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On the history of gaming

Discussion in 'Obsessions and Interests' started by Mia, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. Mia

    Mia Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Often come across articles blaming gamers for a culture of violence in the world. The violence, the recreational time it takes to play games, the attitudes of gamers. Rarely have I come across anything that does not make me feel guilty about playing online games.
    I've been playing for a long time, and enjoy it as part of my day. I also feel little need to explain my love of gaming as it takes me away for awhile, and I don't have to think about anything else.

    This is part of a article from The Conversation, that gives some background on blaming individuals and groups for playing games:

    "...As far back as the Buddha’s own teachings, moral leaders were warning about addicting games and recreations including “throwing dice,” “Games with balls” and even “turning somersaults,” recommending the pious hold themselves “aloof from such games and recreations.”

    Then, as now, play was caught in society-wide discussions that really had nothing to do with gaming – and everything to do with keeping or creating an established moral order."

    So really the blaming of people for gaming seems all about power and control. What do you think?

    So now, I've of a mind to go outside and turn some somersaults as well.

    Games blamed for moral decline and addiction throughout history
    Balance of the article
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  2. Questella

    Questella Peace, Love and all that good stuff

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    Yeah


    I can't believe people are still claiming games for people being crazy, violent, outlandish. I thought they knocked that rhetoric off in the 2000s. :(
     
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  3. Streetwise

    Streetwise very cautious contributor V.I.P Member

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    from what I understand any game is just the physical manifestation of A particular type of human desire
     
  4. Isadoorian

    Isadoorian Well Known Chat Member, Welcomer of Newcomers V.I.P Member

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    Yep. People have been blaming video games for violent crimes and the like for years. Numerous studies have debunked that. Plus, it's just Old People being Old People, and most of the younger people that follow them/look up to them believe they're wise in what they do, when the same people they follow/look up to can't use a touch screen or computer properly. Though there are Old People who are a lot more reasonable and sensible, overall nicer, than the kind mentioned.

    They like blaming things on other things or making up things because they'll seem scarier to those who don't know any better. (i.g. The Dungeons & Dragons Scare of the 70s and 80s: "Oh no! Timmy's gonna join a Cult, in which he'll summon Demons and even be lead down a path of perpetual darkness! All is lost for him!") and then of course, Modern Times, (i.g. 90s to Now: "Man to have played Popular First Person Shooter with Friends, one day creates chaos by killing many innocents in a shooting in which most certainly Mental Illness is not involved, no siree! Aforementioned Popular First Person Shooter to be of blame, not what's going on in his Mind!").

    Then, you've got people who think that the removal of violent video games from store fronts such as Walmart will help reduce violence. Oh gee goly Batman, almost as if there's still Music, TV Shows, and Movies, and other venues out there (i.g. MMA, Wrestling, etc.) that contain violence! They may as well ban the whole Entertainment Industry! /s

    I think I've blabbed for too long, so I'll finish this off with a meme.

    Violence is Introduced to Humanity (c. 1972)
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

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    Hey, Isadoorian, Pong was a fun game, in its day!

    I eschew formalized religion and formalized moralizing, personally. I find extremely violent video games unappealing, although I don't mind eating a dot or a ghost in Pac Man.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  6. Isadoorian

    Isadoorian Well Known Chat Member, Welcomer of Newcomers V.I.P Member

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    There's been countless studies done that debunk the "violent video games cause violence" theory. But of course, claiming they do is easier, and also because it causes fear mongering a lot easier.

    I've been playing violent video games since I was 8, I'm almost 24. Not once have I randomly decided to beat up someone or anything of the sort. And, honestly, the only time I'd do such a thing, is if it were to defend someone (such as a family member or friend) from an attacker.
     
  7. clg114

    clg114 Still crazy, after all these years. Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    Is it possible that violent video games affect NT young people in a very different way than they affect ND young people?
     
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  8. Isadoorian

    Isadoorian Well Known Chat Member, Welcomer of Newcomers V.I.P Member

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    I doubt it; the only truly logical thing really, that'd affect ones violent tendencies (that I remember has also been studied I believe), is their upbringing. Young kids, NT or not, tend to copy what they see around them. "monkey see, monkey do", as they say. .i.g. Dad beating Mom when she's not doing what she's told? This must be normal everywhere else.

    I also remember doing a Project in Psychology on Psychologist Albert Bandura and his Bobo Doll experiments. If I remember right, most kids who watched minor violence (cartoons on the TV in the room) did whack the bobo dolls around a small bit, others didn't.

    Bobo doll experiment - Wikipedia

    Bobo doll experiment - Wikipedia
     
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  9. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    First I want to start with a couple of quotes I saw some users posting on the Steam forums:

    User 1: The real problem that parts of society have with video games is that they feel entitled to your "lost productivity". All else is pretext.

    User 2: Yep, you either work yourself in a dead end job, or somehow you're an inferior human being. Never got the logic, why is suffering normal?

    User 1: Crab bucket effect. If one crab tries to escape the bucket, the others keep it in. If everyone is doing it, it must be right thing. Even if it's stupid.


