion of guilt and police officers.

Oz67

Well-Known Member
Why is it sometimes very obvious to some police officers that I have severe delusions of guilt, even though I speak in a normal way and function well and don't appear that odd?
 
How do you know that it's very obvious to some police officers?

What do they do or say that gives you that idea?
 
And if they do, it sounds rather like profiling to me. Their discrimination, not your possible culpability in any wrong doing. Feeling guilty isn't a crime, however some people like the simplicity of thinking so. Shallow minds.

But then the police are not there to be fair, they are there to enforce a rulers laws.
A statistic I read about in the UK was if you are autistic, you may be about 10 times more likely to wrongly end up in prison. I have visions of trying to persuade a jury from the witness box who are looking for genuine emotional response, not cold facts and details.
 
How do you know that it's very obvious to some police officers?

What do they do or say that gives you that idea?

My delusional system seeps out in five minutes or makes strange facial or body languages.
 
And if they do, it sounds rather like profiling to me. Their discrimination, not your possible culpability in any wrong doing. Feeling guilty isn't a crime, however some people like the simplicity of thinking so. Shallow minds.

But then the police are not there to be fair, they are there to enforce a rulers laws.
A statistic I read about in the UK was if you are autistic, you may be about 10 times more likely to wrongly end up in prison. I have visions of trying to persuade a jury from the witness box who are looking for genuine emotional response, not cold facts and details.

That makes even more sense.
 
My delusional system seeps out in five minutes or makes strange facial or body languages.
OK, but what I was asking about was the question you posed in Post#1.

You said "Why is it sometimes very obvious to some police officers that I have severe delusions of guilt, even though I speak in a normal way and function well and don't appear that odd?"

Making strange facial expression and body movements
as an expression of anxiety
would be a tip off to police observing you. It could translate as *might be up to something.*
 
Why is it sometimes very obvious to some police officers that I have severe delusions of guilt, even though I speak in a normal way and function well and don't appear that odd?

First and foremost, consider two things:

1) Their experience over time as a police officer on a beat.
2) Their ability as both formally trained and having a "sixth-sense" as natural observers.

Not every police officer attains such abilities, but some indeed do. And that in more sophisticated screening processes their employers may quickly identify such traits or possibilities.

Of course also part of this equation would involve those police officers who claim to have such abilities, but who in reality probably don't.

Having close family members in federal law enforcement gave me a unique look at two of them, who were both brothers yet had very different personalities relative to their job.

I also got a unique (and disturbing) look at future policemen based on having to attend a course in police-community relations just to fulfill a very odd college requirement at the time. Which gave me a little insight into some of the people entering law enforcement who really had no business considering as such. Often the sort who totally resented having to operate with the skills of a social worker or psychologist. Oh my...

Leaving you to ponder one thing. Just because they project that they think they know something about you may not be true. In the worst cases it may amount to professional bravado and little else. On other occasions they may turn out to seem almost clairvoyant. The ones to be careful of the most.

And above all, in the eyes of law enforcement, there are telltale signs of people who "look" guilty. Something particularly problematic for any number of us on the spectrum of autism. All of which remind me why I got a very stern lecture from my parents about having to look at people in the eye.
 
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Why is it sometimes very obvious to some police officers that I have severe delusions of guilt, even though I speak in a normal way and function well and don't appear that odd?
Oh, the number one reason is probably sketchy eye contact. This key feature of many autistic people signals "deceptive and evasive" to people trained to look for things like that. You may find via search a lecture I listened to years ago wherein an FBI agent described the eye movements he looked for when assessing a subject's truthfulness. Most autistic people would instantly flunk that screen, and if the interviewer or police officer isn't trained in interviewing autistic subjects you'll be put in the "dishonest" bin immediately.
 
Oh, the number one reason is probably sketchy eye contact. This key feature of many autistic people signals "deceptive and evasive" to people trained to look for things like that. You may find via search a lecture I listened to years ago wherein an FBI agent described the eye movements he looked for when assessing a subject's truthfulness. Most autistic people would instantly flunk that screen, and if the interviewer or police officer isn't trained in interviewing autistic subjects you'll be put in the "dishonest" bin immediately.

It does make me wonder about the degree of training given to police officers in the city I reside in. They do have a formal training regimen in dealing with autistic citizens, but to what degree is anyone's guess. And there always are those officers who inherently resent such training seeing themselves as strictly enforcers and not social workers.

