Never accept a lift on a first date

[Aeolienne]

I take it most of you here are familar with the above advice, especially in the context of online dating. The main reason is safety: as you have no way of knowing in advance whether someone is a potential abuser you have to err on the side of caution. Safety aside, as conversation can be stilted if you're meeting someone for the first time you want to be able to leave before either of you starts to feel bored. I suspect that a promising relationship could be nipped in the bud by an overlong first date.

Presumably if you already know your date (as a colleague or friend of a friend) the above considerations wouldn't apply, especially if you've already shared a car with them.

In the past, I have experienced awkward exchanges with people I'd arranged to meet from dating sites who offered me a lift - in fact seemed overly keen to do so. This happened more often when I lived in on the edge of rural areas compared to when I lived in London. I wonder if this is one of the silly games people play: men have to offer lifts to be seen as gentlemanly providers and women have to decline so as not to be seen as easy. There was one date I had who was really persistent in offering me a lift. I was equally persistent in saying no thanks. When we did meet he kept distracting me during our conversation each time I tried to check the train times home. This was before I had a smartphone, so I was relying on a paper timetable in my pocket. Eventually I had to use the time-old excuse of visiting the ladies' room in order to check the timetable, and once I went back to him I was able to say truthfully "I have to go now - my train's in five minutes". Looking back on it, the whole encounter feels quite creepy. A friend I told afterwards said I'd had a lucky escape! By contrast, my mum was initially a bit slow to grasp why accepting a lift on a first date is a bad idea.

All this begs the question: if it's unsafe to accept a lift on a first date, does it automatically become safe on the second?

There was one episode of The Undateables that had me shouting at the screen because the couple shared a taxi on their first date - Lily the haunted house enthusiast with Williams syndrome with date Josh. Granted, with the camera crew in tow it's unlikely either would have come to any harm. Still, I thought it was rather irresponsible of Channel 4 to show this without a "don't try this at home!" disclaimer.
Series 6, Episode 2: Eddie, Lily & Pani

 

[Mary Anne]

I was raped by accepting a lift from someone I had met in a bar, and spent a few hours with there. They gave me a ride home, and locked the doors and raped me right in front of my house in nice, quiet suburbia at around 2:30 am. I was 20 years old.

He was 19 years old, and I often berate the fact I never told anyone, and he probably went on to live a life raping others. It really messed me up for several decades of my life.

That being said, statistically, most rapes occur by people who know each other a while. That’s very scary. To think that someone you have known a while, and trust, might rape you.

 

[Suzanne]

I am married, so not in the run of dating ( think it would not please hubby lol). I think what can also be added now is: don't give out your phone number until you get to know the person a bit.

It shocks me how many young women just hand over their number and then, get all upset when it goes wrong and complain that they are unable to change their number or phone!

Lol I am like that. Ie your shouting at the screen.

If I am knowledgeable about something, I cannot help but put someone right.

Not that this is related, but recently seeing my therapist and him trying to win me over witih medicine ( he did and they are great), he came out with: suppose you had diabetes; you would have to take medicine for that, wouldn't you? I said: not for diabetes 2; because it is a lifestyle and because the pancreas works still! I got silence from that and after my husband said: you did it again. Why can't you just have let him finish? Well, dear husband, because I already knew he was using psychology on me and besides, how can one just sit back when they know the other a bit mistaken?

 

[Mattymatt]

I was raped by accepting a lift from someone I had met in a bar, and spent a few hours with there. They gave me a ride home, and locked the doors and raped me right in front of my house in nice, quiet suburbia at around 2:30 am. I was 20 years old.

He was 19 years old, and I often berate the fact I never told anyone, and he probably went on to live a life raping others. It really messed me up for several decades of my life.

Wow! I am so deeply sorry that you had to go through this. I cannot imagine what you went through only that it was all kinds of painful. It boils my blood that you experienced this.

 

[Suzanne]

raped me

Just one thing to ask? Who do you blame? I shall expand. If you blame the rapist; good on you and that is a healiing going on. If you even remotely blame yourself, stop now. Yes, silly and niave to accept a lift; but certainly not to blame for someone who could not accept no for an answer!

 

[Mr Allen]

I was raped by accepting a lift from someone I had met in a bar, and spent a few hours with there. They gave me a ride home, and locked the doors and raped me right in front of my house in nice, quiet suburbia at around 2:30 am. I was 20 years old.

He was 19 years old, and I often berate the fact I never told anyone, and he probably went on to live a life raping others. It really messed me up for several decades of my life.

That being said, statistically, most rapes occur by people who know each other a while. That’s very scary. To think that someone you have known a while, and trust, might rape you.

He raped you in the car? :O

I'm very sorry but WTF?! Just because he was only 19 and probably not "getting any" does NOT give him the right to do THAT to anybody.

You should've reported him to the local Police.

