Looking for advice on autistic dad leaving hospital before my son could see a doctor

[GinaGee]

Hi, I am Gina. Looking forward to advice and support. Hello everyone.

 

[GinaGee]

My son is 13 and his dad decided he could not cope with waiting for my son to get to see a doctor when my son had a rash that would not go down with a glass test. My ex did not call me but kept complaining about how long it was to see a doctor and decided he needed to go home to get sleep because he is a lorry driver even thought he had the next day off work. We are divorced so we don't live together. He called me 15 minutes after leaving the hospital to say "I've made a decision and you are not going to like it". I called the hospital and they told me to go back with my son. My son found it so traumatic that he now has mental health problems and is seeing a child psychiatrist. The dad will not apologise. I just need to know how much of this is autism because I am seriously thinking this is more than autism. Any dads out there please comment because I don't want to be left thinking autistic people are not able to cope with fatherhood in this way. This is a real struggle for me as a single mum. My child has not been able to go to school and felt powerless and lonely and feared for his life in case he had meningitis. He didn't but his dad decided the rash had not got any worse but despite his older son from another marriage saying it could be foot and mouth or impetigo he still decided to leave the hospital because he hated the noise, the wait and said he needed to sleep in case he could not drive safely back. But he didn't ring me, the mum at any point. I don't really understand autism to this degree. Do autistic people think this is so okay they don't apologise and then not bother to message the mum to see if their son is okay? This happened in August and the dad won't accept any responsibility although he does say he feels guilty.

 

[Rodafina]

He called me 15 minutes after leaving the hospital to say "I've made a decision and you are not going to like it".

But he didn't ring me, the mum at any point.

I'm confused by your story. He did call you or didn't call you?

---

I think you can be sure that autism alone does not cause someone to be totally irresponsible with their child and abandon them at the hospital because they are tired and overwhelmed.

I would look to other explanations for the behavior you described.

 

[GinaGee]

I'm confused by your story. He did call you or didn't call you?

---

You can be very sure that autism alone does not cause someone to be totally irresponsible with their child and abandon them at the hospital because they are tired.

I would look to other explanations for the behavior you described.

He did not call. He went through triage and then he went with my son to the next part of the hospital. He kept worrying about his body clock and used the excuse of being a lorry driver and the training saying that drivers need their sleep even though he had the next day off work. He said he would take my son home, get some sleep and then drive back again a few hours later. However, if it had been meningitis that left my son feeling totally overwhelmed and scared. He did not ring me. He made what he called an "executive decision" to leave. He then drove 15 minutes towards home and then called me to say "I have made a decision and you are not going to like it. I have to get some sleep". If he had called me I would have asked him to stay there while I got a taxi to the hospital and swapped over looking after our son. That would have made much more sense because it wasn't even midnight. I think he might have not called me because he was playing mind games. He has a diagnosis for autism but I think autistic people are not this bad, surely. He complained about waiting times and noise from a film but did not explain to the staff at the hospital that he is autistic, he did not ask for the tv in the waiting room to be turned down (I did when I went back) he did not give my son any water or food, he did not talk to my son and he gave my son a book about a dead dog to read. He did not let my son use his mobile phone.

 

[Rodafina]

Your thread title includes the phrase,"...autistic dad leaving my son at hospital." Did your ex actually leave the child at the hospital? Or are you saying that your ex left the hospital with your child?

 

[GinaGee]

Oh yes, sorry, he decided to leave WITH my son after triage so he didn't wait for my son to see a doctor. I am not sure how I might edit that. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[GinaGee]

Your thread title includes the phrase,"...autistic dad leaving my son at hospital." Did your ex actually leave the child at the hospital? Or are you saying that your ex left the hospital with your child?

I just edited my thread title thank you.

 

[Rodafina]

@GinaGee

Thanks for the clarification. Surely less alarming that he did not leave your kid alone.

Hope your kid is doing better and heals from his illness and his experience.

