Need advice from Aspies about my son

[Carla Stone]

My 12 year old Aspie son has a routine every morning before he goes to school. He needs 3 hours to complete his list until he leaves the house precisely at 7:06. He created this for himself and it works very well for him.

This morning though, he slept through his alarm and panicked like I’ve never seen before. He cried and flailed around gasping that this was the worst thing that’s ever happened to him. I explained that he still had plenty of time to eat, etc.. This meant nothing to him. I told him I understood how hard this was for him but that everything was going to be ok moving forward.
He’s at school now and I’m worried about his emotional state.
Is there anything I can do to calm him down if this ever happens again? He’s very bright but it seems there’s no way to rationalize with him when he’s in this state of mind. Maybe some will say to get him a second alarm so this never happens again but I hate to reinforce his routine when I wish he was more flexible about it in the first place! Any advice or can anyone help me understand him?

 

[Mary Terry]

He is getting up at 4:00 a.m. everyday in order to complete his 3 hour routine before going to school? That's pretty extreme for a 12 year old who needs at least 9 hours of sleep every night. Can any of the tasks on his daily prep list be done the night before? I don't know what his tasks consist of but if it's things like selecting clothing, rounding up books and papers, then those things can be done the night before. Maybe you can start steering him to do more of those things at night and not wait till morning to do them.

 

[GrownupGirl]

I really don't know. When I was 12 I wasn't diagnosed, I had no list, if I was lucky I'd get up with a whole hour to get ready before the bus came, but would still be practically in a coma until noon no matter how early I had gone to bed, and if I overslept it was usually my mother who would be flipping out when I told her. My parents were usually still asleep when my brother and I got up, and we had to do everything on our own - eating breakfast, cleaning up. We had to do that even when we were much younger and whenever I see moms on TV having to help their TEENAGERS get ready for school and then drive them there I find it really bizarre.

 

[Carla Stone]

He is getting up at 4:00 a.m. everyday in order to complete his 3 hour routine before going to school? That's pretty extreme for a 12 year old who needs at least 9 hours of sleep every night. Can any of the tasks on his daily prep list be done the night before? I don't know what his tasks consist of but if it's things like selecting clothing, rounding up books and papers, then those things can be done the night before. Maybe you can start steering him to do more of those things at night and not wait till morning to do them.

I agree that he doesn’t get enough sleep. He insists that he needs three hours in the morning. I know this includes showering, “chill time“, “eating mints” (it’s on his list ‍), reading, going to the bathroom etc..
He already makes his lunch, picks out his clothes and organizes his backpack the night before.

 

[Carla Stone]

I really don't know. When I was 12 I wasn't diagnosed, I had no list, if I was lucky I'd get up with a whole hour to get ready before the bus came, but would still be practically in a coma until noon no matter how early I had gone to bed, and if I overslept it was usually my mother who would be flipping out when I told her. My parents were usually still asleep when my brother and I got up, and we had to do everything on our own - eating breakfast, cleaning up. We had to do that even when we were much younger and whenever I see moms on TV having to help their TEENAGERS get ready for school and then drive them there I find it really bizarre.

He does everything on his own. I offer to help him but he doesn’t want any of my help! I don’t know how he gets through the day without falling asleep. I know he only gets about 7 to 8 hours of sleep a night.

 

[Carla Stone]

To start with, I definitely, would discuss what happened, so that you can brainstorm solutions, together. Do this at a time of day that you know he tends to be calm, and might be open to strategizing. Others may have more effective solutions, but, that is what I would, personally, do, based on my own experiences/ having been in his shoes, essentially, and the way my parents had supported me with similar difficulties/ situations that caused me to feel a loss of control of my routine and overwhelming frustration.

I’ll try to talk to him when he’s calm. It’s just that he’s so stubborn and insists on doing things his way.

