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Planned Obsolescence is Getting Annoying

Discussion in 'Computers, Science & Technology' started by Sapphire K, Mar 2, 2021.

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  1. Sapphire K

    Sapphire K Autistic Pansexual Enby! (they/them) V.I.P Member

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    Note: This was copy and pasted from a rant I did on Discord (with stuff added to it), so ignore any weird formatting.

    I hate this fact, but many computer manufacturers design their products to die within a certain time frame. And that time frame is getting shorter. ESPECIALLY APPLE FOR SOME REASON!!! Seriously. It isn't hard to tell that, despite being made of inexpensive material, that apple products are overpriced considering their build quality (which is getting lower).
    One of Apple's more recent Macbook models didn't even have the CPU heat sink attached to the fan in any way, leaving the CPU to roast itself to death. That should be illegal. Having a proper cooling system in any computer should be a legal requirement for any manufacturer to follow. Because without a proper cooling system, the CPU is just left to die from overheating. Plus apple is unnecessarily picky about which repair shops get their schematics and who gets their parts (which might be fixed soon by Right-to-Repair laws), leaving many repair shops that aren't Apple's own repair shops to refuse customers who bring in any kind of Apple product, making most repair shops to exclusively repair Linux and Windows devices.

    I keep on hearing things from older people saying that old mobile phones like the Nokia can take, like thousands of hits before any considerable damage occurs, and how newer phones are incredibly squishy. Drop an old Nokia brick from, like, 50 feet, and it survives just fine with maybe only a few scuff marks. Drop an iPhone without a case from the same height, it shatters and dies. The old Nokias have been known to being burnt so much that they actually appear crispy and brown and still manage to work perfectly fine. I think I would have to shoot a Nokia with a tank cannon in order to completely break it in the quickest way possible.

    My DS Lite was also pretty tanky. Even what was considered the weakest point (the hinge) was ultra durable. Now I am scared of ever dropping my New Nintendo 3DS that I keep it home most of the time unless I know I am going to be in the car/in a waiting room for a while. My DS Lite worked even when the hinges didn't lock properly and was all floppy. For the New Nintendo 3DS, that would mean the top screen, or even the entire system, will not work. The original Gameboy was known for working on the summit of the tallest mountains, despite extreme cold, and it survived way longer than the other electronic equipment that was taken up. And the OG Gameboy also survived being burnt till crispy. There was even a case where a Gameboy survived a nuclear blast, as well.

    And now manufacturers are starting to future-proof their devices left, which, over time, a user might face more and more incompatibility issues due to their device not being supported by software updates anymore, which also leaves them vulnerable to cyber attacks.

    I feel like their should be laws for durability and longevity standards when it comes to computers and other similar devices. The reason why these devices are getting less durable and dying quicker is because their manufacturers are designing the devices to do so in order to make more and more money. However, that will negatively impact most consumers, so I am pretty sure laws, or at least an industry-run board, should be used to prevent that in order for it not to get so out of control.
     
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  2. Ken

    Ken Well-Known Member

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    I share your rant, Joshua. You do not have an idle or frivolous rant! I am am a retired career electronics design engineer that has been around long enough to see the introduction of planned obsolescence and its proliferation. I mostly design electronics for commercial equipment used in factories, medical, aviation, etc. Equipment that one would expect long-life and low maintenance to be highly desired.

    On one occasion I had an argument with a client regarding the reliability of a power supply. The client changed some of the components from my design. I explained that I could not agree with the changes because it would be unreliable with a short lifespan. I thought the customer made the changes due to component costs, but he pointed out that the unreliability and short lifespan was the desire. I was flabbergasted. This is a big expensive commercial machine. It is not a throw-away personal item. The customer went on to explain that they also sell service on the machines and since it is not a throw-away, there will be lots of money to make on service.

    I was in a foul mood the rest of the day (actually longer). I take pride in my design work. I want my designs to work flawlessly and for a very long time - not just years, but decades. While the customer may be happy, I felt violated.

    The last few years, before my retirement, was very stressful as planned obsolescence became rampant. Engineering just wasn't fun anymore.

    I am proud to say, however that there were a few clients that still want sound, long-life designs. I am still friends with some of those clients. Sorry, none of them make computers!
     
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  3. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    wont-somebody-please-think-about-the-billionaires.jpg


    I think that pretty much sums up what generally happens if anyone tries to take that idea into consideration. Believe me, the people that make all those laws are not on the side of the consumer.

    Ever heard of Lois Rossman? You might want to check out his channel if you havent. The guy's been doing battle with Apple for a loooooooong time now. Talks a lot about repairing Apple products that are supposedly "beyond repair" according to that snotwad of a company.

