My Daughter Possibly on the Spectrum

[Butterfly-ink210]

My daughter is 12 and in 7th grade. In the past 8 years, she has made 2 friends. She had been best friends with a girl she met in K4 and the other is a neighborhood boy that she grew up with.

When she was younger, she participated in classes, camps, piano lessons, soccer, volleyball, swimming, etc...and she is willing to try new things. She is very shy and has a hard time starting a conversation with someone she doesn't know. It seems she doesn't know what to say, even though we give her suggestions.

Her communication with family is minimal. She answers questions with yes or no. She doesn't ask them questions or want to continue the conversation. To avoid embarrassment, we would answer questions for her, but we stopped doing that.

In class, she is not afraid to speak up, but in group projects, she would rather do the work with her best friend. This friend is very outgoing and makes friends very easily. I think my daughter gets jealous when she has to compete with others for her attention.

My daughter is very smart, straight A student, very conscientious and takes her work very seriously, sometimes to the point of perfectionism. She memorizes facts quickly and is able to learn in 1-2 repetitions. Her best friend is very academically challenged and borders on learning-disabled.

She always has to have the tags removed from clothing. She wears the same clothes over and over. She has never liked taking a bath or showers. When she was 4-5 years old, she would fall down on the floor on purpose. She would never be really excited about anything. She opened presents very slowly and thought about each present and how to respond. She had meltdowns, crying for an hour or more.

In the past two years, we have noticed a lack of empathy. If I am sick or injured, she tells me to stop being a baby and deal with it. When I cry in front of her, she is uncomfortable. She didn't cry at her grandpa's funeral. She almost never cries. Having a two way conversation with her is difficult. I do most of the talking and if I ask a question, her response is either I don't know or I don't care. She pretends to forget what I just said.

She has never been s touchy-feely person. If you touch her without warning, she gets upset. She doesn't like hugging me, but she does hug my husband. She is very attached to our dog and has lots of stuffed animals and beanie boos.

I have suspected high functioning autism in the past, but being in the friendship with the male I mentioned in a previous post has made me take notice of the parallels between the two.

She hasn't been tested. I am unsure where to begin--pediatrician or a therapist she has gone to several times for low self esteem.

I am hoping to find good information here.

 

[Warmheart]

Start by telephoning the neurology Department of a large city hospital. Ask if they have a *neuropsych department* which does testing for ASD, ADHD, etc. Get the name of someone who does this testing. Find out how long the wait to get tested is. Expect a four month wait. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Next, see your child’s primary care pediatrician. Explain your concerns. *Request a referral for neuropsych testing*.

When the months pass and your child gets tested, results usually come in about 2 weeks or so.

Next, if there is an ASD diagnosis, you can return to your primary care pediatrician, requesting a referral to a Developmental pediatrician.

With diagnosis, you find an agency to support your child. The Arc, for example, has chapters in pretty much each state of the US. They help advocate for your child to have an IEP or 504 Plan, accommodations to make school smoother for her.
You can even advocate to build in social supports for her into her IEP.

There are also PACs, parent advisory councils, in many suburban areas in the US. They help link you up with ASD-savvy therapists in your area such as speech, OT, etc. Even verbal kids use an SLP (speech and language pathologist), as it can be hard to express things. You can find a PAC by ringing the school’s special ed Department. PACs are great for parent support, too.

Now for my opinion: If everything flows and she is diagnosed, you do not need to rush to get her therapy at anyone else’s say-so. You get to decide if she needs services, and if she does, which ones she needs. Do not let anyone push you, guilt you, scare you into getting services. Most importantly, be sure any therapies are relationship-based, and not ABA. ABA very often = PTSD. Granted, calling some more respectful therapies “ABA” allows insurance to be billed. Do your due diligence in researching any therapies. Run from “discreet trial,” that’s another term for ABA. Look instead for “DIR,” “Floortime,” “SCERTS,” or “Denver Model.” These Models all respect the person while respectfully teaching usable life skills she can use for greater autonomy.

Best success!

