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Need advice on my ASPIE son

The Lorax

Well-Known Member
Usually I post on the general forum helping out the ASD community understand NTs. But now I need help.

My son has mild ASD, anxiety disorder, ADD (which is declining now), and exertional asthma which means he loses his breath playing any sport quite easily. He is empathetic, 141 I.Q., a little self aware, very kind, eats well. He just turned 15 in March. He gets A's and B's.

He has been on ADD medication since 3rd grade. It drastically improved his learning. But now it seems he has stabilized that and doesn't need it. So we are trying to take him off.

Since puberty he has needed an SSRI. It came to a point my wife and I were walking on eggshells around the house. It was incredibly uncomfortable in our own home being with him. The SSRI helped for I'd say for 10 months, then we had to increase the dose to the maximum. It helped a little while and now we are in a situation.

At the end of each school year my son usually has some trouble with school refusal. We have no idea why but we get through it.

After Christmas break he started his school refusal again which was odd because this doesn't happen till usually April or May.

Now he is absolutely refusing to go to school. If I manage to get him there he does nothing in his classes. Yesterday I dropped him off and he wandered around for 20m before someone noticed him and brought him in. Then he called me 1 hour later to get picked up.

We had a long discussion where I asked simple yes/no questions. He is suffering from depression and anxiety. But he says only sometimes. We noticed he has a low frustration level. Is becoming more defiant. Not doing things he did just a year ago like brushing his teeth at night. I have to pressure him to do his school work which isn't hard for him.

I am desperately trying to get a therapist but it seems no one is covered on insurance. WTH?
We are looking to change psychiatrists because the one we have is just basically a drug dealer IMO. She does no critical thinking for us. I have to do all the research and offer drug suggestions and pay her WTH?

He has great grades until this last quarter. Even if he fails all his classes he still passes the school year. He has done well on all his finals.

I tried to research this but got no valid answers.

How hard should I push having him go to school while he feels like this? Clearly something is mentally wrong. But allowing behavior that just lets him sit at home on the computer watching videos or playing games all day isn't good either. What happens next start of school year?

This situation was tough to manage but one day it just collapsed on us about 2 weeks ago.

If at least he did his work I could justify it some. But it is a mental struggle every day.

My wife has the same conditions. We both work from home. She is starting to be impacted by his behavior. She is very fragile mentally and the main bread winner. I stopped my career to help my son but managed to create a business for extra income. I am also starting to break mentally at the whole situation. It is mostly having to create a strategic plan every single morning to try and get him to function. It is mentally exhausting me.

This morning I have a new plan in place to deal with him. I don't know how hard to push on the school thing.

Today I am trying.....

I can't force you to school you are 6' tall. But you need to do these assignments. But just like I can't make you go to school I also don't have to let you have access to my internet. If they are not done by noon I am turning off the internet.

Then escalating from there. Next day it will be his computer.

I don't know how hard to push against how he is feeling mentally. He insists he is not being bullied at school and the teachers havent noticed it.

No article tells me beyond the obvious NT reasons on what to do. Most are not helpful.

I also fear if I push too hard it drives him further down the rabbit hole with possible self harm.
 
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Has school work been difficult? Can you tell him he will be held back a year if he doesn't pass his current grade? If he is dropping out, then he has to get a full-time job?
 
I distinctly remember both my boys hating those high school years. It was a combination of their high intelligence and resultant boredom, their seemingly unwillingness to understand why they needed to take a bunch of classes they weren't interested in, and teenage hormones that often led to frustration and anger. Both my boys would do what they needed to do to get the grades,...but their teachers would consistently say to my wife and I,..."He's really not putting forth the effort." Translation,...He's too intelligent, he's bored, and simply not interested in the classes."

Neither of my sons were on the spectrum,...although, at times they can act like me. As they say, "The nut didn't fall far from the tree." However, once they got to their respective universities,...they thrived and actually did better. They were taking classes they were interested in, and were challenged enough to be intellectually stimulated,...and they were paying for classes,...some financial motivation. Both have graduated, gotten excellent jobs as engineers, and have moved up the corporate ladder quite quickly,...within 2 years, both are in supervisory positions. All that and one son was still working on his Masters in biomedical engineering, specializing in CRISPR and tissue engineering,...not a "light" subject,...he graduates in a few weeks and will be off to some high-tech lab shortly afterward.

