Negotiating needs between AS/NT partners

[JKG]

My NT partner and I have been experiencing challenges clearly expressing our needs (emotional, communication-based, sharing space, scheduling, vacationing, socializing, etc.) to one another and negotiating solutions. My therapist suggested that I seek stories and advice from other aspies and aspie-loving NTs. So: What has or hasn't worked for you in working out the day-by-day details of living together with a partner? What lessons or tips have you learned that you can pass on to others? Thank you in advance for helping me here!

 

[JKG]

I'd like to add one more question to my query here: Does anyone have any advice or stories about how to deal with an NT partner who perceives your aspie traits (i.e. executive functioning challenges, or socializing differences, for example) as a personal slight or as lack of love? Even though my NT partner knows cognitively that my struggles in certain areas are aspie-related, and that I am trying hard to meet her expectations (sometimes I can; sometimes I fail despite myself), she remains mad, disappointed, and feels personally hurt. I'm not sure if there is any solution to this one....

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I stumbled a lot with NT partners. What finally helped was negotiating an agreement about what "love" looks and feels like, and how to express neediness for a very specific thing (hug is not same as kiss, cuddle is different, too). Going to parties was a nightmare to negotiate until I managed to articulate my unspoken, undefined, and yet absolute rules of engagement: arrive On Time. I can stand this for 90 minutes before I need a break. How do I get a break? How do I tell you I need to Get Out Now With You (because for whatever reason exiting alone isn't an option). Stuff like that.

But mostly, how do I know what you need, and what do you have to do so that instead of reading your mind (hopeless) I can interpret a signal?

It takes a while. And it goes BOTH ways, because neither one can substitute their rules for themselves for the other one's rules.

Ban the word "never" as in "You never..." because whatever came after it didn't really say what needed to be said.

Use "I", especially when upset. "I" doesn't attack in the way that "you" does.

 

[IrishAspie]

I'd like to add one more question to my query here: Does anyone have any advice or stories about how to deal with an NT partner who perceives your aspie traits (i.e. executive functioning challenges, or socializing differences, for example) as a personal slight or as lack of love? Even though my NT partner knows cognitively that my struggles in certain areas are aspie-related, and that I am trying hard to meet her expectations (sometimes I can; sometimes I fail despite myself), she remains mad, disappointed, and feels personally hurt. I'm not sure if there is any solution to this one....

Sounds like a tough situation, understanding something logically is one thing but tolerating it is another.
Your partner may be feeling frustrated and a little neglected.
What normally works for me is some sort of romantic guesture, a reminder that you do care and your not taking advantage and leaving everything to them.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Use "I", especially when upset. "I" doesn't attack in the way that "you" does.

That's a good one.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I'd like to add one more question to my query here: Does anyone have any advice or stories about how to deal with an NT partner who perceives your aspie traits (i.e. executive functioning challenges, or socializing differences, for example) as a personal slight or as lack of love? Even though my NT partner knows cognitively that my struggles in certain areas are aspie-related, and that I am trying hard to meet her expectations (sometimes I can; sometimes I fail despite myself), she remains mad, disappointed, and feels personally hurt. I'm not sure if there is any solution to this one....

I don't think her feelings are going to change much until you have been together for awhile and she accepts the way you are. She's probably going back and forth between her feelings and her logical reasoning that you're an Aspie and that you deal in logic and not "feelings". That's hard for an NT woman because we do "feelings". She's probably going to be hurt for some time to come because it's going to be very lonely for her that you both can't share the same "feelings" that another NT would. Not your fault, but it's going to be lonely and she will never have a "closeness" that she would like to have with her partner - you. She's going to have to find closeness with other NT's - women only (which isn't really the same, but will have to do).

 

[Rocco]

I struggle with a nearly identical problem, and after 11 years, have not made much progress. Therapists, counsellors, and well intentioned folks have all run into the same NT brick wall that I have Post again if anyone with similar troubles finds a solution other than dissolution.

 

[JKG]

Yeah, sadly, after 3 months of therapy, my NT partner of 10 years wants out--so we are breaking up. I couldn't change enough for her, and she just couldn't depersonalize it when my aspie traits would pop out. She felt like I was disregarding her as a personal slight. That was not my intention at all; I wouldn't even be aware of what I was doing--when for example my focus would suddenly latch onto something and I'd inadvertently stand in front of her while she was watching tv. It's so depressing to lose someone you love because they can't deal with a part of you; it's a real gut-punch to the self esteem. I'm heartbroken.