    I thought those were very interesting. This also goes along with the concept of "contributing to society". Even if a given job isnt REALLY accomplishing anything. As someone who doesnt work, I've frequently been told "YOU NEED TO GET A JOB! CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY!!! BLERGITY HERRRRGH!!!"

    But here's the thing with that: I know, for a fact, that even taking a job such as a Walmart greeter would satisfy them. Know what a Walmart greeter does? Stand near the front door and repeat the words "Hello, welcome to Walmart" like a scarecrow with a broken record player shoved up it's butt. That's seriously it. They dont DO anything else, unless it's someone that is also tasked with security (rare).

    That's an utterly useless job. I mean, useful... sort of... for the person that has the job in that they get money. But "contributing to society?" Absurd. Hell, alot of customers find it outright annoying. And frankly, I think it's quite demeaning to those that have to perform said job.

    But "society" doesnt care. Because it was never about that. It was about following the herd mentality. Do what the hivemind commands. Do what everyone else does.


    But also, they see gaming as a useless hobby. I often, at this point, explain the benefits that I myself have gotten from all my years of gaming. 1: I am *fast*. Very... very fast. I can mentally process things at a seriously abnormal speed. 2: Reflexes are equally fast. 3: Very coordinated. 4. Really good at logic and problem solving.


    And that 4th one is particularly interesting: One problem with gaming as a whole, which hilariously is caused by industry leaders themselves (the blazing dolts) is that alot of non-gamers think that all games are OMG GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GOTTA SHOOT ALL TEH DUDEZ because that's what advertisements show them. That it's all brainless violence. Mindless stupidity.

    Here's something interesting though, just to illustrate a point:

    Hyper.jpg

    This is Hyperrogue. Rather than me explain it and make it even more confusing than it already is, this is taken from it's site:

    The twist is the unique, unusual geometry of the world: it is one of just few games which takes place on the hyperbolic plane. Witness a grid composed of hexagons and heptagons, straight lines which seem to be parallel, but then they diverge and never cross, triangles whose angles add up to less than 180 degrees, how extremely unlikely is it to reach the same place twice, and how the world seems to be rotated when you do return. All this matters for the gameplay. The game is inspired by the roguelike genre (although in a very minimalist way), works of M. C. Escher, and by puzzle games such as Deadly Rooms of Death.

    With more space than anything Euclidean. The game dynamically generates new parts of the world as you move. No previous understanding of hyperbolic geometry is required -- actually, playing HyperRogue is probably the best way to learn about this, much better and deeper than any mathematical formulas. It is virtually impossible to get back to a place where you have been before, unless you go back exactly the same way. Show your true mastery of hyperbolic navigation by finding the Orb of Yendor, Holy Grail, rescuing the Prince(ss)!

    HyperRogue has started as a small, weird technical experiment, but it turned out that hyperbolic geometry combined with basic roguelike rules makes for exceptionally great gameplay, even if you do not care about geometry! Further work improved the gameplay, but also turned HyperRogue into probably the most fully featured engine for truly non-Euclidean geometry in existence. Even if you do not care about roguelikes, roguelites and block puzzles, you can play the tutorial as an explorable explanation about hyperbolic geometry, use HyperRogue for research in applied hyperbolic geometry, or use the texture mode and vector graphics editor to create mathematical art. The possibilities are endless!


    This is a game that uses a sort of geometry that cant *really* be shown on a monitor (or on anything). What is seen there is a simplified representation of it. This sort of geometry cant actually exist in our world, and frankly, our brains arent meant to process this stuff. Even despite that this is a game, on a 2D screen, there are players that genuinely cant play this. I dont mean it's too hard for them. I mean they get motion sickness simply from watching the player roam around the world, as everything twists and warps in ways that go against all logic that they're used to. And that's just basic movement and scrolling! It gets even more complicated as each of the game's 70-ish lands offer entirely unique gameplay mechanics that utilize that geometry to it's fullest, each producing a unique and constantly changing puzzle as the game escalates in difficulty the more you do in each land. And sometimes the content from these places combine and interact with each other, making things even crazier. There is some deeply bizarre stuff here. I would have a very, very hard time explaining it.

    It is also one of my favorite games of all time. I have, I believe, about 300 hours in it. And yes, I'm really good at it.

    That's just the gameplay though! What it mentions about learning and experimenting with geometry? Holy heck is there ALOT of that. You can do so, so much with it, and you can get it to do some freaking crazy things. Users who understand this stuff far better than I do have come up with some amazing things. It gets players genuinely INTERESTED in learning about freaking geometry. Non-Euclidean geometry, no less.

    Is that the most complicated game out there? Ye gods, no. If you want another good example of "WTF am I even looking at", look up Dwarf Fortress. Good luck understanding what you're seeing there. That one might genuinely be THE most complicated game (and yes, I like that one too). Games like these, they really force the player to THINK and LEARN in order to get anywhere. Skills can be improved simply by playing them. And there are other games that go for other things. Some games for instance are more about calming the player, reducing anxiety, and just being a pleasant experience to unwind with. Some others (many VR things) could even have genuine therapeutic uses.