 

[Pats]

I don't know if there's a way to help when this happens. I need my morning routine and always set up appointments and other things later in the day so it doesn't disturb my routine. That morning routine sets up the entire day. If I know ahead of time that I'm not going to have as much time as I usually have, I can make allowances and plan accordingly, but unexpected is difficult to deal with.
I would suggest letting him have his routine (and I have heard that someone with autism actually doesn't need as much sleep as others, which I believe. When I was a child I was always the last to sleep (hours) and the first awake.) And discuss with him an alternate solution if something DOES change, like waking up late, so he can have a backup plan. It may take a little of the stress off.

 

[Mary Terry]

I agree that he doesn’t get enough sleep. He insists that he needs three hours in the morning. I know this includes showering, “chill time“, “eating mints” (it’s on his list ‍), reading, going to the bathroom etc..
He already makes his lunch, picks out his clothes and organizes his backpack the night before.

You're obviously doing a great job with him. It's hard to get NT kids to do those things on their own.

Like others said, talk to him about how he can reduce the time and tasks so he will feel more in control with less stress each morning. Maybe he could shower at night and just wash his face and brush his teeth in the mornings?

I chuckled at his "eating mints" requirement.

 

[Ginseng]

See if he will process with you what helps him about following his list. I would avoid the “Why” word because that sound accusing or fault finding. But, it would help to differentiate between autism and OCD behaviors.

If it is OCD it will cause him distress if he doesn’t follow his list precisely. But if it’s autism he will utilize his list for his “chill time” that is needed to prepare for a stressful day. With OCD the list would be stressful and he would welcome relief (which a doctor might be able to provide). But if it’s autism the list is his method of calming himself. Hope that makes sense.

Whatever it takes to help him is good. He came up with this plan. He sounds conscientious and determined to do his best at school. You might lovingly remind him you are available to help and I wouldn’t hesitate to get him a second alarm clock.

If this is from autism, he will need this or something similar to deal with anxiety inducing situations. I have developed all manner of “rituals“ to help me be calm for routine stresses. I feel messed up when my routine is interrupted. It is a necessity. I am kind of surprised he went to school. Impressed actually.

***And you sound like an awesome mom!***

Does he just have a list for school?

 

[Carla Stone]

I don't know if there's a way to help when this happens. I need my morning routine and always set up appointments and other things later in the day so it doesn't disturb my routine. That morning routine sets up the entire day. If I know ahead of time that I'm not going to have as much time as I usually have, I can make allowances and plan accordingly, but unexpected is difficult to deal with.
I would suggest letting him have his routine (and I have heard that someone with autism actually doesn't need as much sleep as others, which I believe. When I was a child I was always the last to sleep (hours) and the first awake.) And discuss with him an alternate solution if something DOES change, like waking up late, so he can have a backup plan. It may take a little of the stress off.

Thank you. Interesting idea that people on the spectrum don't need as much sleep. He seems to function fine during the day on the sleep that he gets. It would be nice to stop worrying about that!

 

[Carla Stone]

See if he will process with you what helps him about following his list. I would avoid the “Why” word because that sound accusing or fault finding. But, it would help to differentiate between autism and OCD behaviors.

If it is OCD it will cause him distress if he doesn’t follow his list precisely. But if it’s autism he will utilize his list for his “chill time” that is needed to prepare for a stressful day. With OCD the list would be stressful and he would welcome relief (which a doctor might be able to provide). But if it’s autism the list is his method of calming himself. Hope that makes sense.

Whatever it takes to help him is good. He came up with this plan. He sounds conscientious and determined to do his best at school. You might lovingly remind him you are available to help and I wouldn’t hesitate to get him a second alarm clock.

If this is from autism, he will need this or something similar to deal with anxiety inducing situations. I have developed all manner of “rituals“ to help me be calm for routine stresses. I feel messed up when my routine is interrupted. It is a necessity. I am kind of surprised he went to school. Impressed actually.

***And you sound like an awesome mom!***

Does he just have a list for school?

I thought that people on the spectrum could have OCD as well? He definitely is autistic but if he needs to follow his list precisely. He types out all sorts of schedules and puts them up on the wall. He thinks it's pretty funny when I react in disbelief to another list, method, schedule or calendar.
I will take your advice and get him another alarm clock. (Even though we're all going a little crazy hearing his constant alarms going off. He sets timers on for himself after school so he can do his homework, take breaks, snack, and study.) Thank you for the advice on not using the word "why." I can see how that would upset him. He's very sensitive and I have to be careful how I put things!

