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My "freeze loop"

Vince

Well-Known Member
I just found out about the freeze loop today. (Basic description video here:
)

Boy am I glad I discovered this aspie subject and started to explore this because just an awareness of what's going on in my head rather than it all being a series of frustrating mysteries seems like I might be able to figure out how to actually navigate through obstacles when they come up.

I still feel pretty stupid for not having considered that I might have Asperger's before now, but better late than never. The subject of a freeze loop is a huuuge deal for me. I have been frustrated for years that the best I could achieve in life is a job as a maintenance machinist when an I.Q. of 135+ should have resulted in something much deeper and advanced. I just figured it "wasn't in me" for some mysterious reason. I like my job fine, and I guess wondering "what might have been" is certainly not limited to aspies, but what a shame to have lost so many decades of possibilities to struggles I couldn't even see.

It seems evident that one of the biggest problems with anything where your brain is in the way of your success is the stuff that's in your own head is, more often than not, invisible to yourself. Being trapped within your own perspective is more limiting than people realize (aspie or not, of course). It's just written off as "habit" or some such similar, which is like building a fence around the problem. The fence get's stronger all the time while the problem stays guarded from exploration.

I experience a lot of frustration even in the middle of retreating into my "intense interest" hobbies. I certainly feel this when I'm working on a house project, and this happens at work too. It goes like this:

I am chugging along just fine and making some progress, but run into a slight problem which causes me to just quit for a significant time to go off and reboot or something before finally settling my mind down and digging back in. This happens often a dozen or so times in a day or even part of one. For example, I work on my house all the time and build things constantly. A classic example is to have to gather up a few tools and/or set up a machine or something to do some next operation before I can move past it. Almost without fail, the necessity of "changing gears" in my head so I can just keep working on my project will cause me to quit and take a break when I am not tired or otherwise need (or even want) to take a break otherwise. When this happens so often, I obviously get a lot less accomplished than I should. This happens every time and on pretty much everything I do. I guess it happens a bit less at work since the process is more organized and well-tooled, so I've worked through it quite a bit more than at home. Even the need to change directions is more of a routine there.

Anyway, the "resistance to change" seemed a bit too much like just naming something while not offering reasons or solutions. It occurred to me that the difficulty making a change seems (to me) to be explained in terms of why and what to do about it in the freeze loop video linked above. It's just a basic description though so only points to something I need to research more. I'm not positive, but it seems likely that the freeze loop issue is closely related to the problem I have with breaking routine.

Yeah I know I'm pointing out something you all already know well. Articulating it here clarifies it a bit for me though.
 
Interesting.
The only place that this possibly applies to me is when I am challenged or aggressed by a human.
I do freeze then--- and I'll stay frozen if they simply walk away.
I've learned, though, that if they don't, I'll have to defend myself in whatever way necessary.
It seems that if it continues or escalates, I'm galvanized into action.
The worst, for me, is when challenged or aggressed by someone I know.
The "closer" I am to them, the worse the freeze.
There is a difference, here, though.
When I am frozen, I am panicked, and I am also feeling the assault--- what they are saying is hurting me.
It seems like I'm simply unable to act.
It's apparent that I need to study this more.

I also have a high IQ.
I've been able to slip into highly technical jobs, sometimes with no experience.
I told them I could do it, then figured out how to do it before they figured out that I'd never done it!:p

Finding out you're an Aspie at 48yrs old is no joke.
So many regrets.
It's apparent that I voiced regularly exactly what was really wrong--- without being able to make the ASD connection.
Makes me pissed that no one listened, no one recognized it, no one cared.

So much I could have done differently.
So much that may not have happened to me.
 
I hear ya. It's almost unfathomable that I just realized this about myself literally a week ago.
Sooo many regrets indeed. Finding it out in middle age is no joke indeed (I'm 54).