 

[Hypnalis]

@GinaGee

1. Why was it so urgent that the process couldn't have been scheduled rather than handled by what sounds like an outpatient clinic or even A&E.
2. Meningitis is rare enough that it shouldn't be assumed without tangible evidence. What was that evidence?
3. Your husband left after triage. Had the hospital told him at that time that the rash wasn't serious / life threatening?
3. Did you tell the boy the symptoms were consistent with a very serious illness, or did that come from the hospital?
4. Why weren't you at the hospital? If it could have been serious, in a perfect world you would have been there.
5 If your son has had time to develop a trauma over this, and is now in therapy, there's a gap in the story. Kids don't like hospitals, but typically because they're impersonal and busy rather than hostile environments, and they have facilities for children.
Trauma over a single visit, even a long one, seems like an extreme response

 

[Neonatal RRT]

My son is 13 and his dad decided he could not cope with waiting for my son to get to see a doctor when my son had a rash that would not go down with a glass test. My ex did not call me but kept complaining about how long it was to see a doctor and decided he needed to go home to get sleep because he is a lorry driver even thought he had the next day off work. We are divorced so we don't live together. He called me 15 minutes after leaving the hospital to say "I've made a decision and you are not going to like it". I called the hospital and they told me to go back with my son. My son found it so traumatic that he now has mental health problems and is seeing a child psychiatrist. The dad will not apologise. I just need to know how much of this is autism because I am seriously thinking this is more than autism. Any dads out there please comment because I don't want to be left thinking autistic people are not able to cope with fatherhood in this way. This is a real struggle for me as a single mum. My child has not been able to go to school and felt powerless and lonely and feared for his life in case he had meningitis. He didn't but his dad decided the rash had not got any worse but despite his older son from another marriage saying it could be foot and mouth or impetigo he still decided to leave the hospital because he hated the noise, the wait and said he needed to sleep in case he could not drive safely back. But he didn't ring me, the mum at any point. I don't really understand autism to this degree. Do autistic people think this is so okay they don't apologise and then not bother to message the mum to see if their son is okay? This happened in August and the dad won't accept any responsibility although he does say he feels guilty.

1. Someone with an autism condition may have difficulties with context and the perspective of others. As such, you are giving YOUR perspective on the situation, but since we don't have HIS perspective, it is difficult to assess given your narrative. Since we don't have his perspective, it is difficult to say if his autism condition influenced his decision making.

2. Your son is 13 and having mental health problems because of this interaction? Seriously? Most 13 year olds would just roll their eyes and get angry at the behavior of their parents, like any teenager would. What you're describing seems a bit odd to me, so I have to ask, does your son have an underlying mental health condition that you haven't described?

3. Not apologizing. Hmmm. Depends upon the situation. I generally don't apologize for making decisions in which I have weighed the pros and cons. This is more male behavior rather than autistic behavior from what I understand. Potential or real emotional reactions from other people are not going to make me apologize or change my mind. Dumb mistakes, accidentally hurting someone, sure, I will apologize.

4. Sensory issues, especially in a stressful situation where there is a loss of control, like a hospital, I can see that being significant for someone with an autism condition. I happen to work in a huge metropolitan hospital intensive care unit in the US. We have, at times, 120+ sick infants on my unit, alone. I completely understand the environmental conditions. I've also been a patient in the emergency department and know how generally understaffed hospitals are, the waiting times, etc. It can be overwhelming. Parents can get really stressed out, angry, irritable, and parents are NEVER logical with their thinking when it comes to dealing with their sick child, especially when they don't have control of the situation. Parental reactions are typically instinctual, primal, and emotional.

5. Depending upon when he and your son arrived at the hospital, how long the wait was, etc. I can definitely see why concerns about sleep might influence decision making. I've been in emergency rooms with my own kids into the wee hours of the morning waiting and waiting. Draw blood, then wait an hour, another person comes in, then you wait another hour, do this, that, or the other thing, then wait for hours. Waits to even see a doctor can be hours, and by the time you either get admitted to the hospital or discharged from the emergency room, it can be 8-10 hours or more. It sucks. It's mentally exhausting and just a horrible experience, and this is coming from someone who understands what is going on behind the scenes and is going to be empathetic. Imagine someone how doesn't understand the inner workings of a hospital, I think that would be a horrible situation.

