Melatonin

[jamse37]

Hi all

After another appointment about my three year old melatonin has been prescribed for sleep.
Now I am straight away there is no way I am giving my three year old knock out drugs

Am I right not to?

Last night for example she finally went to sleep at 01.15am (I am with her the whole time ) then I was cuddling her to stay asleep until 06.00am when I get up for work.

Now this is quite a regular thing and doesn't really worry me as my body is used to little sleep
Just wondered if anyone had used melatonin or agrees or disagrees to me not using it
It makes no difference to my little one if she has much sleep or not she has always been like it and just doesn't seem to need it

Thank you in advance

 

[ZackSkylar101]

I can't say much from experience, as I have no experience around this, but I have studied a little bit about melatonin.

Melatonin is not a 'knock out' drug. Melatonin is more of a circadian rhythm modulator. Circadian rhythms are natural rhythms that we go through in a daily basis (the idea that we feel more wakeful at one time and less at another and our bodies follow patterns relating to this throughout the day, an example of this being our respiration rate and bringing in more carbon dioxide at one point to make us more able to sleep). Sometimes these cycles do not function correctly, and they go out of sync, so people can feel more wakeful at times when they are meant to be asleep. Melatonin medication can increase the levels of the compound and so may make these cycles easier to achieve and so give the ability to sleep. It will not force a person to sleep, but more give them the opportunity to do so.

As I said, I don't have any experience with it so this may not be the best advice, but from a medication point of view I just wanted to clarify that it is not a drug that will 'knock them out' (like a benzodiazepine or a Z-drug), rather a mechanism for modulating a biological pathway that is normally active inside of the body. Hope this is in some way helpful!

 

[jamse37]

I can't say much from experience, as I have no experience around this, but I have studied a little bit about melatonin.

Melatonin is not a 'knock out' drug. Melatonin is more of a circadian rhythm modulator. Circadian rhythms are natural rhythms that we go through in a daily basis (the idea that we feel more wakeful at one time and less at another and our bodies follow patterns relating to this throughout the day, an example of this being our respiration rate and bringing in more carbon dioxide at one point to make us more able to sleep). Sometimes these cycles do not function correctly, and they go out of sync, so people can feel more wakeful at times when they are meant to be asleep. Melatonin medication can increase the levels of the compound and so may make these cycles easier to achieve and so give the ability to sleep. It will not force a person to sleep, but more give them the opportunity to do so.

As I said, I don't have any experience with it so this may not be the best advice, but from a medication point of view I just wanted to clarify that it is not a drug that will 'knock them out' (like a benzodiazepine or a Z-drug), rather a mechanism for modulating a biological pathway that is normally active inside of the body. Hope this is in some way helpful!

That is very helpful indeed
Thank you

 

[square_peg]

I agree with the above post re melatonin not being a knock out drug but being related to circadian rhythm. There are three things that tend to govern sleep:
1. Sleep homeostasis (how sleepy or awake we feel)
2. Our body core temperature
3. Melatonin - which our bodies naturally produce
Our bodies start producing melatonin early in the evening which helps to make us sleepy so we go to sleep and come morning we've stopped producing it.
The drug melatonin that is prescribed is a synthetic form of the melatonin that we naturally produce. It's not a knock out drug. It just gives us more of what we naturally produce.
I suffer from insomnia and have tried other things but find melatonin is a gentle way of going to sleep.
It's definitely very different to benzo's which are sedatives. Melatonin is not a sedative. It would just give your son more of what he naturally produces.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Melatonin is naturally produced by the body.
As a rule, it is not advisable to give it to young children. This is because, natural or not, too much of a good thing is always bad. Too much of a natural thing is bad. Same rule goes for nutrition-overdoses of necessary vitamins or minerals, something like iron, for instance, are dangerous.
However, in your daughter's case, it might be that she doesn't produce the normal amount. In that case, giving her melatonin might be simply giving her body the amount that other little kid's bodies already have.
My opinion would be to follow the advice of a trustworthy physician. Since you say it was prescribed after an appointment, it sounds like you're already getting that advice.

 

[DogwoodTree]

You might also, in addition to following the doctor's advice about melatonin (which my mom also uses, and she's not one for being dependent on medications for anything, either), perhaps try to get your daughter into bright sunshine as often as possible during the day, then darken the house in the evening starting a couple of hours before bedtime.