PS— If you’re worried about her having an ASD label, don’t worry. Without a label, we can be judged. With a label, we can be supported. Supports and accommodations don’t make us wimpy, they allow us to go farther than we could have otherwise.

 

[Suzanne]

lack of empathy.

Just to correct you. She lacks SYMPATHY.

Also, perhaps the reasons she does not like hugging you, is she senses you are treacheous to her father and plus to her.

She certainly does seem to be on the spectrum, but due to her age, you have to ask her if she wants to persue a diagnosis.

 

[Jana Delaney]

She is very shy and has a hard time starting a conversation with someone she doesn't know. It seems she doesn't know what to say, even though we give her suggestions.

I can relate to this. I thought about it for a long time and eventually figured out that it's because most people have nothing remotely interesting to say, and are not interested in talking about anything remotely interesting. We call those people 'normal'. Some people will just naturally fall back from what passes for 'normal' conversation, i.e. television, newspapers, football, alcohol or other equally asinine nonsense. Be glad she sucks at this. It proves she isn't brain dead.

Her communication with family is minimal. She answers questions with yes or no.

Wow, how maladaptive.

She doesn't ask them questions or want to continue the conversation. To avoid embarrassment, we would answer questions for her, but we stopped doing that.

Yeah, in those situations I used to think that there was something 'wrong' with people who behaved in that way, people like myself. Then I realised, once again, it's because most people just don't really say anything that interesting, and most autistic people like 'interesting'. I don't think that's a generalisation either. I must say, answering questions for someone is incredibly dehumanising. If she doesn't want to answer, she doesn't have to. Her choice. It isn't hurting anyone, despite what 'normal' people might say. Your embarrassment is your problem, completely self-generated. I smell groupthink.

In class, she is not afraid to speak up, but in group projects, she would rather do the work with her best friend. This friend is very outgoing and makes friends very easily. I think my daughter gets jealous when she has to compete with others for her attention.

This is the point at which massive alarm bells start to ring for me. A Mother who attributes those kind of motives to her own offspring, i.e. jealousy, especially to strangers on the Internet, has some issues which need addressing. It isn't normal or healthy for someone to accuse their own offspring of being jealous of their friends. No, it REALLY isn't.

My daughter is very smart, straight A student, very conscientious and takes her work very seriously, sometimes to the point of perfectionism. She memorizes facts quickly and is able to learn in 1-2 repetitions. Her best friend is very academically challenged and borders on learning-disabled.

Odd. A moment ago you were accusing your daughter of being 'jealous'. The child you describe in this paragraph sounds like a bright, gifted child. I detect anomalies.

She always has to have the tags removed from clothing. She wears the same clothes over and over. She has never liked taking a bath or showers. When she was 4-5 years old, she would fall down on the floor on purpose. She would never be really excited about anything. She opened presents very slowly and thought about each present and how to respond. She had meltdowns, crying for an hour or more.

Just to clarify, this is your own child you are talking about, yes? It's just that, based on the way you have written this paragraph, you kind of come across as a stereotypical teenage girl, talking about another teenage girl behind her back. Think 'Mean Girls', starring Lindsey Lohan. THIS IS YOUR CHILD you are talking about. Accusing your own child of stuff like jealousy and falling down on the floor on purpose is downright disturbing. You interpreted it as being on purpose. Also, is thinking about 'how to respond' to presents a negative thing? Also, and perhaps I am the only person who has noticed this, but in the paragraph directly above, you mention her having meltdowns, crying for an hour or more, and in the paragraph directly below, you state that she 'almost never cries'. Something about this story, or at the very least, the way you are telling it, doesn't add up. Why did her attitude to crying do a complete about turn, huh? I'd like to hear an explanation for that.

In the past two years, we have noticed a lack of empathy.

In yourself? Yeah, this post reeks of it. In your daughter? Hmm... probably not.

If I am sick or injured, she tells me to stop being a baby and deal with it. When I cry in front of her, she is uncomfortable.

You are the parent, she is the child. You are responsible for HER feelings, not the other way around!

She didn't cry at her grandpa's funeral. She almost never cries.

And yet, earlier in this post, you were complaining about meltdowns. Something isn't adding up here.