Now, throw in the "Aspie" variable, with your son. It is highly likely he is even more of the thought process that "he isn't doing what he wants to do", he probably is a bit of an "outsider" socially, and given his intelligence, is rather bored with school, in general. I think things in general, have been amplified from what my boys went through. Throw in the medication variables,...and as you likely know, some of the brains neurotransmitter receptors and actions are in a bit of "flux" during puberty and adolescence,...and can be a "nightmare" to deal with. A classic example,...at what point do you flip from Ritalin to Adderall,...because they have opposite effects between the pediatric and adult brains,...and when do you change the meds? You know your son, but perhaps he needs tap into one of his special interests with a class at a local university or community college where he can also be challenged,...but also make those connections of reasoning between why it is still important to do those general ed classes in order to move forward with his education. Accept the fact that he isn't going to be interested in them,...you still have to be on him about it,...but make him accept that there are things in life you just have to do,...those "hoops you have to jump through" to move forward.

I know, every parent has given and received advice, but your child is your child,...unique,...so sometimes you just have to "wing it" and do your best with what you know to be true.

Good luck
 
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I do think there may be a chance that he is actually being bullied. School refusal was a big thing for me for my entire childhood and even in high school because I was so traumatized by bullying. Usually the school will just sweep it under the rug too, which might make him reluctant to tell you.
Try to ask more direct questions from school staff, if possible. When my parents found out what was really going on and that the school was essentially lying to them, they took appropriate action.
 
I think a combination of factors could be involved. First, I am not sure why the ADD medications are not needed if his ADD condition has stabilized using them? Is he on them now? If not, could his attention away from his educational work be from that discontinuance there? Could increasing the SSRI's to the max be involved in making things worse? Or could he be upset from any med changes there? Also, could he either become bored as the school years go on, or feel too much pressure to fit in or succeed, or does his social situation there worsen as time goes on? It's really hard to say, if your son cannot explain why he loses educational interest there.

From what you say, your attempts to resolve the situation sound somewhat reasonable to me, in absence of him being unable to give reasons why the noncompliance or refusal to learn at a school or finish his assignments at home. I am a bit confused though, as you say he is empathetic, and usually this implies understanding oneself and others more, and being more aware of their feelings, instead of having no answers there, or trying to be oppositional or defiant. I am not sure how you word things to him during your frustrations, and during your attempts to find resolution, but there are several things to consider.

For instance, try using a calmer voice during those difficult conversations, even if frustrated, and have your wife and you be on the same page with regards to what you decide. Children can often sense division or lack of similar resolve. Also, give him clear and reasonable choices, like you mentioned, and explaining such in a caring and positive way, such that the message and logic is more apt to be heard and not the emotion. If this means waiting until you and/or your wife are calmer or in better mood, do that too, as even the brightest and most caring children will be more receptive to advice and demands then.

It sounds like you are a caring parent and want the best for your son, and just want other perspectives as you are unsure what the solution is. None of us will be able to know exactly the cause, but we can give some suggestions, direction, or opinions. Just know, even if you did or are doing things very soundly and efficiently, this does not always mean great results will always occur, as Autism combined with ADD must make it hard for you both and him, so focus on giving reasonable efforts. By being rational, considerate and patient as possible this increases the chances of less troubles there, or some later resolution.

I am a believer in explaining to our oldest Autistic son the importance of certain basic things in life, and if he disagrees with that, deviates from that, is unable to do that or think that way, or wants his usual ways changed up, of course it is instinct to want to learn and explain more there. For a situation like you mentioned, I would not be lenient or strict, but in-the-middle there, sandwiching two sincere and true positive statements about him with the concern or need in the middle, but often giving him a few reasonable choices there, after explaining the possible good, neutral and harms of each, and the consequences to all involved, too.

Part of growing up means the teen must make more and more important decisions and be held accountable for their actions and inaction, if those actions and inaction are not against educational law or other law. In those cases, we can be more assertive and demanding there, with less or no choices given. As a parent it is very hard to watch one make decisions that we feel could be a big mistake along the way, but sometimes we have to let certain things be until we learn more, or until that teen is more receptive. Other times, yes, give a few reasonable choices, in the middle as mentioned, and if he refuses, a temporary restriction.

