Issues with Antidepressants

[Brian0787]

Hi All. This is my first post here. I really don't know where this subject belongs. I'm thinking maybe here but maybe it belongs somewhere else. Just to give a background but I have taken antidepressants since I was 13. In addition to my Autism Spectrum Disorder I was diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder, and Obsessive Compulusive Disorder by a Psychiatrist when I was 13. I was placed on an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) called Paxil (Paroxetine) and was on it for 22 years continuously.

Dosages varied from starting out on a 20 mg instant release pill to eventually growing to 60 mg instant release and then to a extended release pill. About a couple years ago it felt like Paxil "quit working". This apparently has been frequently reported for those who are on Antidpressants for a long period of time. I believe they call it the "Poop out" effect. I then switched to Prozac to get off Paxil (Paxil is horrible to get off due to withdrawal effects).

Prozac did not work very well for me with the side effects and I've tried some other antidepressants in the SSRI class (Lexapro, Zoloft). All had side effects that were intolerable (increased sweating, insomnia, stomach issues). I then tried some antidepressants on the SNRI (Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor) class (Cymbalta, Effexor) and those were intolerable due to side effects as well.

Does anyone else here struggle with taking antidepressants and sensitivity to side effects? I ended up returning to Paxil about a year ago because nothing else really worked. I did a Genetic test a couple months ago and found out that SNRI's are the most effective class for me. I talked to my Primary Care Doctor today and I am going to try to entirely get off antidepressants as they seem to be causing more side effects then benefits.

From the research I've done it seems like antidepressants are not always effective for those on the Autism Spectrum. Has anybody had similiar experiences with Antidepressants that would like to share? No issues if not either but just thought I would see if anyone had similar problems and issues Sorry this is so long!

 

[Rocco]

I tried antidepressants two different times in my life and the side effects were devastating to my physical and emotional health. The last time they tried 4 different kinds and my entire life fell apart worse than the simple depression they tried to treat. I will absolutely never try another anti depressant.
I also do not allow myself to give in to feelings of depression anymore and immediately take steps to change things when I feel it start to take up space in my mind.

 

[Brian0787]

I tried antidepressants two different times in my life and the side effects were devastating to my physical and emotional health. The last time they tried 4 different kinds and my entire life fell apart worse than the simple depression they tried to treat. I will absolutely never try another anti depressant.
I also do not allow myself to give in to feelings of depression anymore and immediately take steps to change things when I feel it start to take up space in my mind.

Thank you for sharing, Rocco! That feels like that's been very similar to my experience as well. I had held out some hope that maybe there was a medication that would maybe have some benefits but I just don't see it right now. I think when I was younger it did seem to help my OCD a bit and social anxiety but as time went on the benefit got less and less and the dosage had to increase until eventually it gave out. Not allowing the feelings and making changes when you start to feel the depression take space is a good idea. I appreciate you sharing!

 

[Jeff T]

Wellbutrin is in another class of 'antidepressants'. As with all drugs, some people have problems with it, while the majority seem to accept it well.

 

[saturnv]

I have been depressed off and on basically as long as I can remember. I took an SSRI as a teenager and had intolerable side effects. I have never tried antidepressants again. I have just tried to live with it as best I can. I think I have felt deep down that I deserve to be depressed.

More recently I read the book Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy. It has been useful for me. It explains how to use cognitive behavioral therapy exercises to improve depression symptoms. The main idea is that harmful negative thoughts lead to feeling bad. For example, the idea that someone can deserve depression is illogical but can feel correct to a depressed person. The negative thoughts cause negative feelings and the two reinforce each other. The book has exercises to help recognize and counteract such thoughts which improves mood. It takes work to do the exercises in the book, but they have been worth the effort.

One interesting thing thing the book mentions is that the author uses antidepressants in some situations on a temporary basis to help, but he views the real enduring treatment to be the change in thought patterns that come about from practicing the CBT method.

I admit that the book has some annoying self-help book aspects that will be familiar to people that have read others in the genre like testimonials and seemingly unrealistic descriptions of sessions with patients in which they easily have a eureka moment. I think the ideas and method outlined is worth all that though.

I don't mean to dissuade you from pursuing other medicines. I am not any kind of doctor. I just wanted to share something that has helped me.

 

[Outdated]

This is such a common and well known problem - seems it's well known by everyone except the average GP.

