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Is there a proper reason to emote?

DavidS

Active Member
Alright, this one is gonna be kinda deep. I sought out my diagnosis because of relational problems, inability to emote when my girlfriend is stressed (I’d perform actions to make things better but I’ve no strong grasp of theory of mind yet), meltdowns and breakdowns in conflict, and other factors that point to ASD.

So, with diagnosis in hand WHY and WHAT prompts one to change and undergo therapy? I love my girlfriend, with all my heart, I want us to spend the rest of our lives together and I want to always do anything to make her happy. Is this the wrong reason to peel back the onion to try to be “normal”? She says if I want change I have to want it for myself or it is for the wrong reason, but I can’t wrap my brain around that.

Hypothetically, let’s say you were blind from birth and were given the opportunity through rigorous methods to at least see hazily, are you prompted because you want to see or because you want to experience the world in the same way those you love do as well?

What are y’all’s thoughts?
 
Nice that you are thinking about this. Maybe see it as a gas station stop. You see her at the gas station. Do you pass right by? Or do you stop and take a breather and connect. So wanting to connect at her level is the MO. And by asking her questions about her feelings, and what she needs is a great way to get there.

She also should reciprocate and ask you the same.
 
I can totally relate. However, she also has be open to some education on what autism is,...which most people do not understand. In fact, some education for the both of you so you both can have a more meaningful relationship and communication.

Autism is something that one is born with. The changes that occur within the brain start at the earliest of gestation of the fetus. It is a combination of abnormal neuronal migrational patterns, abnormal neuronal structure, abnormal neurotransmitter balance, and abnormal neuronal "pruning" that normally occurs before the age of 5 (the time when many parents seek help for their child). The difference between an autistic brain and a neurotypical brain is about the same as an apple vs. an orange. No matter how hard the apple tries, it will never be seen as an orange.

An autistic trying to be seen as neurotypical is called "masking". It is acting. It is fake. It is mentally exhausting. It often fails. Most neurotypicals will see right through it. The problem is that most neurotypicals have an intense need for "sameness" and if anything seems "different", their natural, instinctual response is to reject it. They cannot wrap their minds around it any more than we can understand their thought processes, emotional responses, body language, facial expressions, and so on. It is a set up for disaster if she is asking you to "mask" your true self so she can feel more comfortable.

I have been married to a wonderful woman,...35 years in July,...still, to this day,...no clue what she is thinking or how she will respond to anything I do or say. I, like many autistics, are lacking in that "theory of mind" or "cognitive empathy",...because of brain development,...not because I haven't learned how to do it or that I don't want to do it. However, I have long given up "walking on eggshells" around her trying my hardest to please her in every way possible. How could I? I literally don't have the tools to do it. I give her lots of affection (plenty of "emotional empathy"), I support her in every way, I am loyal, I am honest to a fault. I am a quiet person,...often hours without opening my mouth,...she reads and is quiet, as well. We really don't have idle "chit-chat",...if there is something important to say, we say it. When we meet after work, I give her a kiss, a long hug, and ask "How was your day?" A habit that allows her to vent when she needs to,...I generally don't have much to share about my day unless something unusual happened that she might find interesting. She has learned to not ask "How do you feel?" or "How would you feel if,...?" Those are questions I literally cannot answer,...that requires "theory of mind" and "cognitive empathy". She needs to know that when you do not give her the answer she wants,...you are NOT being evasive.

We have disagreements from time to time, but we can discuss things without raising our voice,...and we can agree to disagree. Neither of us has to win an argument. I have had one major "meltdown",...in retrospect, I was mentally exhausted leading up to it,...that should be a warning sign to most of us. Constant anxiety, stress, lack of sleep,...a perfect storm for the "meltdown". She has to know,...once triggered, you really don't have much control over it,...it's like an out-of-body experience,...scary to loose control like that. Afterward,...she has to know you are more embarrassed and ashamed than she was being mortified at witnessing it. Bottom line, you have to take care of yourself and do things that reduce your mental exhaustion.

I could go on and on here. Therapy can help, but it will only help if the therapist is well-versed in autistic-neurotypical relationships,...and mostly it will be for her to understand how to cope with your issues,...not the other way around.
 
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I can totally relate. However, she also has be open to some education on what autism is,...which most people do not understand. In fact, some education for the both of you so you both can have a more meaningful relationship and communication.

Autism is something that one is born with. The changes that occur within the brain start at the earliest of gestation of the fetus. It is a combination of abnormal neuronal migrational patterns, abnormal neuronal structure, abnormal neurotransmitter balance, and abnormal neuronal "pruning" that normally occurs before the age of 5 (the time when many parents seek help for their child). The difference between an autistic brain and a neurotypical brain is about the same as an apple vs. an orange. No matter how hard the apple tries, it will never be seen as an orange.

An autistic trying to be seen as neurotypical is called "masking". It is acting. It is fake. It is mentally exhausting. It often fails. Most neurotypicals will see right through it. The problem is that most neurotypicals have an intense need for "sameness" and if anything seems "different", their natural, instinctual response is to reject it. They cannot wrap their minds around it any more than we can understand their thought processes, emotional responses, body language, facial expressions, and so on. It is a set up for disaster if she is asking you to "mask" your true self so she can feel more comfortable.