 

[Ivi]

Hi! I'm so sorry to hear that, for you and your son!
I'm not an autistic dad, but I'm an autistic mom, my daughter's father takes care of her because I can't take care of her (or myself). My daughter's father doesn't believe that autism exists, but we don't talk about it anymore.
I believe the issue could be due to autism. I believe that he didn't mean to cause harm, but surely I recognize he did, from your text. I always recognize if I cause harm myself. It's 100% unintentinal but it happens. Does he recognize he did cause harm, if you have talked about it with him? There are so many different ways in autism, that most people have no idea how we operate unintentionally sometimes (not even ourselves, we tend to be confused most of the time in this world). I'm not "high-functioning", but even those who get their diagnosis later in life because they are thought to be "high-functioning" due to their different skillsets, might function very low in some aspects of life, while functioning high in some others. So I'm not usually understood by either neurotypicals nor the "high-functioning" autistic people. They don't often believe in the other levels of autism, or "different faces of autism".

I have accidentally caused harm to my daugher by having a very bad meltdown in front of her. After that I didn't see her for a full year because I was so ashamed of myslef that I hoped her to find a better mom, and to forget about me. I know it doesn't typically work that way, but that's what I hoped for for a year. The meltdown was very bad, and due to sensory issues and constant changes of plans. However my daughter luckily is no longer disappointed with me (she had never expressed her disappointment though, I don't know why), nowadays she loves spending time with me, we just have to arrange the time so that it doesn't cause too much sensory overload or changes in plans. I was very relieved after I learned my daughter didn't get traumatized by my meltdown. I didn't mean to cause her any harm. I get confused very easily, and then I will ruminate for a long time (that time for a year).

I hope you can talk things through with the father of your son, and also with your son. Try to be as gentle as possible with both of them, of course, no matter how much negative feelings you propably have about this incident. Try to ask your son's father he believes it was about his autism. Do let him know that his son was traumatized, even if he didn't intent to cause it. Of course I don't know him or if it was about autism, then it's different if he did it all intentionally. Autistic people rarely want to cause harm to others intentionally, but we accidentally do sometimes.
I know it's difficult with us autistic people oftentimes. We might mute out, so if you can make the discussion with him as gentle and confortable as possible, so maybe he will not get too confused or feel like a complete failure, if that's what he easily feels like (I mean that I definitely do, I failed in motherhood, though I didn't plan to fail it). I really hope your son recovers! I feel very bad to hear about your son's trauma. I'm sure he will recover over time. At least when he will possibly understand more about autism, when he gets older.
I have heard people saying it was difficult with an autistic parent. I never knew that before I had my daughter. Luckily she is well taken care of and happy despite me being her mom. I hope she will grow up to learn more why her mom is how she is.

Sending much love to you and your son!

 

[mw2530]

I think autism may have played a role in his decision. Emergency rooms can be stressful and overstimulating places. With that being said, the dad seemed to make a logical decision in a stressful situation. It may have been wise for him to call and talk to you before up and leaving the emergency room. I guess we don't have the full background, but I'm not sure how things went from 0 to 100 so quickly. I am not too familiar with meningitis, but going to the ER for a rash does not seem like the appropriate place unless it was some sort of allergic reaction. I don't know how long he had the rash. Why do we suddenly assume a rash is a life threatening case of meningitis? The dad did have other legitimate concerns with getting enough sleep and considering his job responsibilities, even if he did have off the next day.

 

[GinaGee]

Thank you all for your replies. To be clear, my ex left the hospital without calling me and left it too late for me to get a cab to the hospital so we could swap places. That would have been the most common sense thing to do but instead he knew I would not like his decision to leave and said that when he rang me 15 minutes into the journey back home to say "I've made a decision and you are not going to like it".
I did not drive to the hospital because I cannot drive at night due to my eyesight but I don't care about paying to get to a hospital. When my son got home I put him straight in a cab and went back to the hospital after calling them to get their advice. Their advice was come back because we were just about to see your son. However, my ex is very tight with money and he would not opt to sleep at the hospital in a chair and pay for parking overnight. At no point did he offer my son the chance to speak to me, or offer my son a drink or to get some food. All the time they were there he talked about himself and how he needed to sleep. He was hoping that the cute eyes from my son would get them seen quicker when my son went up and asked three times how long it would be before they were seen. This was really because my son had said he was scared about going home but 'dad gave me that look that meant I could not say anything to him'.
My son said he felt powerless.
We have tried to get an apology out of his dad and my son's later description of it was 'I don't think dad is capable of a sincere apology'.

