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Now what to do?

Jox

New Member
Hi all,
Previously I posted " Is this a spectrum?.." and the answers led to a direction of dark triad. It's not that. I'm going to summarise the behavior is in front of me.

1. Yesterday Raam came in the morning unannounced to pick up some clothed for the" Boss".
He didn't make an eye contact. I found it strange and forced him to look at me. Didn't go far. He didn't have much time and in the contract he was defensive, and yelling.
2 two days ago in the evening Raam, the Boss and a third person came after a full day of purchasing the land. Of all Raam was overwhelm, he would curl up on the chair and cover his eyes. He looked like little life is left in him.

Now general:
1. He's 31 yo man. Was a hotel me manager, and making parties, he was drinking heavily. He had relationship of 3 y, and got dumped. I meet him in the lock down period, so u don't know him from that period. When I met him he had quit drinking for a month, and now he didn't have a sip not intends to.
2. Buy conclusion I thought he's very social person. Yet very soon he started to ponder why he had no friends? I didn't understand it and thought it was random existential questions we may have from times to times.
BUT it's not like that at all:
- he has no emotional contact with anybody, to some extent with me.
- he thinks by himself for himself, no human imput easily gets in the computing.
- he tries to please people based on his observations that are logical to him. I like fish, so he would bring it, or please me in the ways I find unnecessary, or even silly, i remember saying don't calculate how please me it's not working that way.
Not having friends is not that minor, since he genuinely doesn't understand human contact.
- yet if he calculates that it's emergency or that he's needed he over acts, over exert himself so he ends up as described in the beginning.

He is alone in this world, exhausted by his calculations and now he seems on the edge of a collapse.

I don't want to make it words than it is. I saw a video that if avoiding eye contact he shouldn't be forced to have it. Wel I did the opposite, i forced it. He's talking and deface mechanisms are useless, ye costing him too much energy.

Now what should I "do". De facto we are connected so "leaving" is not an option. If staying i must educate myself. I don't feel it as an easy task, where, how. Some videos hit the spot, some don't... It seems i did more damage than good. But i have also my life and my needs, and he does feel like a burden but at the same time like a good person completely lost in what he sees as a demand of others, and that's sad.
Before he would come to my place and now that i think of it use it to recharge. But with this guest house, I present the problems and now it's one more thing that he ( can't) has to do.
So since i can't be out of it for now, what to do?
Hope I made some sense out of this mess...
Exhausted from nothing Jox
 

Hypnalis

Well-Known Member
@Jox

Interesting timing - I checked here in just as your post came up :)

You're not providing enough information.
IMPORTANT: this is normal. NT's can't accurately read Aspies or people with personality traits that imply low/zero empathy.

I asked you to test something in a previous post, and you haven't.
This closes out the possibility of my helping you figuring out what's going on. BTW I'd need to know more about you too, which might not be easy.
If you're not "all in" it can't work.

Perhaps some of the others here can help.

What's left: IMO it's "cut and run".
* If he has major problems, they're not your problems.
* If he's causing problems for you: given that you haven't even fixed him yet, you're not likely to. Disengage.
** If you disengage, try to get some of your money back. You may get some, and either way, his response will provide useful information

If you choose to disengage, and you have to leave some money in an uncertain state, I hope it's not too much.
 

Jox

New Member
Why you think I didn't answer your questions. I'll read it again, but it doesn't seem to have relevance to him, I'll re-read it again.
 

Hypnalis

Well-Known Member
@Jox

NT's always have difficulty grasping the fact that they do not understand Aspies.
It's normal, but it is also a major block to effective NT<->ND communication.

e.g. we get people dropping in who are concerned about their years-long relationship with an ND, but who clearly have no idea how to talk to their partners. Is it reasonable for them to expect us to figure out their issue in 10 minutes based on a 20-line post?

This has some implications for all NT's asking for help. One is that you won't understand the particular "control questions" regarding your situation. If you did, you wouldn't need to come here for help.

