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is this offensive

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Aspergers_Aspie, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. HeroOfHyrule

    HeroOfHyrule Chicken Chaser

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    That sounds wildly unpleasant. lmao
     
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  2. Weirdo

    Weirdo Well-Known Member

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    The sterotypical Frenchman has a ring of onions around his neck.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Ezra

    Ezra Relax, it's just chaos.

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    I had no idea. Learn something new every day on the interweb. And I didn't know they drank beer, I thought it was always wine or champagne.
     
  4. Saphira

    Saphira Well-Known Member

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    I believe they may be drinking Stella.
     
  5. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    This trend of everyone finding every bloody little thing offensive is getting more than a bit old at this point.

    I tend to think that for some people (specifically, those who get loud about it on social media) they're not REALLY offended... they're just using it to show off and tell others how superior they are to whoever did/said the "offensive" thing.

    And besides, the group it's "targeting" might not even find it that way.

    I remember on a recent video I saw on Youtube (an older video actually) people were going on about "Geez, that's so racist and inconsiderate" to something that was... just a joke, and not one done in bad taste (as there absolutely is a difference). And this guy chimes in, with a comment like "Okay, just stop. I'm black and I thought it was hilarious. Stop telling me what to be offended by. Get a life, all of you!"

    I've had similar reactions to things like videos making jokes about LGBT people or the geek community or even autism. Sometimes, a joke really is just a joke. And plenty of times it really IS funny. Cant remember the last time I actually got offended by something like that. And when something does show up that IS vitriolic and nasty... well, just walk away. There's plenty of actual good videos and funny stuff to watch instead.
     
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  6. MeghanWithAnH

    MeghanWithAnH Well-Known Member

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    It depends a lot on how the stereotypes have been used historically, and whether they were used against a group that is still oppressed today. For example, there's nothing inherently wrong with eating watermelon, but so many racists over the past couple of centuries have used it to insult African Americans (which is a baffling insult in itself), that the stereotype became so strongly connected to racist views that even a silly use of it is still rightfully suspicious.

    In contrast, I don't know of any similar situation going on with the French, so there's much less danger of fairly neutral stereotypes being offensive. I suppose it could be annoying if someone was French and kept running into French people always being represented that way, but I'm not aware of any big ongoing anti-French discrimination that might take it past annoying into the realm of offensive.
     
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  7. NothingToSeeHere

    NothingToSeeHere Asexuowl V.I.P Member

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    I agree this is at the heart of a large amount of the outrage on social media; a combination of virtue signaling and people soothing their conscience over being privileged and not doing anything real to overcome inequality.

    The trend for getting offended over silly little things really undermines the aim to stop real discrimination.
     
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  8. Jumpback

    Jumpback Well-Known Member

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    I have bought and sold a couple old accordions and they were made in Italy.
     
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  9. Jumpback

    Jumpback Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it’s slightly offensive, but it isn’t going to actually have much affect on people’s views of the French

    I consider views of certain rural white Americans pushed in the US to be offensive, since the message is so powerful that people in the rest of the world actually openly talk about incest among these people and toothlessness and on and on. Like maybe there is some inbreeding due to rural communities, but other groups like European royalty and Jewish populations have a very long history of such things and no one targets them. And things like rape of underage minors by family members are far worse in minority communities than in majority communities.


    Like a goofy cartoon image is offensive, but it doesn’t matter so much if the view of French or Italians is not overwhelmingly negative. If people actually believed things like the US joke of the French being “surrender monkeys” due to WWI and WWII and this was just more piling on and more piling on and more piling on of how ridiculous the French are that would be one thing, but people don’t have a general negative image of the French like they do of poor white decendants of coal minors who live in a West Virginia.
     
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  10. Jumpback

    Jumpback Well-Known Member

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    The outrage has just ramped up and up, even with more and more tolerance.

    Even from the right, “Deliverance” is probably a hate film directed by a British guy showing rural white Americans to be ridiculous and evil, but we have since then had “Tucker & Dale vs Evil” where the heroes are West Virginia rednecks fighting against prejudices and misunderstandings and so on.
     
  11. Gerontius

    Gerontius Well-Known Member

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    So I like old music. You have to watch out because some of it is pretty racist... But have you ever heard of Polk Miller & the Old South Quartette? Polk was a Confederate veteran and the OSQ, at least two of them, were freedmen. (Their names weren't published because it was dangerous to doxx somebody back in the 1900s.)

    Anyway, in 1908-ish they got a contract with Thomas Edison to make phonograph records, which they did. In 1909 they made the first interracial record, "The Bonnie Blue Flag," a Confederate marching song. They did cut one record in 1910 that fits the discussion pretty well: it's called "Watermelon Party." Miller did not sing on that one, only the O.S.Q. (Miller may have been playing the guitar.) Racist slurs? yep. Black people & watermelons? yep. Actually racist? No, actually not. It's people having a really good time. Cancel culture would go too far by erasing them.

    I have that one on four-minute cylinder for my phonograph but the record is available on YouTube or the UCSB cylinder archive to listen for free.