 

[Rocco]

Have you been able to get your partner to join a site like this, or an NT group for those with aspie partners? Where they can chat together and go over things/ compare notes? My partner is on wopoa or some Facebook group for partners of aspies. While their tone is often negative, it highlights how much harder some have it than others.
I feel your pain JKG. I hope things turn around for you soon.
Best wishes.

 

[JKG]

Thanks for the kind words, Rocco. They mean a lot right now. No, my partner has never joined such a site, and we live in an area that doesn't have such support groups available for adults. My partner has learned, via the 3 months of therapy, that my aspie traits carry no intentional motives of disregard for her. She understands this cognitively now. But that still doesn't change the fact that her feelings jump right to feeling hurt; my traits still bug her; they still make her twinge over and over again. She can't turn that off just as I can't turn off being aspie. And though I have done what I can to mitigate those traits, they still happen sometimes and will continue to happen. So, we've officially agreed to split, and she's starting to pack her stuff and move out. :-( Thanks again for the empathy. It helps dispel some of my loneliness. And best wishes to you in your current situation. I'm hoping for good things for you.

 

[Tia Maria]

Oh JKG, I am so sorry.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

Yeah, sadly, after 3 months of therapy, my NT partner of 10 years wants out--so we are breaking up. I couldn't change enough for her...I wouldn't even be aware of what I was doing--when for example my focus would suddenly latch onto something and I'd inadvertently stand in front of her while she was watching tv. It's so depressing to lose someone you love because they can't deal with a part of you; it's a real gut-punch to the self esteem. I'm heartbroken.

I'm going against the current here to say this isn't "just" an aspie-NT problem, in my (admittedly limited) view based on definitely limited information (no slam on you, JKG, I'm acknowledging the impossibility of putting 10 years of marriage and 3 months of therapy into 1 paragraph so that near-total strangers who don't know either of you can comment on the outcome supportively).

People do change over time. If I were marrying now, instead of 18-or-so years ago, I very likely wouldn't marry the same guy. I've changed, substantially, and so has he. However, the marriage I want now is still attainable. So the compromises we made then and the ones we make now are different, and it's no less work, it's different work.

My suspicion is that focusing on this aspie thing, after 10 years of enduring it, sounds like "he's not changing but you have." I have zero credentials for counseling, but were it I, I would be mourning what was, being careful about how I talk to myself (I'd talk to myself in the 3rd person, positive language, a lot). After a period, I'd ask myself...

1. What is really non-negotiable for me, and what can I adjust, related to whatever social issues I have?
2. How do I want to navigate the world as a newly created single? How will whatever lingering ties remain honored, if any?
3. What can I do now, as a single, that I couldn't do as a partner? Include the obvious stuff, but don't stop there.
4. Can I learn to talk to myself in the third person, encouraging and acknowledging? Third-person affirmative throws a cognitive switch that helps recovery from trauma. There's a full article on this in the June 2015 issue of Psychology Today...

And nothing takes the sad away, but sometimes useful things follow in sadness's train. This is one of those situations where I am sorry about your loss, and yet, somehow, unlikely as it seems, hopeful about your future. Despite present pain.

 

[Mia]

About ten years ago, my AS husband and I were at a crossroad. I was extremely unhappy with our relationship, and had been for years after countless visits to marriage counselors, therapists, psychotherapists. Each therapist made mention of similar things; communication, self-esteem levels and with every visit I grew more and more confused. Apparently, I was supposed to leave my husband and that would solve the problem. Each therapist said similar things. I should respect myself, love myself, care just for myself and give up on my marriage.

I do care for myself, I also care for my husband. Why couldn't we do this thing together? My therapist would smile when I said that, as if I were an imbecile. "You need to be alone to do this, to meet your inner child, to find yourself," "You're codependent, too enmeshed" another would say. I would respond to their criteria for enmeshment, and refute it.

It was almost as if they failed to recognize what actual caring was or is. Yes, we depend on one another, it is as if we have one another's backs. I protect him, and he protects me. It was the actual visits to the 'professionals' that made me realize how little they actually understood about relationships. Every relationship is somewhat flawed, none seem to actually fit the criteria for the perfect relationship. It's so dependent on the people within them, what they understand, and how much they are willing to compromise and give to one another.