So here's an accurate perspective: what we can do, and all we can do, is apply an "Aspie-centric" analysis to a situation that might involve another Aspie. i.e. we look at the parts that aren't clear to the NT, because there's a chance we can understand those.
That's it. We have no" magic" wand to directly solve NT issues, and if you think about it, it would be very very strange if we did :)

Speaking only for myself: I'm here to talk with other ND's.

I don't mind when NT's ask questions but don't want to actually participate in the analysis/solution process.
But in that case I disengage, because I'm not here to train a very small part of the other (est.) 99.5% of humanity how to talk to us.
 

Jox

New Member
Reply to dark triad,
I don't see any signs, not abusive in any way, quite opposite, trying to help/ please others. I'm people pleaser myself so up to now i thought we had similar traits.
Body language
I don't see anything at all. He told me that as growing up in sports he had so many injuries that cost family too much that father prohibited sports.

Now I do see that he's more introvert than i thought. He is not good with eye contact. Sometimes he stares though.
Just writing this letter i realised that our interaction was his running away from the family, and having neutral space to recharge. Very often he seemed overwhelmed, but I couldn't see the reasons...
Also he would complain a lot that he doesn't understand what others want, need from him.

I didn't see him much in social settings.

Answer reasons two is that I don't expect solutions immediately or to all. It just happened that yesterday after I forsed the eye contact, i saw a video on Youtube and concluded that i did all the opposite and created more conflict tention than needed had I known to let him be.
Also I learnt that yelling him what is wrong in the house is having overwhelming effect, since he can barely core with his situation as is. So I decided to stay low, i think.
EDIT
I'll post about me intro soon.
I don't think I'll leave, just have to understand my place in this, i made mistakes too... From the start i new something was wrong...
 
Last edited:

Hypnalis

Well-Known Member
Rather than your describing yourself, for now, let me ask a few specific questions about you.

First:
* Who made first contact when you met, and how did the initial contact go?
Keep the "how" brief. We won't find the same things important.

A comment. This isn't immediately relevant - it's prep for a likely later post:

I (and I think people on the spectrum generally) find some NT behaviors quite odd. One is the collective denial about things which are obvious to us, including in the area of inter-personal relationships.
Speaking just for me: I observe and analyze NT behavior rather than react emotionally. The analytical process is "brutally objective", but OFC it's also imperfect. This has an interesting side effect - along with a certain "blindness" to NT behavior, I can see things that NT's themselves are blind to (or maybe I'm just prepared to talk about it rather than participate in the collective denial :)
 

Mary Terry

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
How sad that you understand so little about NTs. There is much need for both kinds of people to interact and learn from one another. If you've met one NT, then you've met one NT. The same is true for NDs.

I'm NT. I've participated on this forum for years. Why? Because I like people and I'm not hung up on identifying their neurological state in order to converse with them. Try it yourself. You might learn something new!
 

Jox

New Member
First meeting:
Raam contacted me through dating app. It was the time of the first lockdown. I didn't see clearly his face or anything. He came in unattractive clothes, with grown beard and strange long hair. He's 31 but growing bald. He looked like a bum. Raam told me that he is going through some ritual where for some time he'll not cut beard or hair, not have sex, then he would go to a temple where they'll cut it for him ritualistically, and after he could have it. So first meeting was relatively short, but he was not uncomfortable. He was not quiet but at the same time was not talking much personal stuff. After that he would come in the evenings, unannounced, and we would talk but we would have no talking time too. No any fisical contact as for the ritual i think. I was somewhat surprise that he was very comfortable in my space, and now i wonder if he considered it as my space. I also remember that he was concerned that my room was too cold, which i interpreted as that he was thinking about me. I forgot to say that he stoped drinking a month before and the ritual was supposed to represent the change in his life.
 