    As far as the reason black people & watermelons became associated: it was cheap to grow them. They're really easy to grow, and they were considered slave food, like raccoons (which led to another racial slur.) Anyway, same goes with chicken: it's pretty easy to raise chickens and it used to be pretty easy to steal them too, out of an open hen house or out of a bush they would sleep in. People would incorporate bits of this into the old minstrel shows, which were packaging black life for white consumption even during the days of slavery (got to make everybody feel good about it--like Beyonce does with her feminist views, while her sweatshop laborers can't afford to live decently.)

    We are no better than people were back then, as a culture, and I say in some regards we may be worse, even if we have made great advancements in other areas of social life.

    The whole thing is pretty complex, which is why I turn, personally, to Catholicism. Love thy neighbor, and In Christ there is no Jew or Greek, male or female, slave or free is a lot easier to keep up with than the willful offensiveness of the MAGA crowd, and the ideological colonialism of the American left. Forget Right and Left, I wish we would go back to right and wrong.

    And for sure I wouldn't eat those onion rings.
     
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  12. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Kirk: "And that little man, Spock. What's with that? How could he be a Frenchman? He's not even bald!"
    Spock: "Indeed Captain, he should be bald."
    Kirk: "Make it so, Number One."
    Spock: "You're out of character, Captain. Commodore Roddenberry would be most displeased."
    Kirk: "I think you're right, Spock."
    Spock: "Think, Captain? Now I'm offended!"
    Kirk: "Never mind. Hey, I thought Vulcans cannot be offended. Get a grip, Leonard."
    Spock: "I just might do that, Bill."
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  13. GrownupGirl

    GrownupGirl Tempermental Artist

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    I've eaten a different brand similar to those onion rings, they are a basically sour cream and onion flavoured version of Cheetos Puffs, and I like them.

    The French stereotype isn't offensive because it's a white guy. It's only when it's a non-white person that it's offensive, because white people have never been oppressed, ever.* Like the Frito Bandito, who was a Mexican stereotype and angered many Mexican-Americans. I read that people in Mexico, however, really liked him. Go figure.:rolleyes:

    *Total sarcasm. Duh!
     
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  14. Alexej

    Alexej Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    It seems that the type of "johnny Frenchman" which is that of the man, on his bike, selling onions, wearing his beret; actually comes from the Breton farmers who travelled over to the UK and sold onions.

    Other French people do not understand why, in the UK, there is the stereotype of "Johnny Frenchman"
     
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  15. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Well, it wouldn't surprise me if Pepe Le Pew tried out for the lead part in those Jonny Cat commercials. Of course casting a skunk as a cat would have been most politically incorrect, right? Lots of stereotypes out there.

     
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  16. garnetflower13

    garnetflower13 Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    :D
     
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  17. stringer

    stringer Well-Known Member

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    This is very true, I think. It is liable to produce a kind of "offence fatigue," where ordinary, decent people are driven to a feeling of exasperation with "yet another damned whine from the 'easily offended' brigade."

    The accusation of something's "being offensive" should be reserved for things that really matter, I think, and should not be devalued to the point of meaninglessness by overuse.
     
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  18. Jumpback

    Jumpback Well-Known Member

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    There are lot of negative stereotypes of Italians in the US, from being gangsters to being to goofy commercials and cartoon characters for food from the past about things like this



    But the thing is that Italian mobsters actually tended to like gangster films and goofy, racist advertising probably did a lot to popularize a US interpretation of Italian food.

    Like Speedy Gonzalez and Slowpoke Rodriguez are now considered offensive characters, except Mexican immigrants tend to not be offended by them

    Kind of the same with fried chicken and African-Americans, African-Americans actually buy more chicken than other populations and Popeyes chicken sets up restaurants in black areas because they serve a spicy variant that tastes more like southern poor traditions, which is where black food preferences tended to emerge from

    Popeyes Sandwich Strikes a Chord for African-Americans

    Things between poor whites and poor blacks have always been kind of similar, it’s that people in power have reasons to turn them against each other. This SNL skit does a good job of showing this issue

     
  19. garnetflower13

    garnetflower13 Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I like that phrase, "Offense Fatigue." I am getting there quickly as people are jumping all over each other to see who is more politically "correct."
     
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  20. Jumpback

    Jumpback Well-Known Member

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    US history is very, very complicated. The whole blackface thing is completely misunderstood. Like Al Jolson was a Jewish northern liberal who stood up for blacks, and who was almost universally appreciated by black communities at the time. But then two things that caused the long dead KKK to be reformed was a Hollywood movie and Jewish factory owners employing sweatshop conditions in Atlanta and blaming and innocent black man for a rape and murder of a 14 year old white girl, because Jews had so much power to get their guy off.

    It’s very, very complicated, blacks actually really liked black face liberal Jew Al Jolson, but blacks and whites were united against mistreatement of Jewish factory owners against poor members of both groups

    White minstrel and “coon songs” of the 19th century were very racist but they also came from whites being stuck in a Victorian tradition where proper behavior was required and they could only get around this Victorian control of properness by dressing in black face

    In the super liberal era of just after WWI in Paris and Berlin, whites complained that these places imported less talented black musicians instead of allowing whites to gain employement due to being black made them more “authentic”

    So the solution ends up being, because people desire simple answers, some poor white peoole are at fault for everything
     
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