We are neurologically different. Physically different brain structure and in some cases also altered brain chemistry. Most drugs do not behave as advertised on us and and what's fine for NTs can trigger devastating life changing events in us. The past 4 years of my life have been a complete mess because a wanker of a doctor recommended I try SSRIs.

It's so well known by everyone except the general medical profession that there's even private companies that can genetically test us to see if we're able to take antidepressants and similar drugs. If you're autistic the result is usually No.

www.genesight.com

I'm currently pushing my government's Minister of Autism to stop doctors from handing them out like lollies at christmas. That's currently their very first port of call - looks like mental problems, let's put them on SSRIs. It's the SSRIs that trigger us in to becoming unable to function in regular society. Many of us never recover from that.

 

[Boogs]

I've had a depressive demeanour most of my life, and more on than off. I've tried a few different SSRI's and although not suffered some of the worst side effects, they've never helped, and mostly made things worse.

My conclusion was whatever causes my depression, is not related to serotonin re-uptake, and more likely it's my life experiences due to my condition and upbringing. That said, I have heard of some autistic people benefitting from anti-depressants, but I'd be inclined to agree with the above about it being best used for relatively short periods, and in parallel with other therapies - i.e. to help make the other therapies possible and/or to get over a hump.

 

[Rocco]

This is such a common and well known problem - seems it's well known by everyone except the average GP.

We are neurologically different. Physically different brain structure and in some cases also altered brain chemistry. Most drugs do not behave as advertised on us and and what's fine for NTs can trigger devastating life changing events in us. The past 4 years of my life have been a complete mess because a wanker of a doctor recommended I try SSRIs.

It's so well known by everyone except the general medical profession that there's even private companies that can genetically test us to see if we're able to take antidepressants and similar drugs. If you're autistic the result is usually No.

www.genesight.com

I'm currently pushing my government's Minister of Autism to stop doctors from handing them out like lollies at christmas. That's currently their very first port of call - looks like mental problems, let's put them on SSRIs. It's the SSRIs that trigger us in to becoming unable to function in regular society. Many of us never recover from that.

I wish I had known this in 2017! The medicines cost me just about everything in my life at that time. Back then I tried to get the doctors to listen but they just kept changing the meds until I finally refused medical attention and further treatment. That was the only thing that stopped the terrible consequences. I lost everything in my life but my car, coin collection, and paintings. People, jobs, marriage, home… all gone.

 

[Outdated]

I wish I had known this in 2017!

You and me both!

As it is the great majority of us only find out about it when it's way too late.

 

[Outdated]

That said, I have heard of some autistic people benefitting from anti-depressants, but I'd be inclined to agree with the above about it being best used for relatively short periods, and in parallel with other therapies - i.e. to help make the other therapies possible and/or to get over a hump.

I'd like to see doctors banned from prescribing them without doing proper testing first. They will be of value to some people but for many of us they cause many years of unbelievable hardship and unnecessary trauma.

"Do no harm" has taken a back seat to getting kickbacks from drug companies.

 

[Boogs]

I'd like to see doctors banned from prescribing them without doing proper testing first. They will be of value to some people but for many of us they cause many years of unbelievable hardship and unnecessary trauma.

"Do no harm" has taken a back seat to getting kickbacks from drug companies.

There's a built-in culture in modern healthcare of it being as much a commercial industry as anything else.
Lots of pressures on docs to be ever more efficient, ever more perfect, and ever more profitable to the industry.
Pill popping has been encouraged by the pressures put on doctors for a factory line process. The pharma industry also lobby to have regulations changed that encourage this sort of thing too.
Which is one of the major factors in the US's opiate epidemic, most doctors ended up actually forced to prescribe powerful painkillers at the patients request, at pain of impacting their career thanks to private companies meddling in regulations.
And if mental health resources are under resourced, what options do most doctors have but a prescription?

 

[Outdated]

The pharma industry also lobby to have regulations changed that encourage this sort of thing too.

That's a huge part of the problem, and it takes people like you and me standing up and counterlobbying to prevent it. Using ourselves as living evidence of harm caused.

The old boys club is slowly being broken down here and industry lobby groups no longer have as much sway as they used to. This is a good thing.

 

[Rodafina]

@Brian0787

I think that 13 years old was very young for your caregivers and doctor to give you SSRIS. I would not argue that this is never appropriate, but I think such medication for a young child can definitely cause problems over time and put someone in a difficult situation like yours. 22 years later and you are tied to the drug that doesn't even work that well anymore.