    I will say though, if the internet is any indication, people are getting more and more fed up with the ultra-wealthy bozos that cause all this trouble. Eventually, something IS going to snap. Or, more likely, someONE is going to snap. Wont be pretty.



    Beyond all of that, the best thing to do is to simply not buy, well, junk. I used to use iPads for instance, but at a certain point they started changing... the updates suddenly started making them slower and slower. My current one is in a state of permanent lockdown, AKA I havent allowed the accursed thing to update even once for a couple of years now. Ever since that point when they went "Hey, all those 32-bit apps wont work anymore because [insert excuses here], oh by the way be sure to check out the app store and watch 5 billion ads so that you can replace all those good games you lost with terrible games full of MTX".... yeah, didnt let that happen. And I tell ya, once that thing dies, it's not being replaced. It seems highly illogical to me to buy another Apple product when the previous one was awful.

    Find out which products are actually good, and which ones blow goat chunks. And then buy the good ones.

    Some of the problem definitely comes from people just never doing the bloody research, and instead tending to just buy whatever is popular, or whatever the hivemind has decided is the cool kids' toy of the day. Always do the research and dont listen to the hivemind.


    I'll be totally honest here, I woulda punched the guy outright. No hesitation, just an abrupt swing. If you managed to avoid doing that, you have far more self control than I do, that's for sure.
     
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  4. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Yes I ve noticed this effect in many items. I have broken my current phone screen 3 times, despite never having broken one before. Yes I have always dropped them, but they were stronger.

    I remember in my childhood, so, 1960s , we had a blue cylinder vacuum cleaner. And we still had it in the 70s. My mum still had it after my parents divorced in the 80s.

    And the second hand tumble dryer she bought while still with my dad, only got replaced a couple of years ago!

    My sister gave me a microwave when she replaced it with a newer one, and it was previously owned in the late 80s I think by her mother in law. I used it up til a couple of years ago. All well functioning items. Same with gas central heating boilers. They didn't only last a few years. It's a crime against the environment too, this throwaway culture.
     
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  5. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    I'm just grateful to have lived in an earlier era where they once actually made things to last at a reasonable price. Before the 80s when bean counters discovered downsizing to be profitable even if a company was in doing well at the time.

    Now it's all about greed and "repeat customers". Getting them any way as fast as you can. :rolleyes:

    Interviewer: So, did you ever consider going back to your old line of work?

    Printer Ink Tycoon: Nope. I used to sell dope in South Central. This is safer and even more profitable.

    Interviewer: No kidding!

    Sonny Corleone: "There's a lot of money in that printer ink, Pop." :eek:
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  6. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Thermal dynamics is the most fundamental reason I have never owned a laptop computer. They're inherently designed to fail given operating at hotter temperatures without sufficient airflow. And if heat and time don't do your laptop in, most likely software and operating systems designers will succeed in making your computer either too slow or downright inoperable to continue using it. It's all by design.

    Pathetic to hear industry spokespeople seriously give the average lifetime of a laptop computer as between three and five years. Though while my present desktop system I built nearly eight years ago runs great, at some point I suspect Microsoft will quietly deliver a routine OS update that may do this computer in.

    Leaving me with yet another computer that runs fine, but someone in the business heard about it and decided that's unacceptable in this market. So yeah, I'm starting to accrue a components list to build a new one. :oops:

    I used to keep my Windows 3.1 computer I built in the closet, where each year I'd take it out and run it. For about five minutes before the nostalgia wore off. Eventually I just tossed it out as it was taking up too much space! But it still ran superbly... :rolleyes:

    When I get old enough where I can no longer build my next computer, I suppose then I will truly be obsolescent myself! Something to look forward to. Not. :mad:
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  7. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    This is why I CONSTANTLY advise people NOT to get a laptop unless they very specifically need it for constant travelling use. PARTICULARLY if they are gamers.

    Nobody ever listens to me. But the end results are always the same. A MORE expensive machine than a desktop, which can do LESS, and lasts for far less time. And is dramatically easier to break. Seriously I dont know why it's so hard to convince people that a desktop is better when travel isnt constant (or, in many cases, when they dont travel at all).

    Godawful machines. All of them. I've owned the accursed things for travel use but my desktop PC is always the main one. Which is good because the laptops typically start to go bad within a couple of months.

    Since I dont even want the stupid things in the first place, I wait until they're 100% dead before reluctantly getting a new one.

    Not even once... not ONCE... have I ever seen a laptop that just works right.
     