Going through puberty must be hard in many ways, so factor that in as well, with those hormone changes. But, a common mistake parents make is to fear taking away any privilege because of the mental health condition, fearing some further meltdown or severe worsening of the situation, or thinking doing so is improper as it must be condition related. As long as that child knew that important message and possible restriction was done and to be done out of love, and if it was explained well in a caring way, with a one or two warnings of the consequences too, the child should get more benefit there from those set boundaries.

Communication is often a big key. So, one concern was when you said you had a long discussion asking just yes and no questions. Sometimes yes and no answers will not explain everything. What are his responses to open ended questions? Then he can reply as long or as short as he likes, and your follow up questions and comments can hone in there, depending on his replies. If he is not comfortable talking such difficult topics through vocal speech, then send him the questions and statements through some form of writing/email, or have him draw pictures, and so on. So, I just gave some ideas for you to consider, and I hope things get better for you there. I wish your insurance could cover therapy to get answers there too.
 
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I remember going thru a refusal stage myself - but there were issues I didn't feel my parents would understand so could not discuss them.

My gut instinct is not to push hard, and avoid getting upset, making things stressful. I would think about how to frame it in a question of choices, discussed calmly. Just as an example, looking at what options there are (and consequences) as alternatives to going to the current school. For instance saying he has to continue by law till age so and so, so if he does not wish to continue at school, he will need to begin homeschooling. It sounds like he attends regular school. Is Special Education and option?
 
How is he doing socially? T that age, and undiagnosed my social skills were nonexistent and became so socially avoidant that I had a hard time wanting to be in school. You could say I was probably schizotypal. Social counseling could have helped me immensely.
 
Has school work been difficult? Can you tell him he will be held back a year if he doesn't pass his current grade? If he is dropping out, then he has to get a full-time job?

Nope he is a genius. It's easy. He is 2 years ahead in school.
 
I distinctly remember both my boys hating those high school years. It was a combination of their high intelligence and resultant boredom, their seemingly unwillingness to understand why they needed to take a bunch of classes they weren't interested in, and teenage hormones that often led to frustration and anger. Both my boys would do what they needed to do to get the grades,...but their teachers would consistently say to my wife and I,..."He's really not putting forth the effort." Translation,...He's too intelligent, he's bored, and simply not interested in the classes.".....

Pretty much all that. He hasn't stated he is bored. And yes when you are that smart it is hard to relate down.

Even I have that issue at times and I am an NT.

In my old neighborhood I was with these 2 neighbors having a little street party. I always kept it simple. One of them brought up economics... cool maybe he is interested.... I spoke intelligently answering his question and asked how he felt. I got a 1 word answer that felt like I spoke over his head..... Then I changed the subject to sports "So how about those Patriots huh?" referring to football.... that broke the tension.

I like Chemistry Cat memes. Not many people do because they don't appreciate the periodic table.

Sadly he said at first he has no friends. Now it is I don't know what. But I know he has friends. He chooses not to engage them actively. Winging it seems to be it. Next year he has more interesting classes.
 
I do think there may be a chance that he is actually being bullied. School refusal was a big thing for me for my entire childhood and even in high school because I was so traumatized by bullying. Usually the school will just sweep it under the rug too, which might make him reluctant to tell you.
Try to ask more direct questions from school staff, if possible. When my parents found out what was really going on and that the school was essentially lying to them, they took appropriate action.

He is not being bullied. I asked several times and he just doesn't lie to us. A feature of his autism. Like 2 weeks ago he stayed up till 1am playing a video game when he is supposed to get off the PC at 9pm. He openly admitted it without us asking. What am I going to do punish him for it? School also says he isn't.

Some kids did test him in middle school and he just ignored them. He is also 6' tall so generally no one messes with him. He wears cool shirts also. We put some money into making sure he doesn't dress like a dork. That sounds terrible but he is pretty frugal and won't shop for himself. I have to take him to the mall and be like a clothes designer with him taking him to stores and seeing what is in and not in.

Funny story we went to one store with incredibly cool shirts for school. It was impressive. I got a shirt to buy they said $40. WHAT? FOR A T-SHIRT!?!?! No.

I went to the next store that also had some super cool T-shirts. A sales person walked up to us while we were still laughing about the ridiculous prices of the other store. "Hi, we were just laughing that that store was charging $40 for a T-shirt. Who the hell do they think they are. BTW How much for this shirt?"

