Lacking Understanding Leads To Persecution?

[Gomendosi]

Written on my phone so excuse me for being brief, I can elaborate later if necessary ; ]

(Disclaimer; this is a generalisation)

Lately I have started to feel as though lacking understanding and therefore seeking enlightenment is being construed as bothersome or unnecessary by people who assume that if you don't get it relatively quickly you are deliberately being vague or annoying for reasons of your own.
I find this frustrating because it makes people less inclined to make enquiries as it could be taken as challenging behaviour, whereby we then have to inadvertently lower the bar to let people get by with less knowledge than is otherwise ideal. This can apply to schools, work, forums or any and all interactions really.
What are your thoughts on these suppositions?

 

[Ylva]

Depth is often frowned upon. Speed is what people want.

 

[Christy]

Today I went to apply for unemployment assistance. I had previously checked online and found the website confusing so decided to go in person so I could talk to someone.

On entering and finally making it to the front of the line, I was told the process for applying is done online, so they can set me up on one of their computers. I explained I have been diagnosed as having aspergers, and wanted to talk to someone about the best pathway for me to take. I was again directed to the computers, and it was when the person with me became firm I needed to talk to someone that they then begrudgingly arranged that.

We spoke through the process and she answered a number of questions, upon which her computer apparently "locked up" and I was again directed to the computers to do it myself. I was introduced to the person overseeing the computers and she was to help me if I had any issues.

When I ran into problems on the computer I looked for the person meant to help me. She was directing any people entering to the correct place, and the longer I waited for her, the longer her line became. At this time my nerves became uncontrollable and I became so distressed I logged off the computer and left.

One of the things I was told was that I needed to get a medical certificate to say I have aspergers. I clarified that I would have to go back to the psychologist for that, and in my mind I was thinking, how will I pay for that?? I found out after I left that if I had asked the right question, they could have financially assisted. I feel like they have made it their mission to make the process so difficult that, even if you qualify, they don't have to help you.

I feel so distressed by the whole situation. Not only am I facing difficult circumstances, but i am not receiving the help to apply for assistance even when I expressly ask for it.

 

[King_Oni]

This hits so close to home it's not even funny anymore...

I find so many things in the "real world" so unneccesary vague and hard to comprehend that I need to ask for clarification every single time. Sometimes, if I'm filling in forms I feel the joke's on me and everyone but me is in on the joke by speaking some other language.

I know I'm not the only one with this though. Plenty of people have troubles understanding things which should be way, way more clear (forms that go through government channels for example) and I know at least some people (my parents) that, at their age, don't even bother with most stuff because it's way to confusing for them and it just gets them irate, something which I feel should not be the case at all (let alone when you're among the elderly and mentally not entirely there anymore; actual brain trauma, not just "that age thing").

Because of all this ambguity in many situations I've come to doing my own approach to much annoyance of the other parties involved. Whenever I have an interview with someone who is there to just make my situation a lot harder by being vague and trying to "abuse" the fact that I might not understand what they want, I'm bringing a dictionary and pen and paper. Yes, it makes up for a conversation as if you're wading through a swamp, I'm not going to get in trouble for my own misunderstanding, I'm sick of it. Of course it also means that I end up arguing that they are using the wrong words themselves... but honestly; if I can't rely on proper use of language by professionals who expect me to fill in forms and such correctly myself, what else is there?

And again I refer back to the fact that I feel everyone is in on the joke but me, considering the majority apparently is able to fill in everything without many issues. It's a handful of individuals that struggle...

I feel like they have made it their mission to make the process so difficult that, even if you qualify, they don't have to help you.

Very much this. The worst of it all is; I'm having a social worker I can rely on if I have serious issues like the one you've addressed in your post. And even she feels that these processes are utterly silly and hard for the average joe, let alone for someone who has a few other issues going on in terms of comprehension.

 

[Cali Cat]

Lately I have started to feel as though lacking understanding and therefore seeking enlightenment is being construed as bothersome or unnecessary by people who assume that if you don't get it relatively quickly you are deliberately being vague or annoying for reasons of your own.
I find this frustrating because it makes people less inclined to make enquiries as it could be taken as challenging behaviour, whereby we then have to inadvertently lower the bar to let people get by with less knowledge than is otherwise ideal. This can apply to schools, work, forums or any and all interactions really.
What are your thoughts on these suppositions?

