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New Minister for suicide prevention votes for benefit cuts to most vulnerable

Discussion in 'Politics Discussion' started by Mr Allen, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Link.

    I'm sorry but WTH?! When will this end? Tories need to be voted OUT IMO.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

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    Any Tory who did not vote consistently for benefit cuts - i.e. toeing the party line, wouldn't stand a chance of any ministerial position anyway, so it's hardly surprising that their first one to get the role is eminently unsuitable. You should take a look at Shaun Bailey, their candidate for the next London mayoral election if you really want a laugh!
     
  3. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Why do you assume that a politician's ideological perspective would magically change just because they are appointed to an executive role in government? She was an ideological conservative before becoming a civil servant. And ideological conservative before being elected to Parliament. And she's still an ideological conservative as a Health Minister.

    You Brits were spoiled with Winston Churchill. Who as a Tory often did more than just raise the political eyebrows of his peers. Especially when so often in the company of David Lloyd George. Much to the chagrin of the Tories in general. Sadly that was a long time ago. When a scant few politicians still voted their conscience.

    Seems nowadays most if not all politicians draw lines in the sand with very sharp swords. Perhaps the worst "sign of our times". And on both sides of the pond no less.

    Though in the case of Britain, the dominant party seems to hold power with only around a 39% majority. If this estimate is accurate, it would seem a political coalition of multiple ideological interests could potentially bring the Tories down.

    YouGov | Voting Intention: Conservatives 39%, Labour 35% (8-9 August)
     
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  4. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    So basically you agree with the benefit cuts?
     
  5. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    It's not for me to agree or disagree. Merely to point out that politicians are motivated first and foremost by their party ideology. An ideology that involves inherent fiscal restraint whether the revenue is there or not.

    That what you seem to expect or demand isn't likely to happen. When it does it remains an exception- not the rule. In politics it's seldom a matter of placing the right person for the right job. More a case of assigning a fox to guard a henhouse.

    Often a classic reason why cabinet level officers come and go within a single administration. They aren't there to set the world on fire.
     
  6. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    So what if a few Million disabled people top themselves when their benefits get cut? They were inferior beings according to the Tories anyway!
     
  7. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    There any number of taxpayers who are fundamentally disgusted with the amount of money government spends on those less fortunate. So much so that they band together in both an ideology and political party to push their agenda. Especially effective if they represent a political majority at the ballot box.

    You look at it from a very different perspective. -So do they. But it's their numbers that ultimately dictate policy. Not passionate and moral interpretations of the issues.

    The point being that whatever you think of them, their perspective is not likely to ever disappear from the political arena. Which is reflected in how most republics and their democracies endlessly trade power back and forth over how they support or oppose the concept of a welfare state in whole or in part.

    Tories and Labour, Republicans and Democrats. Similar struggles with different labels that never end. Don't look for any final resolution of such issues. They don't exist where adversarial politics is legally or constitutionally mandated where the electorate eventually tires of whom is in power sooner or later.
     
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  8. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

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    Nothing about this story is about helping anyone.
    The only reason a "minister for suicide" has been created is to improve PR. There is an acknowledged problem of increasing suicide rates, noticeably amongst the disabled and long term sick. By appointing a minister, no matter how inappropriate or unqualified they are, May can create the illusion that she and her government care about the problem. There will be nothing achieved, there will be lots of meetings, press releases, TV interviews, opinion pieces in the press and plenty of carefully massaged "official figures", but no meaningful action to combat the source of the discontent behind people taking their own lives in increasing numbers.
    But she will be able to stand in the Commons on a Wednesday and say "look at what I've done, I've appointed someone to look at the problem, see I DO care," despite the fact that most people can see right through the deception.
    It's playing politics and holding on to power for as long as possible, not about people. The polls have been fluctuating ever since the last election. This month Labour are ahead and few points, next month the Tories catch up, but when a new GE is called all the reporting rules change, the smears have to be reined in and the the candidates have to talk about policies, about how they can improve lives. That's why the Tories lost the majority they had last time, when the media expected a whitewash. She and her party have no ideas, whilst Labour has a fully costed, practical manifesto that can change this country for the better. The rich may find themselves a little less so, the easy money grabbing opportunities may start to dry up, but we'll have a country to be proud of once more.
    Get the topic away from hyperbole and smears, and on to economics and social policy and voters unhappy with their lot start to see the truth.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Your sentiments remind me of a bit of dialog out of the film "Lawrence of Arabia". Where King Faisal is being interviewed by newspaper reporter Jackson Bentley.