Having a two way conversation with her is difficult. I do most of the talking and if I ask a question, her response is either I don't know or I don't care. She pretends to forget what I just said.

This is hilarious. If I had a dollar for every time I'd heard a non-autistic person attribute deceit to an autistic person I'd be enormously wealthy. She's throwing herself on the floor. She's pretending not to hear you. Psychological projection, again. Virtually everything I hear any non-autistic parent say about their autistic offspring is.

She has never been s touchy-feely person. If you touch her without warning, she gets upset.

So don't touch her without warning.

She doesn't like hugging me, but she does hug my husband. She is very attached to our dog

You just said she wasn't a touchy feely person! So she can hug your husband, and your dog, but not you. Does anyone else see the picture which is coming through loud and clear, or is it just me?

I have suspected high functioning autism in the past, but being in the friendship with the male I mentioned in a previous post has made me take notice of the parallels between the two.

There wasn't one autistic trait mentioned in the post about the married man you were flirting with. Not one. Just for the record.

She hasn't been tested. I am unsure where to begin--pediatrician or a therapist she has gone to several times for low self esteem.

Well, she has a Mother who has almost nothing good to say about her, so... yeah, a therapist sounds appropriate. And - probably for more than just her. That isn't an insult either, btw. There isn't a human being on the planet who wouldn't benefit from therapy.

I am hoping to find good information here.

You have. And I have just done you an enormous kindness.

 

[Major Tom]

She sounds a lot like I was growing up, minus the straight A student.(I only got As in subjects that interested me). Coming here is a good start in getting the aid she needs. Warmheart had some great advice as far as getting her diagnosed, as usual. If you follow those steps within a year or so I'd imagine you should be able to get a formal diagnosis, and things should start falling into place.

 

[Jana Delaney]

ithin a year or so I'd imagine you should be able to get a formal diagnosis, and things should start falling into place.

Autistic people can learn how to read between the lines. I know for a fact they can, because I never used to, and now I do.

Diagnostic labels do not protect people from psychological abuse, in fact, in many cases, they magnetise it. It is not normal for any parent to heap criticism on their own offspring to complete strangers. I'm sorry if you think it is. Thankfully, I am not one of these Autistic people who has successfully learned the language of self-hate, or I might choose to identify with the crap we are all told about ourselves. Re-read the original post. It is not a normal or healthy way for a parent to talk about their own child. That kind of negative rhetoric occurs when parents are unable to view their child as, and treat them like, complete extensions of themselves, i.e. because their child is 'different'.

 

[Major Tom]

Autistic people can learn how to read between the lines. I know for a fact they can, because I never used to, and now I do.

Diagnostic labels do not protect people from psychological abuse, in fact, in many cases, they magnetise it. It is not normal for any parent to heap criticism on their own offspring to complete strangers. I'm sorry if you think it is. Thankfully, I am not one of these Autistic people who has been taught the language of self-hate, or I might choose to identify with the crap we are all told about ourselves. Re-read the original post. It is not a normal or healthy way for a parent to talk about their own child. That kind of negative rhetoric occurs when parents are unable to view their child as, and treat them like, complete extensions of themselves, i.e. because their child is 'different'.

I am not one to attack others for precieved errors in thought.. Just because I feel a certain way does not make it correct.

 

[Jana Delaney]

I am not one to attack others for precieved errors in thought.. Just because I feel a certain way does not make it correct.

Do you believe it is normal, in the 'psychologically healthy' sense, for a Mother to heap criticism on her own child to people she doesn't even know?

 

[Warmheart]

The OP came here seeking help for her daughter. This mother is learning. We are all learning. This is a good opportunity to be supportive.

 

[Jana Delaney]

The OP came here seeking help for her daughter. This mother is learning. We are all learning. This is a good opportunity to be supportive.

Correct, we are all learning. I merely chose to accelerate that process to a much faster speed than anyone else in the thread. Telling someone to offer their child unconditional love is supportive. To say otherwise is insane. And so, I shall repeat my question - and hopefully someone will have the common decency to answer it this time:

Do you believe it is normal, in the 'psychologically healthy' sense, for a Mother to heap criticism on her own child to people she doesn't even know?