I have been married to a wonderful woman,...35 years in July,...still, to this day,...no clue what she is thinking or how she will respond to anything I do or say. I, like many autistics, are lacking in that "theory of mind" or "cognitive empathy",...because of brain development,...not because I haven't learned how to do it or that I don't want to do it. However, I have long given up "walking on eggshells" around her trying my hardest to please her in every way possible. How could I? I literally don't have the tools to do it. I give her lots of affection (plenty of "emotional empathy"), I support her in every way, I am loyal, I am honest to a fault. I am a quiet person,...often hours without opening my mouth,...she reads and is quiet, as well. We really don't have idle "chit-chat",...if there is something important to say, we say it. When we meet after work, I give her a kiss, a long hug, and ask "How was your day?" A habit that allows her to vent when she needs to,...I generally don't have much to share about my day unless something unusual happened that she might find interesting. She has learned to not ask "How do you feel?" or "How would you feel if,...?" Those are questions I literally cannot answer,...that requires "theory of mind" and "cognitive empathy". She needs to know that when you do not give her the answer she wants,...you are NOT being evasive.

We have disagreements from time to time, but we can discuss things without raising our voice,...and we can agree to disagree. Neither of us has to win an argument. I have had one major "meltdown",...in retrospect, I was mentally exhausted leading up to it,...that should be a warning sign to most of us. Constant anxiety, stress, lack of sleep,...a perfect storm for the "meltdown". She has to know,...once triggered, you really don't have much control over it,...it's like an out-of-body experience,...scary to loose control like that. Afterward,...she has to know you are more embarrassed and ashamed than she was being mortified at witnessing it. Bottom line, you have to take care of yourself and do things that reduce your mental exhaustion.

I could go on and on here. Therapy can help, but it will only help if the therapist is well-versed in autistic-neurotypical relationships,...and mostly it will be for her to understand how to cope with your issues,...not the other way around.

That was so honest. Thank you for your honesty. That expressed things l feel but maybe to painful for me to put in words.

Sometimes you might know someone on the spectrum but they forget that you suffer too, and because you mask so well. Woman are very adept at this but it comes smashing down if we don't take care of ourselves as you succinctly detailed your exact thoughts, in turn, this helped me acknowledge my core aspie child who refuses to acknowledge anything is wrong.
 
I can totally relate. However, she also has be open to some education on what autism is,...which most people do not understand. In fact, some education for the both of you so you both can have a more meaningful relationship and communication.

Autism is something that one is born with. The changes that occur within the brain start at the earliest of gestation of the fetus. It is a combination of abnormal neuronal migrational patterns, abnormal neuronal structure, abnormal neurotransmitter balance, and abnormal neuronal "pruning" that normally occurs before the age of 5 (the time when many parents seek help for their child). The difference between an autistic brain and a neurotypical brain is about the same as an apple vs. an orange. No matter how hard the apple tries, it will never be seen as an orange.

An autistic trying to be seen as neurotypical is called "masking". It is acting. It is fake. It is mentally exhausting. It often fails. Most neurotypicals will see right through it. The problem is that most neurotypicals have an intense need for "sameness" and if anything seems "different", their natural, instinctual response is to reject it. They cannot wrap their minds around it any more than we can understand their thought processes, emotional responses, body language, facial expressions, and so on. It is a set up for disaster if she is asking you to "mask" your true self so she can feel more comfortable.

I have been married to a wonderful woman,...35 years in July,...still, to this day,...no clue what she is thinking or how she will respond to anything I do or say. I, like many autistics, are lacking in that "theory of mind" or "cognitive empathy",...because of brain development,...not because I haven't learned how to do it or that I don't want to do it. However, I have long given up "walking on eggshells" around her trying my hardest to please her in every way possible. How could I? I literally don't have the tools to do it. I give her lots of affection (plenty of "emotional empathy"), I support her in every way, I am loyal, I am honest to a fault. I am a quiet person,...often hours without opening my mouth,...she reads and is quiet, as well. We really don't have idle "chit-chat",...if there is something important to say, we say it. When we meet after work, I give her a kiss, a long hug, and ask "How was your day?" A habit that allows her to vent when she needs to,...I generally don't have much to share about my day unless something unusual happened that she might find interesting. She has learned to not ask "How do you feel?" or "How would you feel if,...?" Those are questions I literally cannot answer,...that requires "theory of mind" and "cognitive empathy". She needs to know that when you do not give her the answer she wants,...you are NOT being evasive.

We have disagreements from time to time, but we can discuss things without raising our voice,...and we can agree to disagree. Neither of us has to win an argument. I have had one major "meltdown",...in retrospect, I was mentally exhausted leading up to it,...that should be a warning sign to most of us. Constant anxiety, stress, lack of sleep,...a perfect storm for the "meltdown". She has to know,...once triggered, you really don't have much control over it,...it's like an out-of-body experience,...scary to loose control like that. Afterward,...she has to know you are more embarrassed and ashamed than she was being mortified at witnessing it. Bottom line, you have to take care of yourself and do things that reduce your mental exhaustion.