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  8. Major Tom

    Major Tom Searching for ground control... V.I.P Member

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    I can agree with this. Being a throwaway culture is very wasteful in my opinion.
     
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  9. Sherlock77

    Sherlock77 Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I've never owned a laptop, except for many years ago

    A few years ago I had a computer custombuilt for me through a local computer store, a desktop unit with a tower drive, I spent $1K on it, it was built with large sized digital photo files in mind (as an avid photographer) plus extra large storage capacity

    I'm still using it five years later and it basically works fine
     
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  10. SusanLR

    SusanLR Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I agree the desktop PC is far superior.
    Owned two laptops and they aren't comfortable to use, plus they crapped out in no time.
    I'll never buy another unless somehow I'm forced into it.

    I had one of those huge NEC pc's refurbished from an office back in the '80s and it lasted like
    the Energizer Bunny. Nice clarity too.
    I'm so reluctant to change, I haven't given into Window's upgrades and still use Windows 7.
    The PC is 9 yrs. old and I'll use it until it's beyond repair.
     
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  11. Slyfox

    Slyfox Well-Known Member

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    apple products are better made then others. the macbook air doesn't have a fan cause it doesn't need one. given the m1 outpreforms most if not all intel's and others chips it doesn't seem over priced. I am all apple now except for my pc. apple stuff just last forever. my ipod is still running as are all my phones and ipads. non of the andriod phones or tablets I got lasted more then year or too. mean andriod phones get at most 3 years and only if you get a google one otherwise you only get at most 2 years of updates. so you buy a phone and 2 years later it can't run new software, can't get secuirty updates. mind you alot get less then 2 years. thats planned obsolescence. apple supports for stuff for 7 years. I just got a macbook and I know people who have old ones still useable after years. my 2 year old windows laptop battery died in less then year. around 1 year and 6 months its so slow that It takes 10 minutes to boot up and be sort of usable but takes minutes to do any action. It's a $700 laptop that lasted 6months to year and half. crazy/ but everyone I know who has a macbook, still has it running just fine maybe with less battery life.
     
  12. Sapphire K

    Sapphire K Autistic Pansexual Enby! (they/them) V.I.P Member

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    False: every computer needs a oroper cooling system. If the CPU somehow doesn't actually need a fan, it is guaranteed that the CPU is extremely underpowered to the point that it probably will be good only for browsing the web, and not much else. My Raspberry Pi 3 comes to mind. All I needed to do for the cooling system in that was put the included heat syncs onto the tiny CPU and GPU that it has. Another thing that comes into mind are mobile devices, such as a cellphone, tablet, or one of Nintendo's portable gaming systems (or even the PSP or PSVita for that matter). They tend to have hardware that is much less powerful than a laptop or desktop CPU/GPU, so they don't overheat as easily.

    I also hate Chromebooks. You can only get updates for a few years after your purchase, and that is it.
     
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  13. Sapphire K

    Sapphire K Autistic Pansexual Enby! (they/them) V.I.P Member

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    I am pretty sure lawmakers need to think of consumers rather than billionaires. At least some sort of independent industry board will do. You know, ones that rate devices and puts labels on the boxes of devices.
     
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  14. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    They SHOULD, yes, but they wont. Why wont they? Because they want to BE the billionaires, so they'll take the money and then they'll shut the heck up, like a bunch of good little puppets.

    Heck, even ratings boards can go bad. Think of the ESRB. Started out with good intentions. Now it mostly works in the interests of the Big Guys, making it easier for them to implement their horrid schemes. I mean, some of those companies are selling games full of REAL GAMBLING to freaking CHILDREN. And they fully know it. But they'll let them do it and they will be VERY minimal about what they put on the box (if they put anything on at all) so that it can keep going as easily as possible. Because they, too, like money. The useless jerks.

    Where's Skynet when you need it? Bah.
     