I know sunshine can be harder to come by this time of year in the northern hemisphere, but even 15-30 min a day can help regulate her biological clock, especially if it's at the same time every day, and her face and as much skin as possible are directly exposed to the sunlight (e.g., not wearing sunglasses).

On the flip side, having bright lights on in the house or watching anything on a screen (like TV or a computer) within a couple of hours of bedtime can disrupt a sensitive person's daily rhythms of sleep. Quiet the house down as bedtime approaches, no TV or computer screens, dim the lights as much as possible, maybe play some quiet music that helps her settle (but not if it irritates her). A warm (but not hot) bath can help, too, and maybe even lavendar soap or lotion (lavendar helps the body relax).

Keep to a specific routine that signals to her body that it's almost time to sleep. A bedtime routine and maybe a snuggly comfort-toy, like a soft blanket, can help, too. These are all things we've done at various times with our kids to help them get to sleep more easily. We really struggled with each of our 4 kids until we got them settled into these routines. We've found that white noise in their bedrooms helps a lot, too, but I understand that can be irritating to some people, so just see how she responds to it.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Last night for example she finally went to sleep at 01.15am (I am with her the whole time ) then I was cuddling her to stay asleep until 06.00am when I get up for work.

BTW, does anyone know of an award out there for heroic dads?

 

[Grumpy Cat]

You can't get hooked on melatonin. However, I used to take it and I had to quit. For women, melatonin helps to regulate their menstrual cycles. What happened to me was I was taking it every night for awhile and my periods became very erratic and extremely heavy. I actually took melatonin for several years because I slept days and worked nights. The side effects for me got bad and my periods have never went back to being normal like they were. (I used to be like clockwork). ANYWAY, I'm used to talking about stuff like that because I'm Grumpy Cat nurse. I keep thinking it's not a good idea to give it to a child like a 3 yr old. Not enough is known about melatonin. When I was looking stuff up online during my monthly "problem", I found out that melatonin was being tested in Europe as a birth control med. It does say on WEB MD that it is UNSAFE during pregnancy and it makes it more difficult for one to become pregnant. It is a hormone - those Europeans were on to something testing it for birth control - interesting. I would say DO NOT give it to her. Read Web MD under side effects. It is also saying it causes heavy bleeding (like with me) and could cause problems with development during adolescents because of hormones. But that is my opinion. Follow up with your doctor and make your own decision. Do some research as well.

 

[wyverary]

Melatonin, just like most other "supplements," is still a drug. I know this experience is very rare, but when I take it, I wind up thrashing about in the bed and screaming bloody murder. So, as with anything else, use caution and be aware that there is the possibility (however slight) that one could react badly.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Melatonin, just like most other "supplements," is still a drug. I know this experience is very rare, but when I take it, I wind up thrashing about in the bed and screaming bloody murder. So, as with anything else, use caution and be aware that there is the possibility (however slight) that one could react badly.

I agree. Also when patients were admitted to the hospital and also before surgery, the doctor wanted to know all herbs and supplements being taken. They also would not let the patient take herbs or supplements during their stay in the hospital. Thing is, they would instead give ambien for sleep which is probably worse. (especially for oldies)

 

[wyverary]

I agree. Also when patients were admitted to the hospital and also before surgery, the doctor wanted to know all herbs and supplements being taken. They also would not let the patient take herbs or supplements during their stay in the hospital. Thing is, they would instead give ambien for sleep which is probably worse. (especially for oldies)

Damn! Yes, Ambien is scary stuff (speaking from experience here)! Perhaps their rationale is that it's much easier to know exactly what is in a prescription drug than to know what is in some supplement bottle (as prescription drugs are highly regulated, whereas supplement manufacturers experience almost no regulatory oversight).

 

[Ste11aeres]

I just did a quick internet search. Of course, I found conflicting opinions on this. However, those I found which supported melatonin for children with ASD, tended to be on sites that were far more reputable and trustworthy than those on which I found articles which were unequivocally against melatonin.

Is melatonin safe for children on the autism spectrum with sleep issues?