 

[Mary Anne]

Wow! I am so deeply sorry that you had to go through this. I cannot imagine what you went through only that it was all kinds of painful. It boils my blood that you experienced this.

thank you Mattymatt. I have experienced a whole lot MORE then that in my life. I look back on it as just one thing that is the sum of my life. But the first few decades I see now that most of my unhealthy choices were probably based on that incident.

 

[Mary Anne]

He raped you in the car? :O

I'm very sorry but WTF?! Just because he was only 19 and probably not "getting any" does NOT give him the right to do THAT to anybody.

You should've reported him to the local Police.

“Should have reported him????” It was the 1970s! Girls in bars drinking until closing time (2am.) accepting rides from strangers would not have been taken seriously by any authorities...or my parents either (who would have kicked me out of the house permanently for being a “bad girl.”). It would have been really bad for me to do so.

Even nowadays, there is tremendous stigma still within the justice system for rape victims. I get angry when someone who has not gone through it (you) tells someone this. In theory, yeah, he should have been reported, but I did not even know anything about him to tell, and I would not have exposed myself to further brutalizing trauma from the justice system. It’s truly unacceptable for you to tell me or any other victim what we “should have” done. Especially, since you have no idea what it was like in the 1970s, before women’s lib.

Btw, rapists do not rape because they don’t “get any.” Rape is done for other reasons. Being so young as he was, he probably had started very early in age, and went on to do so repeatedly. Rape is not about the sex act. Its about controll...the ultimate endorphin rush of domination, and controlling others.

 

[Mr Allen]

Should have???? It was the 1970s! Girls in bars drinking until closing time (2am.) accepting rides from strangers would not have been taken seriously by any authorities...or my parents either. Even nowadays, there is tremendous stigma still within the justice system for rape victims. I get angry when someone who has not gone through it tells someone this. It’s truly unacceptable for you to tell me or any other victim this.

Meh, rape is against the law, he broke said law, therefore he should've been arrested.

Do you see?

 

[Kari_Cookie]

Meh, rape is against the law, he broke said law, therefore he should've been arrested.

Do you see?

I think even right now some girls are embarresd or shamed of reporting rape. I think society is already making progress compared with 40 years ago. We might need more time to make this world more friendly to women.

 

[Mattymatt]

thank you Mattymatt. I have experienced a whole lot MORE then that in my life. I look back on it as just one thing that is the sum of my life. But the first few decades I see now that most of my unhealthy choices were probably based on that incident.

That's very understandable! When things like this happen, it can cause one to make poor decisions. However, I hope you don't blame yourself.

 

[Mary Anne]

I think even right now some girls are embarresd or shamed of reporting rape. I think society is already making progress compared with 40 years ago. We might need more time to make this world more friendly to women.

I would agree 100% but change the last part to ALL rape victims, as male rape does happen much more than you would think, and mostly goes unreported.

 

[Mary Anne]

Meh, rape is against the law, he broke said law, therefore he should've been arrested.

Do you see?

You completely missed the point of what I wrote. Do YOU see?????

 

[Mattymatt]

Meh, rape is against the law, he broke said law, therefore he should've been arrested.

Do you see?

The United States is just recently making progress when it comes to rape and sexual assault. In the 1970s and 1980s, a woman drinking in a bar that gets raped would have been seen by law enforcement as responsible for her own undoing. It was really a strong blame the victim mentality. In some ways, that attitude is still prevalent. Once in college, I was a witness to a rape in progress. I am not what you would consider a violent man until I see someone being victimized or I am backed into a corner. I went thermonuclear on the guy and I honestly think I could've killed him. The police showed up and arrested the guy. The cop told me off the record that if I had killed him, he would've helped to make the evidence disappear. All of my teenage years, I was a victim of psychological and verbal abuse and no one stood up for me so I cannot and will not stand idly by when an innocent person is victimized. If it so happens that I die defending someone else, then so be it! I will have lived a good life, saving another's.

 

[LucyPurrs]

Yes agree with this advice do not accept a ride from a first date. I was almost raped by a blind date in college in his car. I couldn't leave as there was no way for me to get back to my college ( was at another college where I didn't know anyone and it was in the middle of nowhere). It was pretty scary. Later on in my 30s I was raped by a work colleague who thought women who said "no" were just teasing. It wasn't fun. And I knew this guy pretty well. So sometimes you just don't know I guess. At the time I didn't think of it as a rape so didn't report because it was a date rape not a stranger rape. Nowadays I'd report it!

 

[Mattymatt]

Yes agree with this advice do not accept a ride from a first date. I was almost raped by a blind date in college in his car. I couldn't leave as there was no way for me to get back to my college ( was at another college where I didn't know anyone and it was in the middle of nowhere). It was pretty scary. Later on in my 30s I was raped by a work colleague who thought women who said "no" were just teasing. It wasn't fun. And I knew this guy pretty well. So sometimes you just don't know I guess. At the time I didn't think of it as a rape so didn't report because it was a date rape not a stranger rape. Nowadays I'd report it!