Are you saying that asking too many questions annoys people who know the answers, so they make it hard to get the information one needs. This leads to uninformed people remaining ignorant and a subsequent need to make allowances for their ignorance?

 

[Gomendosi]

Are you saying that asking too many questions annoys people who know the answers, so they make it hard to get the information one needs. This leads to uninformed people remaining ignorant and a subsequent need to make allowances for their ignorance?

G’day, sort of, I mean, you see it everywhere these days, kids are progressed in school despite being behind in certain things like math’s or English, you see people embarrassed because they can’t understand the inflection English words are pronounced with by persons from another country. You see it in jobs where if you ask too much about things they begin to doubt you can even do the job, and if you lose your job the difficulty in getting benefits is woeful (As other posters have said).

It almost seems like you are supposed to be born with certain information imbedded in your brain and we Aspies had that part missing so we ask questions by default, but I now regularly see others not being able to make sure they are in full possession of the facts before they go ahead or are advanced. Don’t you?

 

[Judge]

I feel like they have made it their mission to make the process so difficult that, even if you qualify, they don't have to help you.

Yes. I have the impression of this being a dynamic of social welfare systems across the planet. That many bureaucrats operate on a premise of prejudice towards anyone who doesn't have a visually obvious condition which may impair them in some way.

When I worked in insurance I know we had similar protocols which bordered on being highly illegal. Nevertheless we were instructed to deny certain people insurance in any creative way we could muster. I have no reason to believe government doesn't operate in a similar manner over select issues.

Granted that fraud is fraud. It's understandable for government to be vigilant about it. However being paranoid to the point you deny people worthy of assistance isn't an answer either.

 

[Christy]

Yes. I have the impression of this being a dynamic of social welfare systems across the planet. That many bureaucrats operate on a premise of prejudice towards anyone who doesn't have a visually obvious condition which may impair them in some way.

I think it's worse than that though. I was visibly shaking and it was very evident in my voice how distressed I was. I told her the reason I'd received the diagnosis for Aspergers came after going to a psychologist for high anxiety.

The idea that "everything is done online anyway so why should they have to interact with you" is mean. I don't know their system. Why they expect me to read their website and just figure it out is rude in my opinion.

 

[Judge]

I think it's worse than that though. I was visibly shaking and it was very evident in my voice how distressed I was. I told her the reason I'd received the diagnosis for Aspergers came after going to a psychologist for high anxiety.

The idea that "everything is done online anyway so why should they have to interact with you" is mean. I don't know their system. Why they expect me to read their website and just figure it out is rude in my opinion.

True enough.

Apart from the "crapshoot" one encounters with both dedicated as well as utterly indifferent bureaucrats, there is also the aspect of policy to consider. Where yet another bureaucrat who never even considered autism issues drafted a protocol designed with only fiscal efficiency in mind. Where considerations of "mean" or "rude" simply don't exist. Likely to be completely unaware of the same government who crafted Australia's Disability Discrimination Act.

In America we refer to this as,"The left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing."

"But I was only following orders." <facepalm>

 

[apsie]

These days, when I'm dealing with customer services or bureaucrats, I always bring pen and paper.
I'll ask the names and position of the people I'm dealing with, and write them down.
Most of the time thats enough to make them "comply" and work with me instead of against.

Never be afraid to ask for a supervisor if some asshat behind a desk is being... an asshat.

The absolute worst kind of bureaucrats in Belgium can be found working at city halls across the country.
Not once have I been treated with respect there.
Ask them a question, chances are they will instantly look down on you and start being counterproductive. (in my experience)
I'm sure not all of them are like that, but I'm yet to meet someone helpfull there.

When I had to get my passport renewed in 2011, the clerk denied any and all pictures I brought. "to bright", "not bright enough", "wrong angle", "colors are off", "your hair is different", "your face is not centered".
I **** you not! I've heard them all.
It cost me 32 euros, because the clerkjerk decided to be a total dipshit.