One of my relatives in federal law enforcement was an FBI agent. A somewhat famous one at that. His brother (my grandfather) was a US Treasury agent for the alcohol-tax-unit. Better known as a "revenuer". One had finely honed interrogation skills working in cointel and domestic terrorism, the other simply shot you dead if you resisted arrest as a bootlegger.

No joke, but in much earlier times law enforcement was quite different.

Reminds me of some of the last words George Kelly Barnes (the original "Machine Gun Kelly") said as a free man. -"Don't shoot.....G-Men. DON'T SHOOT G-MEN!"
 
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Training and quality of recruitment can vary wildly depending where you are. Some good one's will indeed pick up on what may seem shifty behaviour, but know how to question properly to quickly to determine there's nothing to follow up on, while others use their untrained intuition, and may even be (badly) trained to do so, but lack the skills to determine the reality, and act on their pre-formed prejudices.

A few basic rules can help to some degree, but not in an ideal way - i.e., awareness of the worst behaviours such as trying to avoid police when they are spotted - something they look for and is pretty triggering for them! I sometimes deliberately walk as close as I can as casually as I can just to show I've nothing to fear having done nothing wrong (and making sure my little bag of greenery is safely down my pants! 😄).

Many of them also have to deal with people who also behave in odd and unusual ways, so if an experienced cop they'll often take things with a pinch of salt.
And some will just be down right unpleasant because their other half bawled them out that morning. Policing can be an ideal job for a low achieving bully in some places that let those people in.
And police are also just people (amazingly enough! 😉).

Also, it's so easy to read your own discomfort into their assessment of you, when in reality they're just bored, or overworked, or had a horrible shift, and they are also often used to being disliked by some communities, and respond accordingly with an aura of slight menace.
(or in London, Brixton back in the day, not so slight at all! Ah! the nostalgia! Those days you really did have to run occasionally! Even if not afro-caribbean!).
 
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Training and quality of recruitment can vary wildly depending where you are.

That was one of the very first things our instructor (A former Chief of Police) discussed with us in a police-community relations class.

In some places it's very much a formal profession. In others, it's still just a job with not as many prerequisites as the public might think.
 
Sadly the uk has not lived up to the promise of better policing. Some areas are much better, but places like London have a deeply discriminatory and corrupted culture in the force, so imbedded it's outlasted many decades of outrageous behaviour and opprobrium, headed by CC's who care about image, not behaviour or even actual good policing.
Very sad as most cops are there for sound social reasons, but the few pollute the service and make many others fall in to bad habits (to put it nicely) or be punished by their own.
 
Very sad as most cops are there for sound social reasons, but the few pollute the service and make many others fall in to bad habits (to put it nicely) or be punished by their own.
That was the most significant memory I carried away from taking that one criminal justice class. And how horrified I was to see certain personalities who openly stated they wanted to become police officers to lawfully dominate and intimidate people.

I always remember one of them, a young man who arrogantly told our instructor that he felt that "Police should be civil but not courteous", a line right of out of a Joseph Wambaugh novel and film, "The New Centurions".

Whereupon our instructors first response was to roll his eyes at the kid. But then after all, the class was a sincere examination of the complexities of police-community relations.
 
an FBI agent described the eye movements he looked for when assessing a subject's truthfulness.
Take these things with a very large pinch, nay, shovel of salt!
Much of these popular notions have now been assigned to the bin by the more progressive and effective agencies.
From my (not extensive) knowledge, the good ones rely much on basic questions carefully cross referenced for accuracy and consistency etc.

There can be so many reasons someone appears to be lying - they may feel guilty about something not even illegal and unrelated - they may be worried about being caught out by their partner about having an affair and will lie to police just because of that. And so many other examples of why eye movement (and other body language) is a poor indicator. It may mean something, but not necessarily guilt of a crime.
Even so called lie detectors are only really stress detectors. TV and films lie to us constantly because it's much more entertaining than reality. Hence the word 'fiction'.
 
Even so called lie detectors are only really stress detectors. TV and films lie to us constantly because it's much more entertaining than reality. Hence the word 'fiction'.

When I think of such issues, I think of the name "Aldrich Ames". A career CIA agent at Langley VA who was passing along classified material for cash to employees of the Russian Embassy just across the Potomac River. A man who had the ability to evade the most formal of polygraph examinations.

Yet he was so foolish as to drive his new Jaguar to work, sporting the most expensive clothing. It wasn't the polygraphs that got him caught. But he did earn a life-without-parole sentence for espionage.
 