Sales guy had an odd look on his face as if he was not amused... "$100."

I replied "That's beyond ridiculous. Well clearly we are in the wrong store." and left.
 
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I think a combination of factors could be involved. First, I am not sure why the ADD medications are not needed if his ADD condition has stabilized using them? Is he on them now? If not, could his attention away from his educational work be from that discontinuance there? Could increasing the SSRI's to the max be involved in making things worse? Or could he be upset from any med changes there? Also, could he either become bored as the school years go on, or feel too much pressure to fit in or succeed, or does his social situation there worsen as time goes on? It's really hard to say, if your son cannot explain why he loses educational interest there........

His condition is very mild but it is there. We spent a good deal of money early to get him to behavior therapy. So he acts appropriately because he is trained to. He still doesn't like small talk. He also has trouble expressing his feelings so I break it down. Like instead of "tell me how you feel today" which I get an "I don't know" every time when he is feeling bad or a "fine" if he is ok. I say "are you happy, sad, or have anxiety?" and he gives me an answer. "Do you feel anxiety more than 50% of the day or less than 50%?" instead of asking how often. I tree my questions down so his executive function can deal with 1 simple item at a time until I get my answer. But when he shuts down... forget it.

I am very calm and strategically choose my words. Usually about once a year I do lose it but I am not insulting or cussing at him. More the typical critical parent. Usually due to I just had too much on my plate. We don't insult or put him down. My wife and I are happily married like little kids together so he sees that. We aren't nasty to each other. He isn't nasty to us. Once he even said he was happy he had such a wise father to me. Today he didn't go to school again, as if it would change anything. Now he is mostly normal but not his usual happy.

Yea the punishment reward is an odd thing with him. It doesn't work. We use natural consequences. This morning I made a simple change to my plan that didn't sound like a punishment. I told him he can get on the PC and watch videos while he eats. But no video games until his work is done. I explain to him how games suck the motivation out of him to do his school work. He listened and did his school work after 3 hours but he did it. An NT kid reward and punishment are easy. I would still use natural consequences. We lived with an NT kid for a while... rented a room in our home... and OMG he was sooooooooooooooooo easy. And yes I explain to my son everything logically and rationally. I am downloading all my wisdom into his brain because my father didn't teach me anything pretty much. I want him to make all new mistakes not repeat mine.

Open ended questions don't get answered. Emailed questions get 1 word answers.

Insurance in general is messed up always no matter who we have. This person is on but not listed. This person is off but listed. What really pisses me off is that the mental health professionals take days to call back or don't call back at all and I have to hunt them down. I can never get someone on the phone directly. Makes me move to the next one. We got lucky that the 1st psychiatrist in the state we lived was a genius. Also our current psychologist. They both say that if you want a good mental health provider you pretty much have to pay out of pocket. They also told me that most of the field are full of incompetent providers.

Our current psychiatrist is charging $500 an hour for me to basically do all the research then ask her a question. We are changing her. It pisses me off. She is the expert. I emailed her 2 days ago and STILL haven't heard back. I expressed how serious his situation is getting.

Like Prozac worked wonders on him. But after 5 weeks it gives him obvious tics that ill be made fun of in school. We take him off. Tics go away. Ok so during the summer we try it again without the ADD medication. 5 weeks on the nose it tics. We stop it goes away. The doctor insists its the ADD medication. It is a very rare side effect but it can happen.

I do so much research on neurology I almost sound like a professional.

Thank you for the input. He is my only child and I have no other references. So I need other parents to paint the landscape for me to make sure I am not going down the wrong path.
 
I remember going thru a refusal stage myself - but there were issues I didn't feel my parents would understand so could not discuss them.

My gut instinct is not to push hard, and avoid getting upset, making things stressful. I would think about how to frame it in a question of choices, discussed calmly. Just as an example, looking at what options there are (and consequences) as alternatives to going to the current school. For instance saying he has to continue by law till age so and so, so if he does not wish to continue at school, he will need to begin homeschooling. It sounds like he attends regular school. Is Special Education and option?