 

[Warmheart]

@Jana Delaney , nothing the OP has said strikes me as such.

 

[Butterfly-ink210]

I am looking for answers at this point. My child had meltdowns at age 4-5. She is 12 now. Hope that fact clears up any confusion. Relatives and friends have mentioned this to me as a reason for her behaviors. I don't consider my list of concerns as a "bitching about my kid rant".

I most certainly did not expect my post to be analyzed piece by piece, but, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it was read, as such.

Perhaps it is normal behavior, perhaps not. The only "rant" I am interested in at this point is to help my daughter to be the best person she can be.

 

[Warmheart]

Butterfly Ink, I’m glad you’re here.

 

[Jana Delaney]

@Warmheart, you have once again avoided answering a direct question with a direct answer, and instead responded with a deliberately ambiguous statement. What do you mean, "nothing the OP has said strikes you as such?" Are you suggesting that the original post did not demonstrate clearly a Mother criticizing her own child? Very well then, I shall remind you:

Her communication with family is minimal. She answers questions with yes or no. She doesn't ask them questions or want to continue the conversation. To avoid embarrassment, we would answer questions for her, but we stopped doing that.

I think my daughter gets jealous when she has to compete

She wears the same clothes over and over. She has never liked taking a bath or showers. When she was 4-5 years old, she would fall down on the floor on purpose. She would never be really excited about anything... She had meltdowns, crying for an hour or more.

In the past two years, we have noticed a lack of empathy. If I am sick or injured, she tells me to stop being a baby and deal with it. When I cry in front of her, she is uncomfortable. She didn't cry at her grandpa's funeral. She almost never cries. Having a two way conversation with her is difficult. I do most of the talking and if I ask a question, her response is either I don't know or I don't care. She pretends to forget what I just said.

She has never been s touchy-feely person. If you touch her without warning, she gets upset. She doesn't like hugging me

Now, having read all of that, I now have two questions for you.

1.) Is this, or is this not criticism?

and my original question:

2.) Do you believe it is normal, in the 'psychologically healthy' sense, for a Mother to heap criticism on her own child to people she doesn't even know?

And, as regards to the original poster, the way to help your daughter be the 'best person she can be', as everyone who has participated in this thread knows fine and well, is to love her unconditionally.

 

[Major Tom]

I don't see any criticism here, except what you are heaping on Jana. All I saw was a concerned mother looking for help and getting attacked for it. That is my honest opinion, and I am discontinuing watching this thread, because YOUR negativity is bothering me.

 

[Jana Delaney]

I don't see any criticism here, except what you are heaping on Jana. All I saw was a concerned mother looking for help and getting attacked for it. That is my honest opinion, and I am discontinuing watching this thread, because YOUR negativity is bothering me.

No, you don't get to tell me me that pointing out the truth is negative. That is YOUR problem. If it takes me being banned from this forum to draw attention to the psychological abuse that atypical people have to endure on this planet, then I'll do it, but you don't get to label somebody speaking the truth as negative.

 

[Jana Delaney]

I don't see any criticism here

This is laughable.

 

[Nitro]

 

[Voltaic]

The OP came here seeking help for her daughter. This mother is learning. We are all learning. This is a good opportunity to be supportive.

She is definitely learning something...

 

[Bolletje]

@Butterfly-ink210 I think it's good that you've come here to learn.
I think it's best not to assume motives your daughter has for her behavior, you might be completely off. Instead, you could try asking your daughter why she does specific things.

Pursuing a diagnosis sounds like a good idea. In the meantime, try to think about how you can make compromises to keep you both happy. She doesn't want to be hugged or touched by you? Don't touch or hug her. If she doesn't want to engage in small talk with family members, don't do the talking for her (it's a good thing you stopped answering for her).

Don't emphasize to your daughter how different she is from others, and from how you'd expect her to behave: chances are huge she already knows she's different and feels isolated and a failure for it.

Do make house rules that should be followed by everyone living under your roof: preferably print those out, laminate them and put them up in a visible place.