I think what clicked for me on the freeze loop thing isn't as dramatic as facing a big threat. It's more akin to a bunch of tiny loops which happen frequently throughout every day. I don't know yet, but I kinda feel like if I can either 1) know what's going on and just figure out a strategy to work through it or 2) begin to organize my life a little such that dealing with unexpected changes becomes kind of it's own routine (like it kind of has become for me at work), might provide an effective method for getting at least some measure of increased successes from each day. I have no illusions of "fixing" the problem comprehensively, but every little bit helps.

Baby steps...

edit to add: I have no idea if this would apply to a close relationship at all or not. Honestly I haven't thought in that direction yet. But since I've already smoothed out enough lumps in the day-to-day motions that I can function in a decent job, I figure it might help with that at least. After all, at least for me, just dealing with a job then getting through my evenings at home is at least 99% of my time being alive.
 
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I just found out about the freeze loop today. (Basic description video here:
)

Boy am I glad I discovered this aspie subject and started to explore this because just an awareness of what's going on in my head rather than it all being a series of frustrating mysteries seems like I might be able to figure out how to actually navigate through obstacles when they come up.

I still feel pretty stupid for not having considered that I might have Asperger's before now, but better late than never. The subject of a freeze loop is a huuuge deal for me. I have been frustrated for years that the best I could achieve in life is a job as a maintenance machinist when an I.Q. of 135+ should have resulted in something much deeper and advanced. I just figured it "wasn't in me" for some mysterious reason. I like my job fine, and I guess wondering "what might have been" is certainly not limited to aspies, but what a shame to have lost so many decades of possibilities to struggles I couldn't even see.

It seems evident that one of the biggest problems with anything where your brain is in the way of your success is the stuff that's in your own head is, more often than not, invisible to yourself. Being trapped within your own perspective is more limiting than people realize (aspie or not, of course). It's just written off as "habit" or some such similar, which is like building a fence around the problem. The fence get's stronger all the time while the problem stays guarded from exploration.

I experience a lot of frustration even in the middle of retreating into my "intense interest" hobbies. I certainly feel this when I'm working on a house project, and this happens at work too. It goes like this:

I am chugging along just fine and making some progress, but run into a slight problem which causes me to just quit for a significant time to go off and reboot or something before finally settling my mind down and digging back in. This happens often a dozen or so times in a day or even part of one. For example, I work on my house all the time and build things constantly. A classic example is to have to gather up a few tools and/or set up a machine or something to do some next operation before I can move past it. Almost without fail, the necessity of "changing gears" in my head so I can just keep working on my project will cause me to quit and take a break when I am not tired or otherwise need (or even want) to take a break otherwise. When this happens so often, I obviously get a lot less accomplished than I should. This happens every time and on pretty much everything I do. I guess it happens a bit less at work since the process is more organized and well-tooled, so I've worked through it quite a bit more than at home. Even the need to change directions is more of a routine there.

Anyway, the "resistance to change" seemed a bit too much like just naming something while not offering reasons or solutions. It occurred to me that the difficulty making a change seems (to me) to be explained in terms of why and what to do about it in the freeze loop video linked above. It's just a basic description though so only points to something I need to research more. I'm not positive, but it seems likely that the freeze loop issue is closely related to the problem I have with breaking routine.

Yeah I know I'm pointing out something you all already know well. Articulating it here clarifies it a bit for me though.
I take those sorts of breaks too. I try to see the bright sides that I get to take stock of the progress so far and examine the direction I'm going.. But actually it is usually unnecessary and a waste of time.
I can sometimes (very occasionlly) avoid taking a break when I transition to the next step or process if I try very hard and am very motivated, but I never thought or considered that it could be any easier or there could be some techniques to help. (except I always wish for a partner to work with and help me keep momentum)
 
(except I always wish for a partner to work with and help me keep momentum)
Yeah I know what you mean. I have one friend (and one only) and I guess we're friends because we have similar skills. We help each other on projects from time to time. When I have his help on something I'm working on, I definitely get more done in the time we spend on it, but I also find it stressful. I kind of feel pushed, which is fine because the damn project needs to get done. And I appreciate the help of course and happy once a project gets finished - because it's finished. I don't feel pushed because he's pushy, it's an internal thing and just causes discomfort I guess.
My to-do list is absolutely huge so I swallow the bitter pill of discomfort when I can and afterward I can tick that box off the to-do list.
Gotta take the good with the bad, or vice-versa.
 