That is what I am doing. GED maybe. He is brilliant, 2 grades ahead. He wants to take calculus in 10th grade. He reads and writes like an adult. I would rather him take his SAT now then have him take 1 class at a time in college and just take 6-8 years to finish his 4 year. But no college accepts you locally without at least a GED. Even with a perfect SAT. It's ridiculous. He scored top 1% on his PSAT this year 9th grade.

And yes I decided to maneuver instead of push this morning after I got a good night's sleep. I also changed perspective and asked my wife about her depression days and how she acted.
 
How is he doing socially? T that age, and undiagnosed my social skills were nonexistent and became so socially avoidant that I had a hard time wanting to be in school. You could say I was probably schizotypal. Social counseling could have helped me immensely.

They are fairly good. You can't tell he has it unless you spend time with him. Then you realize he is talking at you. But with his friends he has engaged really well. He has a female friend that "likes" him. But he isn't interested because he doesn't want to ruin the friendship. What 15 year old says that?

He got behavior therapy for social skills. He also got it at school. It improved him a lot. I was told he is one of the few that could be taught and be ok as an adult.
 
I was like your son in some ways, I was also over 6 feet tall when I was 15 and my parents could not physically stop me or do anything if I was difficult. I could wrestle my dad to the ground and pin him down if I wanted to. And I became difficult at 15, it's a terrible and difficult age. Just awful. Luckily it passes so you just have to hang in there.

This is different from person to person, but one thing that changed it a little was what I would call a well-placed bribe, sort of. I had a strong interest in music. And I had a big catalog where I could order CDs and vinyl records. I was talking about that, about all the CDs and albums I wished I had. I was looking at that often and daydreaming about all the music. And my mom did something clever, she told me that if I did my best in school and just behaved well, she would let me order everything I wanted from that catalog and pay for it. The word "everything" really got my attention.

For 15 year old me that was unreal, it was the best thing ever. I couldn't believe it, I didn't know it was possible to do such a thing. And of course I behaved well after that, with that kind of reward I would have become a priest if she wanted me to. It was all I wanted in life. And I had something very interesting to play with and lots of it, that helped my mood. And there was always the possibility that it could happen again if I just did my best. So the right kind of well-placed bribes worked for me, or us, but it could be useless for others of course.

His bribe? Sushi every day. He is frugal. Sushi is expensive.
 
So big question.... what age does he improve? I read 16-17 but I didn't expect him to deteriorate from 14-15 like he is. Maybe I am over thinking it and he is just super bored. We did lower his load this year for easy classes the 1st year of high school which is the toughest.
 
Pretty much all that. He hasn't stated he is bored. And yes when you are that smart it is hard to relate down.

Yeah,...my boys never claimed boredom,...but when they are caught repeatedly sleeping and/or goofing off in class,...and still getting A's,...they're bored. My oldest son was a good sleeper,...needing 8-10 hrs/night. He would study to get grades. My youngest,...that kid never slept,...and he rarely studied. He would be up well past midnight, headphones on, playing on-line games,...he'd be cursing up a storm, yelling at whomever,...and my wife and I had to get up at 5am for work,...and he had to get up at 6am for school. We were always having to "ride his butt" about this and that.

Both went off to their respective universities, got their degrees, got their careers, and thrived.

I just think there are few accelerated educational avenues for those of exceptional intelligence,...at least for those under 14, or so. Once they get into high school, the community colleges do accept these students. It may not be until he gets into a university that he may be able to be challenged,...but even then, neither of my boys were challenged until probably their 3rd year in those upper-level classes.

The hard part as a parent and educational counselor is to find ways to channel that intelligence into something positive that these students are interested in.
 
He sounds amazing. You sound like a great parent. School as I remember it was pretty boring until the breadth narrowed down and we could specialise. Would he prefer home education. ?
 
Usually I post on the general forum helping out the ASD community understand NTs. But now I need help.

My son has mild ASD, anxiety disorder, ADD (which is declining now), and exertional asthma which means he loses his breath playing any sport quite easily. He is empathetic, 141 I.Q., a little self aware, very kind, eats well. He just turned 15 in March. He gets A's and B's.

He has been on ADD medication since 3rd grade. It drastically improved his learning. But now it seems he has stabilized that and doesn't need it. So we are trying to take him off.

Since puberty he has needed an SSRI. It came to a point my wife and I were walking on eggshells around the house. It was incredibly uncomfortable in our own home being with him. The SSRI helped for I'd say for 10 months, then we had to increase the dose to the maximum. It helped a little while and now we are in a situation.