    But according to the media, creative, interesting games like this dont exist! And that's one of the big problems that gaming as a whole faces. Alot of people never get even the slightest hint of the incredible possibilities that gaming as a whole can offer.

    So, there, that's my thoughts on all this.

    For anyone that's really into gaming: The next time someone tries to shame you for playing games... just ignore them. Because all they're doing is showing A: how little they know, and B: how embedded in the Hivemind they are.

    There is so, so much more to it than what the general public thinks.

    There, I'm done, you can all go back to your homes now, nothing more to see here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  10. oregano

    oregano really wants a solar panel and a AGM battery

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    When a lot of older people think of "games" they think of simple kiddie-like games like Sims or the really pointlessly violent games like Halo and Call of Duty where the object is to rack up kills. The really complicated games like @Misery is describing that use very sophisticated mathematics in the game itself are somewhat more of niche games.

    On an amateur radio forum a guy posted about how his granddaughter was playing a video game in the living room while he was working on his electronics in a back room when the girl suddenly says "come here, grandpa, the game is making beeping noises".

    He goes into the living room and she says "the game is making beeping noises at me like the noises you make on your radio stuff". Turns out that the game was sending a five digit code in morse code (of all things!) that had to be decoded to open a door. Grandpa wrote down the five digit code, the girl entered it, and the door popped open. The guy didn't know what the game was called, unfortunately.

    Gaming is far more than Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 and Fallout 76, but boomers (and some Xers) don't realize it.

    As for "productivity", at least in the US this seems to mean that you are a wage slave making a handful of billionaires richer while you live on stale food from church food pantries. I think of the indigenous peoples in the Klamath River Canyons who are essentially self-sufficient, getting their food the same way they always have, yet white people in city skyscrapers seem to think that shuffling paper is more important than actually producing your own food without having to buy it at a supermarket. The city people have so much stress that they gobble happy pills in order to keep from going irrevocably insane, yet there are people who live off the land and love it. Anthropologists have observed that such maladies as depression do not exist among primitive tribes.
     
  11. Wolf Prince

    Wolf Prince My future job title.

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    If i wear to pick a game to challenge this idea it would be the old mass effect series with Commsnder Sheperd. Its more then just kill counts and shooting enemies.
     
  12. Questella

    Questella Peace, Love and all that good stuff

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    I forget games like Call of Duty exist! :rolleyes: Didn't they use games like that to train military or something? IDK somebody told me that once

    Games to/for me are way cartoony, Pokemon, Sonic, Mario, WoW, TETRIS,
     
  13. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    The funny thing is, even alot of the games like Call of Duty or whatever still have their benefits.

    Playing CoD or Halo or whatever, aside from the usual coordination improvements and whatnot, also tends to improve teamwork & social skills, as without those, you *will* lose against a team that has any clue what they're doing. It also tends to improve confidence for those that are getting somewhere. Of course, trolls can ruin this, but... trolls can ruin anything, so...

    All of that is stuff that actual scientific studies have shown (since you bet there are people that research this stuff!). There are alot of other smaller things that go along with this stuff too. All of these things were the case even waaaaayyyyyyy back in the days of the ancient 2600.

    And all of these things mentioned so far, just the tip of the iceberg, right? There's games that are meant to tell a story, games that are meant to get you pondering deep subjects and really thinking about stuff (and games that tackle very difficult subjects such as depression). Or games that are very historical in nature, or things like that. Simulators too, that's a thing. Something like Euro Truck Simulator for instance. You drive a semi (and run a related company) and make cross country deliveries. No explosions, no violence, and yes you will get tickets and stuff if you dont follow the rules of the road. And that's not like a small game... that one got quite popular. There are alot of people that REALLY get into it. Same with Farming Simulator. Iv'e seen both at the freaking Walmart, even. It takes ALOT to get a game into one of those stores.

    And others that can just let you unwind. One of my favorites for quite awhile now is Goat Simulator, which is utterly ridiculous, but I frequently use it to unwind and get a good laugh. It's hilarous, it's goofy, and that's all it needs to be.

    Sadly the natural tendency for most people is to see a thing, and make assumptions about it. Blood and violence and nothing else, that's gaming to many. Quite irritating.
     
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  14. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Games have been around almost as long as humanity.

    Avē, Imperātor, moritūrī tē salūtant!

    Scapegoating? Maybe just a little bit longer. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  15. KagamineLen

    KagamineLen Gay and autistic midlife weeb.

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    I remember playing Leisure Suit Larry when I was growing up. And I still have yet to try to be a lame PUA wearing a leisure suit. Obviously, that video game did not do its job in trying to influence me towards the dark side of heterosexuality.

    I remember the controversy over SubZero's finishing move in the original Mortal Kombat. I also remember being 12 years old and thinking that was pretty badass. None of the other kids in school tried ripping out my spine after playing that game.