In the marriage there were so many things my ex seemed to do that were insidious. Like driving really near to the kerb on the passenger side when he knew it made me feel sick. He would get up and walk off if I didn't agree with him especially on dates. He would order me a drink I never drink even though I had asked for a specific drink on celebrator events. He started to walk in front of us on family walks all the time. When I was ill and going for walks he would walk ten paces in front of me. He left me at a party in London with no money and didn't text to see how I would get back to the hotel. He spoke to a barman for two hours on a date night at the bar and left me sitting on my own. He left me sobbing uncontrollably when I had give birth and needed slats on a bed because I was so much in pain and he just stared at me. That was a really bad day.

And, he can be really really charming with strangers for hours on end and leave his relatives who he hardly sees waiting for him to turn up and he practically ignores them.
He finds no problem in talking jovially with young waitresses or any blonde woman under 40.
He is fine when he wants something and can be very charming to get what he wants.
He didn't say anything when I said to him one day that he spoke to me in such a way that the only thing I could anticipate next was him hitting me.
When I first met him he took me to loud environments, dancing, roller-skating, city hotels and busy restaurants and then after the marriage he changed and was incredibly disagreeable and financially controlling. But I have read that autistic people can do a honeymoon period thing as masking and then the mask comes off later.

 

[Hypnalis]

But I have read that autistic people can do a honeymoon period thing as masking and then the mask comes off later.

This isn't an accurate description of what we call masking.

It can only have come from someone who has no idea about ASD, and made up a story based on the most common meaning of the word.

I suggest you take a close look at the "Dark Triad" (starting at wikipedia is fine).

Note that this isn't intended to comment on the rest of your OP or post #13. It's to open the possibility that your "cause and effect" theory about why your ex acts as he does action may be incorrect.

A case can be made that a common factor across the Dark Triad is an empathy deficit, combined with some one or more unhealthy and exploitative behaviors.

IMO you can make a case for (most, perhaps all) ADSs having an empathy deficit, but without the exploitative behaviors. Not fully understanding other people can cause inadvertent issues, even indirect harm (e.g. through avoidance). But "typical ASDs" don't harm others on purpose.

Back to that use of "masking". This kind of thing is a symptom of the kind of discussions that can happen on social media, where accuracy isn't always the objective.

If you've seen something elsewhere linking ASD and abuse it's almost certainly fiction.

Actual malicious control, with techniques like "Love bombing", manipulative rationing of attention and affection, deliberately inflicting psychological discomfort, etc are usually associated with narcissism.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I could autism, Both of use work one day I got a call my son and buddy ha been rough housing, son ended up with broken arm He was in emergency, I got home not worried after all he is in hospital made myself supper waited for wife to get home usually an hour after me she got home we immediately got into car drove to hospital I could have left earlier but did not see the urgency. Wife was frantic, to me no big deal just broken arm pick him up with cast.
Life goes on. Would have been pointless waiting in crowded emergency room.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Thank you all for your replies. To be clear, my ex left the hospital without calling me and left it too late for me to get a cab to the hospital so we could swap places. That would have been the most common sense thing to do but instead he knew I would not like his decision to leave and said that when he rang me 15 minutes into the journey back home to say "I've made a decision and you are not going to like it".
I did not drive to the hospital because I cannot drive at night due to my eyesight but I don't care about paying to get to a hospital. When my son got home I put him straight in a cab and went back to the hospital after calling them to get their advice. Their advice was come back because we were just about to see your son. However, my ex is very tight with money and he would not opt to sleep at the hospital in a chair and pay for parking overnight. At no point did he offer my son the chance to speak to me, or offer my son a drink or to get some food. All the time they were there he talked about himself and how he needed to sleep. He was hoping that the cute eyes from my son would get them seen quicker when my son went up and asked three times how long it would be before they were seen. This was really because my son had said he was scared about going home but 'dad gave me that look that meant I could not say anything to him'.
My son said he felt powerless.
We have tried to get an apology out of his dad and my son's later description of it was 'I don't think dad is capable of a sincere apology'.