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I always try to counteract my natural autistic behaviors with being very kind and apologetic to the cops who pull me over. I always have my license in hand and start out with "Sorry about that, officer. I'm stupid." I've been pulled over three times since I've moved to Siskiyou County, and gotten off every time. If you can be as nice and apologetic as possible some cops will overlook stuff like eye movements.

I also know where the local cops like to hide and hunt for prey-the industrial area along Oberlin Road (been caught speeding on this one, but sweet talked my way out of it), the 11th Street speed zone in Montague, and on Interstate 5 there's always one at the bottom of Anderson Grade on the southbound side because people get distracted going down the steep grade and inevitably end up doing 90mph by the time they get to the bridge, so the highway patrol hides there.

During tourist season they haunt Copco Road between Hornbrook and Klamathon and look for signs that you're a tourist. On the Oregon side the area on 5 between the state line and the Mt. Ashland exit 6 miles north has a limit of 55 so it's a big money minter for the Oregon State Police. (I saw some dummy in a muscle car with California temp plates do 75 or so right in front of a OSP. Duh!)

If you are cognizant of areas where cops would like to hide it's possible to avoid them much of the time. Steep roads, speed zones, places with lots of dead end driveways for them to hide.
 
Yet he was so foolish as to drive his new Jaguar to work, sporting the most expensive clothing. It wasn't the polygraphs that got him caught. But he did earn a life-without-parole sentence for espionage.
And so it seems is so often the case. the movies full of unbelievably clever serial killers and spies and suchlike who weave a web of deception no-one could possibly ever penetrate ... (and on and on)

But they mostly get caught being dumb, maybe stupidity, maybe just over confidence, maybe just the odd's ran out.

But the hyper clever rogue is mostly fantasy I think. But again, makes for great stories.
And what's real anymore anyway? In our false reality world, who's to say the stories aren't the truth and visa versa? 🤔🙄
 
And so it seems is so often the case. the movies full of unbelievably clever serial killers and spies and suchlike who weave a web of deception no-one could possibly ever penetrate ... (and on and on)

But they mostly get caught being dumb, maybe stupidity, maybe just over confidence, maybe just the odd's ran out.

But the hyper clever rogue is mostly fantasy I think. But again, makes for great stories.
And what's real anymore anyway? In our false reality world, who's to say the stories aren't the truth and visa versa? 🤔🙄

Robert Hanssen. The Director of Counter-Intelligence of the FBI. Who for years was doing the same thing that Aldrich Ames was doing.

Perhaps one of the strangest tales of espionage that went on far too long. But like all his historical peers, he too eventually was caught. But there's also the "Cambridge Five" as well. At least their motivation was ideological in nature. As was Doris Lessing as well.

Great stories...but at great cost.
 
I always try to counteract my natural autistic behaviors with being very kind and apologetic to the cops who pull me over.
Actually, that's a fine point! I had good manners drilled into me by my over bearing (and rather Victorian in attitude) parents, and whatever the reason, I grew up always trying to treat people politely and with respect, not just because of fear of a bad reaction, but also guilt at mistreating someone unfairly, and cops have always been in that category too like most people. Politeness and respect to a cop who gets swore at, at the drop of a hat just for being what they are, can indeed make a big difference. Plain courtesy and cooperation can go a long way.
 
Robert Hanssen. The Director of Counter-Intelligence of the FBI. Who for years was doing the same thing that Aldrich Ames was doing.

Perhaps one of the strangest tales of espionage that went on far too long. But like all his historical peers, he too eventually was caught. But there's also the "Cambridge Five" as well. At least their motivation was ideological in nature. As was Doris Lessing as well.

Great stories...but at great cost.
Ah yes, and Blunt never got pulled in with the others for a very long time! It's amazing what a private school education can do for you! 😁
"He couldn't possibly be a mole, he's British y'know, upper lip and all that, eh what? 🧐"

Though I have to admit...
one - spying is just an extension of diplomacy and politics.
two - the more I think about these things the more I believe my natural belief in the 'rightness' of the western capitalist culture is a false premise.
I grew up in the propaganda of the West, Hollywood style with a touch of British 'chips with everything' and always accepted the views that we were always in the right, and 'they' were always the 'evil' ones.

But the more I've learned about the awful stuff the West has perpetrated on others, downright evil stuff no excuses (beyond the usual human game), I can start to appreciate how the 'enemies' of the West have actually been dealt some pretty bad damage by us, and have a right to feel aggrieved. And how often their attempts to shake off the yoke of imperialism and resource theft have been painted as outrageous atrocity, the more I find our own rhetoric increasingly distasteful. We are no better than those we call our enemies, maybe much worse.
 
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