One thing that I learned with my experience with depression is that there are different causes for it. I took SSRIs a few times in my life for a year or two each time. I did not have any adverse side effects, but also did not experience any benefit in terms of treating depression.

I think the source of my depression was actually environmental factors and a withdrawal/shut down response to anxiety due to undiagnosed autism. I didn't need the chemicals in my brain altered - I needed understanding and coping skills.

I wonder if you have had the opportunity to really investigate how you experience depression while seeing a therapist/counselor/social worker to explore things like automatic negative thoughts, coping skills, and building supports. In some situations, these things can help reduce the need for medication.

 

[jsilver256]

I think that 13 years old was very young for your caregivers and doctor to give you SSRIS. I would not argue that this is never appropriate, but I think such medication for a young child can definitely cause problems over time and put someone in a difficult situation like yours.

I hate to say it, but I can see how the "zombiefied" state can be mistaken for effective changes in behavior in children - easier to handle.

We have seen these changes up close with several children, where their behavior was drastically altered post-SSRI, and wondered. As a general rule, we observed the children were much less active but their mood got more subdued, not improved.

 

[Boogs]

Something else to consider (and may not apply here) is sometimes doctors simply don't know what the best thing to do is, but given a situation where symptoms are causing their own harm, or a condition is steadily degrading, sometimes they have no other options but to try something that may have worked for (or at least helped) someone else.

An extreme example of this was described to me by my psychiatrist father a long time ago, talking about the use of Electro Convulsive Therapy (ECT) for some patients with severe mental illnesses. In those days (e.g. 60's, 70's) a few of his patients would not respond to any other treatments (which were far more limited in scope back then), and their symptoms were simply intolerable to them, they were pretty much constantly suffering some kind of trauma. The ECT, although no-one knew what the actual action was, and despite the side effects, gave some respite to some of these patients.

My father never liked having to recommend it for treatment, but in the end he also had to take responsibility for that patient, and if nothing else would help, he was left with a stark set of options. In many cases the patients themselves would willingly try anything that may help.

Of course, the other side is sometimes some doctors, being human, are just a bit rubbish!

 

[Peter Morrison]

There is a lot of agreement here regarding antidepressants. When we have extreme anxiety and depression, we run for help. The only solution becomes pills. Pills have their place, but they are not a guaranteed, lifelong solution. The bad aspect of pills is that you get the sensation that everything is fine, when in reality it isn't. I call it the false sense of security. I have had many different medications for panic attacks and general depression throughout my adult life. They were all awful. I have been taking Duloxetine for a few years, and since I would forget to take the pill for a few days or so, I would sense that I was harboring some heavy, depressive thoughts. The meds made me very "neutral" on all issues. I never had extreme joy, nor extreme sadness or anger. It didn't make me stupid, but it did make me "not care" about things that would normally get my attention as issues that require attention. My energy and drive dropped.

The real reason for my anxiety exists from a combination of factors. Being on meds prevented me from actualizing the real reasons for my emotional discomfort, something I never knew could be addressed. Whatever ASD does to me is something I must live with and manage as I see fit. That incorporates personal responsibility for my life and everything I do. I needed resolve - a way to be OK with those issues that were responsible for me feeling angry, disregarded, abused, confused, and sad. Whatever we deal with in life, we must face reality and make peace with it.

You have to face issues that might have contributed to these grossly negative emotional experiences. Late in life I understood my ASD. That helped me divide my issues into categories. That made things easier to understand. I couldn't go back and undo the damage, but I was not prevented from starting a healthier approach to myself. I had learned to "let go".

Many years ago, I found myself spending too much time on negative, unproductive thoughts. I forced myself to limit negativity to 1 hour per day - no more. When I found myself drifting into negativity, I would immediately switch focus to something pleasant and positive. It took a lot of practice. Now, I readily acknowledge when negativity is seeping in from myself or from the environment. Negativity is part of reality, but it can be cut away if you can find that resolve that puts it all into proper perspective. I can tolerate negativity to a certain point. Then, I need a strategy to get away from the negativity. Negativity produces frustration and anger. There are the precursors to a meltdown, however mild. I can't think and I can't concentrate when I have unfinished business roaming around in my head. That causes me to shut down because there is a hurricane in my head as I am trying to sort and separate issues of importance. Solution - stay away from the negative.