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  15. Slyfox

    Slyfox Well-Known Member

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    Iphones, ipads, etc don't have fans. they move the heat throw their chassis and air cool. that is the same way the macbook air works. if it gets too hot it reduces preformance to 80% which still outperforms most integrated graphics computers. Unless you're really pushing it you'll never see that happen. the fan on the macbook pros almost never comes on, mine will probably never be used as I'm not editing 8k videos on it. now is the m1 being maxed out like intel chips have to be no, but apparently even on the reduced power to keep heat down they still outperforming most other laptops that don't have dedicated gpu. the m1x will be a killer from sounds of it. thats the benefit from 5nm cpu vs intels 14nm cpu. thats why heat performance on conolses get better as the cpu gets smaller. intel gets hot because its a 14nm chip pushed past its limit while most everyone else has moved on to 10nm,9nm,8nm, and most are on 7nm. now apple is doing 5nm. you can look at the preformance test results the m1 is killing all its competitors while being far cooler. you don't even need the macbook pro to video edit. lot of editors returned thir pro and kept the air. I wanted the touchbar, I love it. the m1 is state of art cpu. its the smallest nm cpu I think. amd does 7nm. you're thinking intel logic with can't be used on the m1 or even amd stuff.
    the 5nm m1 simplly doesn't get very hot unless you editing 8k video or doing multiple performance applications in which the intel ones are way hotter. my 14nm 10900k needs water cooling. a 5nm 10900k would probably not need much more then heat sink to preform the same. though intel would crank it up and the performance would be amazing. so to summarize apple is just way ahead of the curve, so you get amazing performance to heat ratio.
     
  16. Slyfox

    Slyfox Well-Known Member

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    they just get corrupted too. All you'd be doing is shifting who the companies bribe. As long as humans value money and are greedy this will always happen. I don't see humans changing.
     
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  17. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting to see literally in time whether or not Apple's M1 chip lives up to the hype.

    It could potentially inaugurate a new era in portable computing in creating a powerful CPU that can efficiently operate on only 10 watts. Funny to recall that my 386 and 486 computers had only a very modest heatsink for the cpu. Only the power supply had a fan with most of the noise coming from an IDE hard drive.

    New Mac Teardowns Show Apple's M1 Engineering Under the Hood - ExtremeTech
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  18. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    Ehhh... to be honest I dont think it's quite that simple.

    And even if Apple is ahead of the curve on some aspects (which is highly debatable for reasons I wont go into right now, because feh), they're so insanely far BEHIND it on others as to be just plain silly.

    1. They are embarrassingly fragile. And I really do mean "embarrassing". Any truly self respecting craftsman that put out something THAT BAD would end up merely hanging his head in shame for having created such a bloody stupid travesty. I actually dropped an iPad once, before it had gotten a cover put on it. It exploded. It didnt crack, didnt dent, it EXPLODED. It fell like, a whole three feet, wow. The single weakest thing I've ever owned in terms of structure, period. It's pathetic. I've also dropped laptops (never on purpose, I'm just a klutz, things I own are GOING to take some punishment at random intervals), and while they can be damaged from it, they typically survive the fall and continue to mostly function. Of course, drop them AGAIN and that might change... but it might not. Macs might be a bit different, but... knowing Apple, I rather suspect that they would indeed prove structurally weaker than other laptops if tested.

    2. Apple holds an absolute iron grip over everything, so they can maximize their profits. I dont know if you're into gaming at all, but if you are, then you already know that Apple devices of ANY type are the lowest of the low when it comes to gaming. For their mobile devices, the games on them are considered to be very literal jokes by pretty much the entire gaming community. When it comes to Macs and such, they're considered basically useless to almost all developers; many devs will happily port their games to Linux, but almost none will even CONSIDER porting to any form of Mac. Ever. No matter what is offered. And particularly with mobile, the (rather bad) games that ARE on there are dangerous, predatory things. And I mean "dangerous" literally. They prey on addiction... that's what they're designed to do. Apple has absolute control over the App Store... and they ABSOLUTELY allow such insidious programs on their platform. To the point where they appear in extreme numbers. Even old-school Nintendo, of the NES days, wasnt this godawful with their level of control. They had restrictions, sure, but they also had some freaking dignity.

    And really... that last bit speaks into the biggest problem. Apple is a TERRIBLE company. At this point, even if my current iPad hadnt been reduced to a useless hunk of garbage by its own freaking updates, I would never, EVER consider giving that group of slimeballs another freaking penny. Even if it means missing out on stuff. I know there are plenty of other companies that are darned bad... but few measure up to Apple.

    And honestly my favorite example of it is that structural weakness I mentioned. Those cases you put on them? Which take a device that is fragile as a blob of melting snow, and completely protects it? They COULD just build that into the design. They 100% could, and we all know it. Or, they could create the same cases seperately, but have the devices pre-fitted with them, so they're already protected when you buy them. The cases are cheap... it wouldnt increase the price much. But they dont want do that.... because it means less profit. More chance of devices breaking BEFORE the consumer can cover them = more chance of getting money for a replacement that much sooner.


    Honestly I could go on, and on, and on, and on.

    Not that Apple is the only offender, mind you. If you think THIS rant is bad, you should hear my Microsoft rant. That's like, many pages long, and filled with the hatred of the ages.

    That's enough though. Too much rambling on this subject gets me all irritated. Gotta stop here. Bah.