At the end of each school year my son usually has some trouble with school refusal. We have no idea why but we get through it.

After Christmas break he started his school refusal again which was odd because this doesn't happen till usually April or May.

Now he is absolutely refusing to go to school. If I manage to get him there he does nothing in his classes. Yesterday I dropped him off and he wandered around for 20m before someone noticed him and brought him in. Then he called me 1 hour later to get picked up.

We had a long discussion where I asked simple yes/no questions. He is suffering from depression and anxiety. But he says only sometimes. We noticed he has a low frustration level. Is becoming more defiant. Not doing things he did just a year ago like brushing his teeth at night. I have to pressure him to do his school work which isn't hard for him.

I am desperately trying to get a therapist but it seems no one is covered on insurance. WTH?
We are looking to change psychiatrists because the one we have is just basically a drug dealer IMO. She does no critical thinking for us. I have to do all the research and offer drug suggestions and pay her WTH?

He has great grades until this last quarter. Even if he fails all his classes he still passes the school year. He has done well on all his finals.

I tried to research this but got no valid answers.

How hard should I push having him go to school while he feels like this? Clearly something is mentally wrong. But allowing behavior that just lets him sit at home on the computer watching videos or playing games all day isn't good either. What happens next start of school year?

This situation was tough to manage but one day it just collapsed on us about 2 weeks ago.

If at least he did his work I could justify it some. But it is a mental struggle every day.

My wife has the same conditions. We both work from home. She is starting to be impacted by his behavior. She is very fragile mentally and the main bread winner. I stopped my career to help my son but managed to create a business for extra income. I am also starting to break mentally at the whole situation. It is mostly having to create a strategic plan every single morning to try and get him to function. It is mentally exhausting me.

This morning I have a new plan in place to deal with him. I don't know how hard to push on the school thing.

Today I am trying.....

I can't force you to school you are 6' tall. But you need to do these assignments. But just like I can't make you go to school I also don't have to let you have access to my internet. If they are not done by noon I am turning off the internet.

Then escalating from there. Next day it will be his computer.

I don't know how hard to push against how he is feeling mentally. He insists he is not being bullied at school and the teachers havent noticed it.

No article tells me beyond the obvious NT reasons on what to do. Most are not helpful.

I also fear if I push too hard it drives him further down the rabbit hole with possible self harm.

Not sure if this will work for you, but I will share my parents method. They used it with 2 of my sisters and also with me one time I failed an exam. Its also the same method that was used with a friend of mine by his father, and also worked.

  • Kid: Hello dad, I dont want to study anymore.
  • Dad: Thats nice! You will be plenty of time. As your dad my mission in life is to prepare you for the future. When you was studing your future was to keep studing and then get a good job and gain decent money. Now your future is to work hard from a younger age and get used to live with less material things.
  • Kid: Huh? Im not in the mood of thinking too much rigth now...
  • Dad: I mean that you will not have acces to your toys, games, cellphone, computer, nice clothes, good food or money. Because you need to prepare to be poor. Also you will do house chores because you need to learn to work and become independent. If you want something more that basic food and chothes you will have to work. But I wont force you to do so, because you are free. Its your decission and I will respect it.
It works like a charm. :)

When my friend decided to go back to study his father told him that he still had to work to pay his things just in case stupidity could come back.:D

Those old folks. I have already told my 8yo daugther that if she ever dont want to study will sleep in the floor to get used to streets. :rolleyes:

Capitalism do miracles.
 
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The thing is that these kids are intelligent, so guilt doesn't work. And they may not believe you when you say hey no chores, no dinner. Child laws are different, parents are punished for more things. My daughter said no to license, l wouldn't accept that. But l never asked for anything, so she knew she had to get it. I dangled a Jeep sport car, used but l tricked out the stereo system for her. Then she became motivated. And she drove herself to final year of high school. Then she actually applied for work with zero prodding. So perhaps helping your son transition to a coming of age privilege, a car, a part-time job maybe? My daughter was swept up in the aimne conventions, so she had independence to go to those. She stayed away from drugs and other things.

But her emotions were all over the place. She was fragile. She ended up with excellent counseling from her high school. What a relief.
 

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