I am chugging along just fine and making some progress, but run into a slight problem which causes me to just quit for a significant time to go off and reboot or something before finally settling my mind down and digging back in. This happens often a dozen or so times in a day or even part of one. For example, I work on my house all the time and build things constantly. A classic example is to have to gather up a few tools and/or set up a machine or something to do some next operation before I can move past it. Almost without fail, the necessity of "changing gears" in my head so I can just keep working on my project will cause me to quit and take a break when I am not tired or otherwise need (or even want) to take a break otherwise.
I can relate to this - I don't physically freeze, I just hit a block, take a break and can't motivate myself. I can become overwhelmed by complex tasks in multiple stages, such as complicated cooking recipes, or fixing or repairing something. I think that all people experience this to some extent, but I more than most. It helps to break longer, more complex tasks into less overwhelming stages, and deal with one stage at a time.
 
Many of are are familiar with this phenomenon and have either not put it into words or know it by a different name. I've always referred to it as "functional inertia" - being stuck and unable to do what is necessary even if you know what the right course of action is.
Like @sidd851 it often happens to me in conflict situations with aggressive, unreasonable people. I always try to reduce conflict stress through logic and calm, but there are many people who won't allow this. They want to escalate it to an emotional issue because they know logic or facts will take the wind out of their argument. There comes a point where I can no longer be reasonable, I cannot argue back in kind and I cannot flee. I'm frozen - the inertia has become so great I cannot react. Inevitably when the numbness subsides I am left with anxiety and anger at myself for being unable to see the situation through which leads to meltdowns as described as "the freeze cycle" in the video.
There is a more benign form of the same concerning projects and activities. I am often quite driven in my activities, very focused on achieving specific goals, but I have learned that if I don't take a breather after reaching one of those milestones I burn out. Rather than face functional inertia in the middle of a project and risk not completing it, or being unhappy with the results, I schedule myself a cool down time in between tasks. Typically, when I upload a video, which is the culmination of dozens of hours of work over a week or more (nearly 3 weeks in the last case) I schedule a couple of days of downtime before embarking on the next, enough time to recharge the batteries and clear my head for the next topic.
It is rarely possible to do this in my day job which is why I find that more difficult to manage, but I try to find ways of recuperating as I go along when possible.
The video posted is quite informative and explains it well. I'm always a little wary of videos on autism which invite people to "take our course in..." or "come to our seminar on..." because they are clearly advertisements, however this one had much better content than most of that nature. Thanks for posting it Vince :)
 
Interesting.
The only place that this possibly applies to me is when I am challenged or aggressed by a human.
I do freeze then--- and I'll stay frozen if they simply walk away.
I've learned, though, that if they don't, I'll have to defend myself in whatever way necessary.
It seems that if it continues or escalates, I'm galvanized into action.
The worst, for me, is when challenged or aggressed by someone I know.
The "closer" I am to them, the worse the freeze.
There is a difference, here, though.
When I am frozen, I am panicked, and I am also feeling the assault--- what they are saying is hurting me.
It seems like I'm simply unable to act.
It's apparent that I need to study this more.

I also have a high IQ.
I've been able to slip into highly technical jobs, sometimes with no experience.
I told them I could do it, then figured out how to do it before they figured out that I'd never done it!:p

Finding out you're an Aspie at 48yrs old is no joke.
So many regrets.
It's apparent that I voiced regularly exactly what was really wrong--- without being able to make the ASD connection.
Makes me pissed that no one listened, no one recognized it, no one cared.