    I'm just glad I have a PC, that's all I'll say.
     
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  19. Slyfox

    Slyfox Well-Known Member

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    seems they working on a dedicated graphics card too. All I know is so far other then the swap issue, this macbook is super fast and great. It's way more powerful than I need.
     
  20. Slyfox

    Slyfox Well-Known Member

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    all apples products are made of metal which is stronger and more durable then plastic. I don't drop my stuff, but my sister has dropped her phone and ipads few times with no damage. I did drop my last ipod and other than some scratches on the shell from hitting the concrete from 5 feet up, its fine. my last adnriod phone would have the back fly off and battery go flying anytime it dropped even few inches. only apple product I had mess up was ipad I put all 280pounds of me on and bent it some. probably would have broke a plastic tablet. would you rather drive in a plastic are or a metal car?

    I didn't get this laptop to game on, but its more able to game then the laptop I did get for gaming. I've seen it said it is around a 1050ti. I don't care I didn't get it to game on. I have my suped up desktop for gaming. I will be saving to get a mac mini though and running it to a second monitor. that way all my gaming pc will be used for is gaming. won't have to worry about viruses and using up any of its power. that said I could play sims or rome 2 on this macbook. means age of empires would work too. I don't think Id want to play games on laptop anymore though. I have desktop, series x, ps5 and switch for playing games.

    lowest of low. mean It doesn't seem epic games thinks that. iphones and ipads outpreform better speced andriods. why cause ios only has to run on apple stuff. android has to work on $50 crap phones as well as $3000 phones. it can't be optimized for any of them. google has no control over what others do. apple's total control means a optimized OS that can better take full advantage of the cpu and gpu.

    I'm glad apple has control over their app store. google play has a lot of virus apps people download not knowing. I won't get any apps not on apples store. no thanks. the things you hate about apple is why people buy apple. apple is protecting our privacy while google will happily sell all your information to facbook and china.

    Apple is a fantastic company and I'll keep paying them thousands of dollars for their products and ecosystem. I plan to get a apple tv when they release the new one. all my apple stuff just works. its not complicated, it doesn't glitch out, it doesn't slow down, it doesn't stop getting security updates after a year. As long as this macbook last at least 3 years I'll happily save to buy another. If it last more then year it'll bet every single windows laptop I've owned(3) and all the ones my sisters owned(4). I'm going get new ipad this year too, not cause anythings wrong with the old one, I just want to get the new features. I've had/have iphone 5,5s,6,7,10s,12, ipad air2,pro9.7,mini, ipod 3,5, apple watch 1 and 5. all still run minus the ipod 3 which I accidentally had under my lapotp and melted the screen connection. My sister has had all the same and hers all still runs. how many people can say that about andriods? my last andriod tablet was a google nexus. I use it as a coster now. It lasted year or so before they stopped supporting it and the last update it had reduced it to a stall, its battery didn't last long(unlike apple, google doesn't have a battery replacement program) google got my money and didn't care, solution just buy another tablet from them and get another year then buy another. My friend uses a iphone 4 ,he got on release day, as his daily phone.

    go get a Samsung fold. mean it has a limited lifespan, plastic easily damaged screen that 1. can't have a protector, 2. you can pill it off on accident. its only $3000. forget about dropping it and you can't put a case on it either. galaxy edge. same problem. one drop and its dead and due to having screenon the edges no case allowed. Samsung mocks apple for removing headphone jack and charger. then next phone they release they do it too. one part of Samsung is stopping production of the lcd screens the other part of samsung needs to make their tvs. that would never happen with apple. Apple would never let one part of it screw over one of their other products. I'm rushing to get the new samsung tv cause after june, all panels will be made by some Chinese company. Talk about left hand hurting the right hand. I have no confidence in Samsungs ceo. Any good CEO would fire the head of Samsung display and tell them they going keep making the pannels for their tvs. google? they just canned stadia, add it to the long list of projects and products they drop support of. I'm glad I didn't pay for stadia and only bought one game. won't get that $10 back. If Android hadn't taken off they'd bailed on it too, still could. Apple will never bail on IOS.
    LG? They have such horrible faith in their phones they drop the price week after launch screwing over people who bought or preordered them. that leaves the chinese companies who will gladly use the phones and tv's to spy on you for their Government who owns them.

    what Laptop brands would you say are good? lenevo? I've had **** luck with Samsung, HP,Toshiba(darn HD drive never worked), Dell.

    alot of people wouldn't buy apple or samsung products if they had rubble frames. Most people use their phones bare. That's why LG,apple,samsung, sony, all put alot of work and money into design.