@LucyPurrs, It makes me so mad to hear that this happened to you. I hate predators with a passion. Sexual predators deserve imprisonment.

 

[LucyPurrs]

@LucyPurrs, It makes me so mad to hear that this happened to you. I hate predators with a passion. Sexual predators deserve imprisonment.

Thanks Matt! Your support is very much appreciated

 

[Judge]

Meh, rape is against the law, he broke said law, therefore he should've been arrested.

Do you see?

Rape is only against the law when it's proven in a court of law by a unanimous deliberation of a jury.

Much more difficult to prove than you think. Even with DNA evidence when the circumstances revolve around the premise of a date rather than a random attack, it can tremendously skew an accusation of rape.

IMO the incidence of how many rapists are not convicted through criminal trials still reflects society's existing gender bias, apart from Hollywood's "casting couch" which has been so prevalent in the headlines. In essence, women still have a long way to go to achieve equality and justice which they have always been entitled to.

 

[Aeolienne]

I am married, so not in the run of dating ( think it would not please hubby lol). I think what can also be added now is: don't give out your phone number until you get to know the person a bit.

It shocks me how many young women just hand over their number and then, get all upset when it goes wrong and complain that they are unable to change their number or phone!

There is an obvious advantage in having swapped mobile numbers before you meet in that you are able to let each other know if you're running late. That said, people used to manage well enough without the need to be constantly on call! It appears to be one of the rules of The Undateables that the participants aren't allowed any direct contact with their assigned date before the meeting. Presumably it's assumed to make for better TV viewing (if a little unrealistic), because otherwise there would be conversational exchanges that the home audience wouldn't get to see.

I'm OK with exchanging numbers before meeting up, but only if we have actually made definite plans to meet. This is mainly because I loathe txtspk and do not wish to be bombarded with bitty messages throughout the day. There is a safety aspect too; most sources advise caution about someone seems too keen to go offline too soon, which is a known tactic of scammers wanting to escape the notice of the moderators.

Most sources, but not all. When I was browsing the internet for the topic of this thread, I came across a piece by some self-styled dating coach who appears to be dead against women erring on the side of caution. He seems to think that a date's only worth going on if you trust the other half well enough to be picked up, and his response to safety concerns is to claim that women are more likely to be stalked or assaulted by someone they already.
Would you rather meet out or get picked up for a first date?
There's obviously a logical fallacy here. Women are less likely to be assaulted by strangers because we have it drummed into us from an early age that we are more vulnerable than men. In fact statistically men are more likely to be attacked in the street, whether because they take more risks or just because they're more likely to be the victim of the kind of pub brawl that begins with a "Who do you think you're looking at?"

Please don't take this as anti-feminist bashing - I'm certainly not claiming that female victimhood is a myth. But we shouldn't allow men to be victims either. I once a had a disagreement with the women's group at uni because they wanted to introduce a women-only "safe bus" service and I said that any safe bus should be for all students. This was at the university where I did my postgraduate studies. The university where I did my undergraduate studies had a non-gender-specific "safe bus" service, so it is possible.

I once heard this awful tale about a female Club 18-30 rep who was really hassling a male participant to have another drink and when he refused, she responded by throwing him off the coach and telling him to walk back to the hotel. This was in Ibiza, so he had to walk back in the dark along the San Antonio road (a notorious road accident blackspot). That was outrageous. She would never have got away with treating a female holidaymaker like that. It's been rumoured that Club 18-30 is about to go out of business - good riddance.

 

[Mary Anne]

@LucyPurrs, It makes me so mad to hear that this happened to you. I hate predators with a passion. Sexual predators deserve imprisonment.

Imprisonment, unfortunately often does not help. These people do need help, and cannot control themselves. Neither can pedophiles, which most people do not know, but pedophilism is abnormal brain chemistry...it’s not about “choice” to not do bad things! They cannot help it. It’s a disability, which most people would heavily and angrily debate (of course), due to moral, emotional, and political objectives. Scientifically, it’s difficult to change your brain chemistry w/o drugs, intensive cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), and perhaps electric shock.

I worked with pedophiles in the past job. They are typecast for life, even though the one was only 20 when he got caught, did 4 years in prison (isolated from general populations), and was trying to follow the rules of probation, and find a job. He has slight cognitive difficulties- which is something other pedophiles often have too.

Anyways, once again, I got off topic from this thread. Sorry. One last thing, for anyone about to get on my case for anything I have said here, please understand that I am able to dissassociate my own past problems from working with the justice impacted in an objective manner. Someone has got to help them, and I am interested in why people do what they do, criminal / deviant / abusive behavior, or not. We need to understand, not hate, and I am able to work with this population.