I began to understand that what I saw in my husband was all that mattered. He could be kind, honest, thoughtful, quite ethical, yet quite often in the past I would reinterpret the things he said and did as cruel or mean, insensitive and unkind. It was through a filter of childhood stories, books and media, and the 'fairytale' distortion of reality that I expected certain displays of affection and love.

I began to question my perceptions, all of them. If my husband was unkind, why did he seem to be embarrassed or have blackouts or become completely forgetful afterwards? Was this premeditated? I began to realize that it was not. His meltdowns happened during confrontations when he didn't have time to think, during store or restaurant visits when there were too many lights, noise and people and too much stimulation. They were a self defense mechanism from too much going on at once. He would often apologize for such displays of extreme emotion, and yet even in the heat of the moment he only ever surprised me.

It was my interpretation of the things that he said and did that caused such pain. Filtered though movies and books and greeting cards and love songs and commercials, my understanding of normal everyday behavior had been formed. It was in fact an unreal, manufactured world of superficiality that I was raised to believe was real and authentic, where it was actually the opposite. After that realization I began to see and understand how falsely 'manufactured' a world it was and still is, and to rethink and change my perceptions accordingly. It's difficult to reconsider what you believe to be true, a given, in a world that is sometimes inexplicable, full of conundrums, where each and every one of us looks for constants and truths.

 

[JKG]

Amazing, wise, and helpful, Mia. Thank you so much.

 

[paloftoon]

About ten years ago, my AS husband and I were at a crossroad. I was extremely unhappy with our relationship, and had been for years after countless visits to marriage counselors, therapists, psychotherapists. Each therapist made mention of similar things; communication, self-esteem levels and with every visit I grew more and more confused. Apparently, I was supposed to leave my husband and that . . .

I began to question my perceptions, all of them. If my husband was unkind, why did he seem to be embarrassed or have blackouts or become completely forgetful afterwards? Was this premeditated? I began to realize that it was not. His meltdowns happened during confrontations when he didn't have time to think, during store or restaurant visits when there were too many lights, noise and people and too much stimulation. They were a self defense mechanism from too much going on at once. He would often apologize for such displays of extreme emotion, and yet even in the heat of the moment he only ever surprised me.

It was my interpretation of the things that he said and did that caused such pain. Filtered though movies and books and greeting cards and love songs and commercials, my understanding of normal everyday behavior had been formed. It was in fact an unreal, manufactured world of superficiality that I was raised to believe was real and authentic, where it was actually the opposite. After that realization I began to see and understand how falsely 'manufactured' a world it was and still is, and to rethink and change my perceptions accordingly. It's difficult to reconsider what you believe to be true, a given, in a world that is sometimes inexplicable, full of conundrums, where each and every one of us looks for constants and truths.

That's deep! And, I can see why in this case, therapy doesn't necessarily always work. 1 hr sessions are sometimes not enough to truly understand the possibilities. Ultimately, it is the individual that has a choice to try to make. Sorting out the possibilities is not easy for anyone. I've had better luck with friends that had the stamina to figure out all these things (most people cannot handle such details and layers, or the amounts), friends that I didn't have until after the fact Which is better than nothing. I still doesn't take the pain away. The only person that can take the pain away at this point is me. I think I've even scared away communication with a few users on here because I was going through so much emotional turmoil

 

[LucyPurrs]

Yeah, sadly, after 3 months of therapy, my NT partner of 10 years wants out--so we are breaking up. I couldn't change enough for her, and she just couldn't depersonalize it when my aspie traits would pop out. She felt like I was disregarding her as a personal slight. That was not my intention at all; I wouldn't even be aware of what I was doing--when for example my focus would suddenly latch onto something and I'd inadvertently stand in front of her while she was watching tv. It's so depressing to lose someone you love because they can't deal with a part of you; it's a real gut-punch to the self esteem. I'm heartbroken.

I think the term depersonalize hits the nail on the head. If we all could take things less personally I think we'd all be happier. I'm as guilty as the next person and have to remind myself the world doesn't revolve around me and there could be so many other reasons for someone's behavior, including a partner's behavior.