A lot of these psych-meds are little more than trial and error. If it works and you like it, congratulations. Your body, your choice. Our culture asks us to rely on experts, but I am a firm believer that there are no experts anywhere. There are people who know a lot, more than others, but experts don't exist. If you don't have ASD, you are never going to truly understand all the complexities that govern our feelings and behaviors. That is why this forum is like a life-raft for most of us. A physician may know the symptoms and treatments for ASD, but if you don't experience them yourself, then the only resource is a Google search. Our condition is more than what a pill can manage or cure. We need to take a very long, hard look at the world and ourselves. There is nothing wrong with us, but we are the odd one out. I invoke all resources available to find our way. Choose your crutches wisely.

 

[Brian0787]

Thank you all so much for sharing! I would like to reply to each one of you but each response has been extremely helpful! I wish my parents had not of put me on them but at the time I was getting into arguments with my parents and it became a back and forth type thing and that's when they took me to the Psychiatrist. I think they were just overwhelmed and didn't know what else to do. I wish the knowledge we have now about antidepressants was around then. I especially wish Psychiatrists and Doctors would take autism into account before prescribing antidepressants.

I am seeing a Christian counselor for therapy and alot of it has been sort of mindfulness based which hasn't been too much of help. I am sort of scared a little bit of the journey of coming off antidepressants after being on them for so many years. I have tried to stupidly stop taking Paxil "cold turkey" in the past thinking I could somehow power through the withdrawal effects but it was a big mistake.

Also thank you SaturnV for mentioning the book by David Burns "Feeling Good"! It's funny but I actually have the book. I read a little bit of it but didn't get very far. I am definitely going to be looking into getting some more therapy help as I transition off and praying things go ok. Thank you so much again to all of you! It's good to know I'm not alone in this struggle

 

[Shamar]

Hi All. This is my first post here. I really don't know where this subject belongs. I'm thinking maybe here but maybe it belongs somewhere else. Just to give a background but I have taken antidepressants since I was 13. In addition to my Autism Spectrum Disorder I was diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder, and Obsessive Compulusive Disorder by a Psychiatrist when I was 13. I was placed on an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) called Paxil (Paroxetine) and was on it for 22 years continuously.

Dosages varied from starting out on a 20 mg instant release pill to eventually growing to 60 mg instant release and then to a extended release pill. About a couple years ago it felt like Paxil "quit working". This apparently has been frequently reported for those who are on Antidpressants for a long period of time. I believe they call it the "Poop out" effect. I then switched to Prozac to get off Paxil (Paxil is horrible to get off due to withdrawal effects).

Prozac did not work very well for me with the side effects and I've tried some other antidepressants in the SSRI class (Lexapro, Zoloft). All had side effects that were intolerable (increased sweating, insomnia, stomach issues). I then tried some antidepressants on the SNRI (Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor) class (Cymbalta, Effexor) and those were intolerable due to side effects as well.

Does anyone else here struggle with taking antidepressants and sensitivity to side effects? I ended up returning to Paxil about a year ago because nothing else really worked. I did a Genetic test a couple months ago and found out that SNRI's are the most effective class for me. I talked to my Primary Care Doctor today and I am going to try to entirely get off antidepressants as they seem to be causing more side effects then benefits.

From the research I've done it seems like antidepressants are not always effective for those on the Autism Spectrum. Has anybody had similiar experiences with Antidepressants that would like to share? No issues if not either but just thought I would see if anyone had similar problems and issues Sorry this is so long!

During part of the year (mid October into January), I suffer from depression ranging from significant to severe. No, this is not Seasonal Affective Disorder, but a reaction to the increase in social activity during this time, and my inability to participate. I have found that St Johns Wort extract works well for me. Doesn't eliminate the depression, but reduces it significantly. This is only for only three months every year, so I don't know about long term continuous use.

 

[jsilver256]

I am seeing a Christian counselor for therapy and alot of it has been sort of mindfulness based which hasn't been too much of help.

Is this counselor specializing in ASD?

Therapy for NTs is not very effective on ASDs. I was kicked around therapists for over an year, my husband kept forcing me to go. I coincidentally got assigned to one specializing in ASD and that was what led to the diagnosis.

 

[Brian0787]

Is this counselor specializing in ASD?

Therapy for NTs is not very effective on ASDs. I was kicked around therapists for over an year, my husband kept forcing me to go. I coincidentally got assigned to one specializing in ASD and that was what led to the diagnosis.

Unfortunately, no. I appreciate you mentioning that I think I am definitely going to look into one who specializes with ASD. It would be helpful to see someone who specializes in it. I've mostly just had Christian counselors in the past and a couple regular therapists but they never specialized in ASD.