Jox

New Member
How sad that you understand so little about NTs. There is much need for both kinds of people to interact and learn from one another. If you've met one NT, then you've met one NT. The same is true for NDs.

I'm NT. I've participated on this forum for years. Why? Because I like people and I'm not hung up on identifying their neurological state in order to converse with them. Try it yourself. You might learn something new!
I think that for me it's learning process. Just don't know exactly how to start. I'm not going to leave, not only because of the money, but we did have an important relationship, and now he is going through hard time. Don't think we are perfectly healthy, and i don't leave people easily. I don't think he's a bad person, but if i know more what's going on it would make better for both.
 

Hypnalis

Well-Known Member
@Jox

Have you seen any tangible evidence of the life he describes?

The "Bank Manager" role (especially when compared to his appearance) and the claim to have had a good income by western standards stand out, but there are other things.

I think you mentioned the time between his losing the job and your first meeting, but I forgot.
Is the length of hair consistent with local bank employees + that delay?
If you're not sure how retail bankers dress, check out a couple of bank branches.

Was the first meeting at your dwelling?
(BTW: this is a poor defensive strategy. Don't do it, especially in a place where you can't speak the local language.)

What does his place look like? A bank manager's house, or a gangster safe house?

BTW - just confirming - are you living where you first met him (or at least separately), or have you moved to his guest house?
 

Jox

New Member
@Jox

Have you seen any tangible evidence of the life he describes?

The "Bank Manager" role (especially when compared to his appearance) and the claim to have had a good income by western standards stand out, but there are other things.

I think you mentioned the time between his losing the job and your first meeting, but I forgot.
Is the length of hair consistent with local bank employees + that delay?
If you're not sure how retail bankers dress, check out a couple of bank branches.

Was the first meeting at your dwelling?
(BTW: this is a poor defensive strategy. Don't do it, especially in a place where you can't speak the local language.)

What does his place look like? A bank manager's house, or a gangster safe house?

BTW - just confirming - are you living where you first met him (or at least separately), or have you moved to his guest house?
 

Jox

New Member
I see that you doubt what he presents as reality, i do too but in this way:
1. When he described his job as a hotel manager very soon i realised that he was not managing but doing the work himself almost to the point of self distriction.
2. He was exposed to many people, traveled to foreign countries but didn't describe the people hosting him, nor i felt he had any emotional observation of the friends.
3. He doesn't maintain any relationship, and is puzzled when i talk to my friends over the phone..." What is there to talk do much about..."
4. The ex drug lord king is his way to get to work as hotel manager when the construction is completed. He is investing unproportional energy of pleasing the lord.

5. He is not lying, but he is not sharing his plans to anybody, I'm the most intimate person and i know nothing about his plans. I think that the gap of his plans and sharing it with me is impossible.

4. He doesn't listen to me or other people, sometimes he does but as it were a class that he's learning, in other words he can't process the information with his vision of his world in real time.

6. From my side i know he is a good person sincerely, and that he's on the end of the line, which makes me impossible to cut him off.
7. Yes, i do live in the guest house, not in his house. This may contribute to him thinking that I'll be always there for him, i.e. which is true.

I do understand your suspicion of his caracter as it is very colourful and that he's desperate to get back to the economic lifestyle he's used to.
 

Hypnalis

Well-Known Member
When I wrote my last post I thought he'd been a bank manager. Sorry.

FWIW there's a lot more space for sketchy people like the guy you describe in the hotel business than in banking.
OTOH the hotel business is quite casual about handing out Manager titles, but very few of them are well paid.

It doesn't matter though. At this rate I'd have to keep asking questions for weeks to fill in all the gaps and remove the inconsistencies.

My last try I think. No offense, but I don't think he's an Aspie, and if he's not, this is somebody else's problem.
If he is, Aspies don't harm other people for fun or profit, so I wouldn't expect him to present a serious risk.

Perhaps my last question:
Have you objectively verified (i.e. not via your guy) all of these facts about his life?
If not, you should.
 

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