So much I could have done differently.
So much that may not have happened to me.
Yes. That's me. All of it.
 
Before I knew of my diagnosis I used to try to explain to my sister how I would freeze and literally be unable to move. It happens mostly in social groups. But any time I get stressed. Like going to the doctors and I'm burning up but I can't lift my arms enough to remove my jacket. I told my sister it was like when your eyes become fixated on something and you can't look away - your eyes are just frozen onto one spot - not even looking at an object. I'm not sure she even knew what I was talking about there, so maybe that was a smaller degree of freezing? Because your eyes are actually frozen to a particular spot - hmmm, maybe so.
 
I did not like this much. Even though he is Aspie, it seems he is putting a negative spin on Aspie Phenomena.

Personally, I like to freeze. It makes me feel safe. It's the precursor to go into the bubble I never should have been forces out of. It's more of a tingling than freezing, more of an issuing into my Safe Zone. Is it really being stuck? Or is it anchoring myself to the rock of Same-ness in order to assess the world?

We interpret these feelings in different ways depending on how much "training" in the NT world we have had. A lot of NT training and anything associated with ASD is bad ("freezing" instead of "safe").

What if we started to interpret our behaviour in words and ideas that are good? That's it is who we are and not bad at all, but worth engaging in and defending?

I bet the whole conversation would change.
 
I did not like this much. Even though he is Aspie, it seems he is putting a negative spin on Aspie Phenomena...
Interesting. You make some great points there.

As far as I can tell it's underestimated how much more likely it is to paint Asperger's with a wide negative brush without understanding that it often (maybe most often?) is a sum of some obstacles in balance with strengths with which NT's typically struggle.
 
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Many of are are familiar with this phenomenon and have either not put it into words or know it by a different name. I've always referred to it as "functional inertia" - being stuck and unable to do what is necessary even if you know what the right course of action is.
I've been thinking about this and I think I agree with you. I still haven't had the chance to dig into it much, but the freeze loop as described doesn't really quite fit what I think I'm trying to fit it to unless you water each phase down to it's most subtle level possible.

I think it's merely "related but different". The term "functional inertia" does indeed seem to be more accurate for what I'm pondering. For what I'm specifically considering, it's not really a freezing, but more like a stutter maybe. I just have to go off and regroup for a while before making the next step. (caution - revelation incoming) It's as if I have to visualize the next repetitive pattern of behavior (the next step) and etch it into my mind before I can then materialize it from my mind into the real world.

In my case through the progression of some project, if things clip along unchanged I could just about continue all day, but once the momentum gets disturbed (i.e. inertia requires a direction change) then I struggle very hard to dive into the next task (can't function). I have to circle the next step through my head several times before I feel "ready" to just do it. It's frustrating because often that next step can be much simpler than the previous. I usually know exactly what to do for the next step and it may be very simple. But it's the change that stops it in its tracks.

The usefulness of knowing Asperger's causes this is that I can see what has been happening now and maybe I can take steps to lessen it at least a little. Before I just chalked it up to something like "dammit, now I have to dig this saw out and find that one square I need and take a couple measurements - then hell with it I'll get a sip of water... I want a break". I just figured that's the way it goes. I don't think it has to, at least not nearly as often.

I'm always a little wary of videos on autism which invite people to "take our course in..." or "come to our seminar on..." because they are clearly advertisements, however this one had much better content than most of that nature.
Yeah I'm with ya there brother! That's always a big deflator for me. I quit watching TV about a year ago simply because I just HATE that it's plastered wall-to-wall with commercials. Being away from it I see the cheeziness of it all from a mile away now. Either present the content or beg for money, but don't try to do both because it lessens the impact of either IMO. Certainly in my mind it lessens any likelihood of sincerity. Anyway, I bet there are a ton of us singing this song.
 
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