    Where Bentley wryly answers the King, "You answered without saying anything. That's politics!"

    Most of politics is about form- not substance.
     
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  10. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Yeah, all those moronic Daily Fail and Telegraph readers with an axe to grind against benefit claimants.

    I can't help that I was born a disabled person with Asperger's, it happened, I don't like it, in fact I hate my life at the moment, but I'm stuck with it because I am NOT giving Theresa May and chums the satisfaction of killing me off as a disabled person.
     
  11. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

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    Btw - Churchill is not the British hero you seem to imagine. He was at the helm during the last war for which he justly deserves to be remembered but he was neither hero nor saint. He was a drunkard, a cocaine addict and a tremendous racist. He believed that Native Americans had no right to ANY land, that white people were superior to all other races and his opinions on India were compared by Leo Amery, then "Secretary of India" (and quite the bigot in his own right) as being indistinguishable from those of a certain Austrian painter turned despot.
    If you want a true British political hero, try Clement Attlee or Aneurin Bevan:)
     
  12. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Churchill's charm was in his ability to keep perspective of his failures as much as his triumphs. And some of his failures surely endured from the First World War to his death in 1965. And any number of constituents ideologically opposed much of anyone let alone Churchill crossing party lines as a matter of principle.

    Realistic and introspective of his own shortcomings- as a man, a prime minister and even a father. But then all real or perceived heroes are only human. And of course America has a number of presidents whose only relationship to Native Americans might be expressed as genocide and little else. Sadly Churchill had plenty of peers in this regard.

    Some of my relatives are no more a fan of Churchill than any other English Prime Minister. But then they're just looking for independence- not British heroes.
     
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  13. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    What people obnoxiously complain about to newspapers and a yellow press doesn't matter. It's how they express themselves at the ballot box that can potentially change policy- and lives.

    The thing is, those not killing themselves whether disabled or not may translate into what seems to be a huge number of homeless people in Britain, with most of them in and around London. It's too late for the dead who opt to take their own lives for whatever reasons. But when they have some 300,000 homeless you have to wonder.

    I mean, we're six times your country's population yet we have a little less than twice that amount of known homeless people. And with a GDP that is only $2.6 trillion with a 19% corporate tax rate? Small wonder Tories are taking money from disabled benefits and transferring it to the NHS. Difficult to view this from any other perspective other than to cite it all as being indicative of insufficient revenue.

    However even if the Labour party takes power now, they can't dramatically raise taxes in a rush either. This sort of recovery could take a long time. Seriously- if I were depending on such benefits, I'd be saving as much cash as is possible. And then consider the Brexit on top of it all. Hard times no matter who may be in power in the future. This may be only the beginning.
     
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  14. Shiznown

    Shiznown Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the Labour party the ones that keep calling for censorship and the ones that introduced Article 11 and 13? Both your major parties are terrible. The only one that sounds decent at all is UKIP and they don't even sound all that great. Though I can never understand the Brits when they complain about things like this, but are perfectly happy and content with paying for a royal wedding and having a hybrid monarchy.
     
  15. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    UKIP will never get in power! They are a bunch of racist thugs.

    Next Election I will vote Labour, Jeremy Corbyn's a complete numpty, but Labour have better policies than the Tories so yeh.
     
  16. Shiznown

    Shiznown Well-Known Member

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    Right, because they actually care about putting Brits first. You would think someone who's unemployed would think about how floods of immigrants would affect them getting a job.
     
  17. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Racist much? I voted remain for Brexit because I don;t waste time crying about immigration issues.
     
  18. Shiznown

    Shiznown Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm so raciest for thinking countries should put their citizens first. By the way, I'm dating an asian woman, I have black and asian friends and 3 of my exes are black. I guess I'm the world's worst raciest. On top of that I plan to have mixed white asian kids. Jeez, I can't believe how raciest I am.
     
  19. Shiznown

    Shiznown Well-Known Member

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    Funny you make how many threads a week about applying for a job? I mean I also thought their were black and asian brits too, but I guess I was wrong about that. Your country should just give all these undocumented people, some of whom commit violent crimes like rape and murder, they should just take in all these people. Yup, they need work and free housing more than you, apparently.