In the marriage there were so many things my ex seemed to do that were insidious. Like driving really near to the kerb on the passenger side when he knew it made me feel sick. He would get up and walk off if I didn't agree with him especially on dates. He would order me a drink I never drink even though I had asked for a specific drink on celebrator events. He started to walk in front of us on family walks all the time. When I was ill and going for walks he would walk ten paces in front of me. He left me at a party in London with no money and didn't text to see how I would get back to the hotel. He spoke to a barman for two hours on a date night at the bar and left me sitting on my own. He left me sobbing uncontrollably when I had give birth and needed slats on a bed because I was so much in pain and he just stared at me. That was a really bad day.

And, he can be really really charming with strangers for hours on end and leave his relatives who he hardly sees waiting for him to turn up and he practically ignores them.
He finds no problem in talking jovially with young waitresses or any blonde woman under 40.
He is fine when he wants something and can be very charming to get what he wants.
He didn't say anything when I said to him one day that he spoke to me in such a way that the only thing I could anticipate next was him hitting me.
When I first met him he took me to loud environments, dancing, roller-skating, city hotels and busy restaurants and then after the marriage he changed and was incredibly disagreeable and financially controlling. But I have read that autistic people can do a honeymoon period thing as masking and then the mask comes off later.

I do not think you ex husband is one of us, another issue.

 

[Ivi]

Yeah, the intend to cause harm is definitely not an ASD trait. That also separates ASD diagnosis from the personality disorders. There are other problems involved if there is an intent behind causing harm to others. Autistic people may unintentionally cause harm due to the confusion of not understanding the neurotypical worldviews and due to the sensory issues etc., but the "Dark Triad Traits" are not at all part of autism. Some autistic people (children and adults) that I've known in my life have been the most caring towards others.
"Masking" to ASD persons means mostly trying to appear as a neurotypical publicly, due to the fear of being judged by neurotypicals for being "weird". It's very different type of masking than the "future faking" or other manipulation tactics that happen in certain personality disorders. In fact ASD people are quite bad at manipulation tactics because we tend to be overly honest (bad at lying) and many of us have the stereotypical strong sense of justice.

 

[GinaGee]

I could autism, Both of use work one day I got a call my son and buddy ha been rough housing, son ended up with broken arm He was in emergency, I got home not worried after all he is in hospital made myself supper waited for wife to get home usually an hour after me she got home we immediately got into car drove to hospital I could have left earlier but did not see the urgency. Wife was frantic, to me no big deal just broken arm pick him up with cast.
Life goes on. Would have been pointless waiting in crowded emergency room.

Thank you for your reply. How old was your son when this happened?

 

[GinaGee]

Yeah, the intend to cause harm is definitely not an ASD trait. That also separates ASD diagnosis from the personality disorders. There are other problems involved if there is an intent behind causing harm to others. Autistic people may unintentionally cause harm due to the confusion of not understanding the neurotypical worldviews and due to the sensory issues etc., but the "Dark Triad Traits" are not at all part of autism. Some autistic people (children and adults) that I've known in my life have been the most caring towards others.
"Masking" to ASD persons means mostly trying to appear as a neurotypical publicly, due to the fear of being judged by neurotypicals for being "weird". It's very different type of masking than the "future faking" or other manipulation tactics that happen in certain personality disorders. In fact ASD people are quite bad at manipulation tactics because we tend to be overly honest (bad at lying) and many of us have the stereotypical strong sense of justice.

Thank you. Yes, I have noticed that ASD people are bad at lying and have brought much comfort from that because I cannot stand dishonesty. That is why I get so confused at my ex being diagnosed as autistic but then being so passive aggressive and weird. IMO I do not see not ringing the mum as being autistic but rather an autistic person might think to call the mum and sort something out in a straight forward manner and not say "I've made a decision and you are not going to like it". I would imagine an autistic person just doing something and not thinking about whether someone else is going to like it or not. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[GinaGee]

I do not think you ex husband is one of us, another issue.

Wow. Thank you.