 

[Ginseng]

We can and often do have both. But OCD is stressful whereas autistic behaviors are calming. Google the difference between OCD and autism. I think something will pop up.

 

[the_tortoise]

I hate to reinforce his routine when I wish he was more flexible about it in the first place! Any advice or can anyone help me understand him?

It may not be possible for him to be flexible and still get through the necessary tasks....

It may not be possible for him to prioritize tasks in the moment or think up ways to do things differently than he normally does in the moment...(and I mean it may not be possible regardless of his emotional state)....

It may not be possible for him to remember things unless they are in a particular sequence....

Routines can be extremely important because they are functional (not just undesirable compulsions driven by anxiety...although even if the primary purpose of a routine is to manage anxiety it is still functional if it actually does that)..... Routines minimize stress and make up for executive functioning or information processing limitations that can wreak absolute havoc when trying to do every day tasks that NT people do not have to think about/do not struggle with.

Coincidentally, it also takes me about 3 hours to get through basic morning getting-ready tasks -- it's not because of OCD (I do not have OCD) nor because I have extraneous things I'm doing that aren't actually necessary, I just have information processing problems and I guess I'm really slow at certain tasks. If I don't have that time, things start going wrong.....the less time I have the more things go wrong. (Examples of things that have gone wrong numerous times in my life in these circumstances: forgot keys at home and didn't lock the door, locked myself out of the house with keys inside, didn't lock the door and left keys dangling in the lock all day, forgot bus fare, forgot wallet, forgot homework or necessary work items, didn't eat, didn't brush my teeth/shower/put on deodorant, didn't bring jacket, didn't bring lunch, didn't bring work keys, left the kitchen/house a disaster and got in trouble with roomates/parents (put nothing away as I was getting ready), (this one happened only once: ) stepped outside in my underwear because i actually forgot to put on pants , etc......)

I think the key thing is to reassure him that it's not the end of the world if he has a bad day and forgets something (or forgets many things), or ends up being late for school --not just at the time his routine is in disarray, when he is too freaked out to hear you, but in advance of next time, at a time when he is calm. Talk about the worst case scenarios for what would happen if he didn't get through all the things or was late because he did get through all the things while behind schedule, making sure to end at a positive place (so, for example, if he would get detention for being late, don't end the thought-exercise at him getting detention -- end at him getting out of detention and coming home and doing something to make himself feel better, then going back to his normal routine the next day).

Maybe you could also make a plan for what things can be cut out of his routine in situations when he is late and write it down somewhere? Basically get him thinking about a plan B -- or even a plan B, C, D, and E....if he can create backup plans, it may not be an increase in on-the-spot flexibility, but it is still an increase in flexibility (and eventually it may help him with on-the-spot flexibility, too, as he practices thinking of many ways to change things up to suit different problem-scenarios).

Don't focus on his routine as the problem, because it probably isn't. It likely serves a very important purpose for him, is helpful rather than harmful (or more helpful than it is harmful).

 

[GrownupGirl]

4 AM!? I had to get up at around 7PM and I'd still need at least 3 more hours of sleep to be officially rested, even though I was in bed at around 9:30 PM. And when I was a bit older and put on psychiatric medication I would be drugged-up feeling and so tired and miserable that sometimes I'd put my head on my desk, and wait for the day to end, and it didn't seem to help the anxiety symptoms I had just going to school at all.

 

[Judge]

Wow. I'm orderly and have my share of personal routines, but not any that would require me getting up three hours before going to work or school. In my entire time as a working adult, I kept such routines to no more than one hour tops. Especially with commutes consistently taking no less than one hour in themselves.

I mean, no matter what our issues are we must still negotiate with the realities of the outside world.

But then I have a Neurotypical cousin who essentially does the exact same thing in her early 60s. Getting up at four in the morning to arrive at work at seven am. And her commute is usually no more than 20 minutes.