Melatonin Helps Autistic Kids Sleep
Even this last article, which cautions against giving melatonin to children, specifies that, while it shouldn't be given to typical children, it can still be good for children with neurological differences such as ASD.
Melatonin no 'magic pill' for getting healthy kids to sleep - Health - CBC News

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I understand what you're saying. WebMD also said it could be used for children with AS. For me, I just wouldn't be comfortable giving a child something that isn't fully understood and isn't FDA regulated (not that that means a whole lot either!) You may laugh, but in my own experience of being a cat mom, the vet wanted to put Waldo on some Xanax because he has an anxiety disorder. I was totally against any of that - or Prozac either, which they also said could be done. I just don't like putting kids or animals on drugs (even Ritalin). Now once someone becomes a teenager (after all growth has taken place) then I think they should be able to have some say in what medications they might want to take. Now if a child actually has a real illness like seizures or diabetes then I do believe those should be treated. But any psych or sleep drugs or ADD drugs I'm just not sure. I have seen a lot of adults still taking ADD drugs which are then functioning as a speed pills.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I understand what you're saying. WebMD also said it could be used for children with AS. For me, I just wouldn't be comfortable giving a child something that isn't fully understood and isn't FDA regulated (not that that means a whole lot either!) You may laugh, but in my own experience of being a cat mom, the vet wanted to put Waldo on some Xanax because he has an anxiety disorder. I was totally against any of that - or Prozac either, which they also said could be done. I just don't like putting kids or animals on drugs (even Ritalin). Now once someone becomes a teenager (after all growth has taken place) then I think they should be able to have some say in what medications they might want to take. Now if a child actually has a real illness like seizures or diabetes then I do believe those should be treated. But any psych or sleep drugs or ADD drugs I'm just not sure. I have seen a lot of adults still taking ADD drugs which are then functioning as a speed pills.

I'm not disagreeing with you, since I definitely don't have the knowledge to be an authority on the subject. I'm just glad I don't have to make the decision.

 

[AsheSkyler]

How about some of the more "natural" sleep aids? Warm milk, a dark and quiet room smelling of lavender or other calming smell, and of course a set bedtime routine and schedule. Some people cannot part with a noisy box fan, like my parents and husband.

I have no experience with sleep aids, aside from cold/flu medicine. I give the kid what I think is necessary for congestion and/or pain, but barely take any myself.

 

[Ste11aeres]

How about some of the more "natural" sleep aids? Warm milk, a dark and quiet room smelling of lavender or other calming smell, and of course a set bedtime routine and schedule. Some people cannot part with a noisy box fan, like my parents and husband.

I have no experience with sleep aids, aside from cold/flu medicine. I give the kid what I think is necessary for congestion and/or pain, but barely take any myself.

From what he's written, now and in the past, I think they are pretty good about such sleep aids.

 

[jamse37]

Thank you everyone

A few more things

Because of sensory issues she can't go in the sun without sunglasses
Baths make her hyper again sensory
We always do the same bedtime routine
We can't darken the room for meltdown( real fear of dark/sleep)
Warm milk. She drinks gallons of this stuff

I just don't like the thought of giving her something to make her sleep natural or not And as I am writing this I am thinking of the obvious that she has answered my question for me.
She doesn't eat so there is no way she will take a tablet.

Seriously as long as she seems on with her little sleep I will probably stick with how we are. Ok I am a little tired sometimes but that's what everyone dies for isn't it? To sleep?

 

[jamse37]

I just did a quick internet search. Of course, I found conflicting opinions on this. However, those I found which supported melatonin for children with ASD, tended to be on sites that were far more reputable and trustworthy than those on which I found articles which were unequivocally against melatonin.

Is melatonin safe for children on the autism spectrum with sleep issues?

Melatonin Helps Autistic Kids Sleep
Even this last article, which cautions against giving melatonin to children, specifies that, while it shouldn't be given to typical children, it can still be good for children with neurological differences such as ASD.
Melatonin no 'magic pill' for getting healthy kids to sleep - Health - CBC News

Sorry I just read this and had a little chuckle to myself
' the average time to fall asleep fell from 38 minutes to 24 minutes'

38 minutes?? Just think how much that average would go up if they used my daughter in their study.

 

[square_peg]

Sorry I just read this and had a little chuckle to myself
' the average time to fall asleep fell from 38 minutes to 24 minutes'

38 minutes?? Just think how much that average would go up if they used my daughter in their study.

Given she would be 1 in presumably a large-ish sample I don't think it would affect the average that much.

Best of luck with your daughter. I hope you both get some good rest very soon.

 

[square_peg]

Also I understand giving anyone, yet along a young child, medication of any sort is not ideal perhaps melatonin as a sleep aid is worth a try.

If your doctor has recommended it and there are reputable studies supporting its use, and given you are limited by other sleep aids due to sensory issues, perhaps it's worth a shot? Maybe a better sleep routine (i.e. More sleep) might make other aspects of life easier? I know I struggle quite badly when I am sleep deprived.