I could go on and on here. Therapy can help, but it will only help if the therapist is well-versed in autistic-neurotypical relationships,...and mostly it will be for her to understand how to cope with your issues,...not the other way around.
I want for her to understand this but I’m afraid she will claim I am hiding behind a diagnosis. We talked about autism extensively before I got tested but there’s been no time to sit together to talk about the next step. I don’t doubt her love or her zeal, but I want so desperately to understand her and equally be understood.
 
I want for her to understand this but I’m afraid she will claim I am hiding behind a diagnosis. We talked about autism extensively before I got tested but there’s been no time to sit together to talk about the next step. I don’t doubt her love or her zeal, but I want so desperately to understand her and equally be understood.

One thing you may need to consider is that she may never understand you. Why, because she isn't the same as you. But to trust in her and her unconditional feelings for you should really hit you on the head. So many of us don't have friends, jobs, real relationships because we *can't * get out of our head and our obsessive thoughts. And many of us don't even know we are stuck with obessive thoughts because we assume everyone thinks this way.

I think Woody Allen is completely normal with all his neurotic thoughts. I like his normal.
 
An autistic person might not be a satisfactory match for every woman, no matter how hard both of them try. That's something to remember, although I don't mean to be discouraging.
 
I want for her to understand this but I’m afraid she will claim I am hiding behind a diagnosis. We talked about autism extensively before I got tested but there’s been no time to sit together to talk about the next step. I don’t doubt her love or her zeal, but I want so desperately to understand her and equally be understood.
If it were your heart, your liver, your kidneys,...would she claim you were hiding behind a diagnosis? Autism is not a behavioral issue, you can see it on MRI scans. Its anatomical and functional, the behavior is just a symptom.
 
If it were your heart, your liver, your kidneys,...would she claim you were hiding behind a diagnosis? Autism is not a behavioral issue, you can see it on MRI scans. Its anatomical and functional, the behavior is just a symptom.
.


Good point. You both have to meet in the middle somehow, someway. If you cant do that, your relationship is doomed. And this pretty much applies to any type of relationship.
 
I would suggest couples therapy. No way to get her to believe it coming from you. How to say to her i have a different emotional matrix and non nuero typical thought patterns. The shrink is a comminication expert, so they act as a translator.
Someone tried to teach me recently that there was a difference between thoughts, feelings and emotions. It confused me. A counselor already will believe you on account of her hi dollar education
 
A relationship is reciprocal. Just as she needs to understand your needs, you need to understand hers. It is complex as neither can intuitively figure that out. So, you need to be considerate and do things that might not be intuitive, but the other needs. My wife knowing I have ASD helped her and my understanding of ASD helped me engage with her.

It is just something you need to do.
 
I'm wondering what each of us means when we say 'understand.' Maybe acceptance is the more valuable asset. That would come far more easily in a neuro-akin relationship than in a mixed one. Either way, we just naturally pick up on our mate's typical behaviors and are attuned to variations. If love lives with that mutual knowledge, then we could say we understand each other. But you could spend a very pleasant life together working towards understanding each other's pressures, motives and joys. So, if that's a requirement for moving forward at the beginning, you'd almost expect it to be a sticking point.

She says if I want change I have to want it for myself or it is for the wrong reason
It left me wondering if she's open to you not changing, or if you are. Speaking for myself, I tried every day of my life to change. Only here recently discovered why I had zero success. Others could be different of course. So I guess I'm not sure what you mean by 'change' either.
 
I recall you saying that there was a situation with your partner where she was committed to spending time on issues or activities that made her unavailable to you, and that your behaviour in expressing your difficulties with that caused a problem between you? So I guessed, perhaps wrongly, that you were mean to her in some way? And so now I am wondering if she is saying, autism isn't an excuse for unacceptable behaviours? I may have misunderstood what you previously meant, though.
 
I recall you saying that there was a situation with your partner where she was committed to spending time on issues or activities that made her unavailable to you, and that your behaviour in expressing your difficulties with that caused a problem between you? So I guessed, perhaps wrongly, that you were mean to her in some way? And so now I am wondering if she is saying, autism isn't an excuse for unacceptable behaviours? I may have misunderstood what you previously meant, though.
Exactly two months ago was the last time we made time to see each other, the following day I had a severe meltdown because she was busy and didn’t text me within our usually scheduled timeframe. Harsh words were said.

Two weeks later, we were in close proximity in a public setting, she was there for a meeting to plan the aforementioned issues. Our relationship is currently to date “secret” except for close family and friends although we are three weeks shy from being together for a full year . We spent maybe a total of 10 minutes mildly alone that day and she made no effort through words or actions to show or say that she loved me. This meltdown was even more severe and extreme.

If I tell her these are reactive behaviors I fear she’ll call me accusatory and that I’m just trying to get what I want. She now feels uncomfortable at the thought of us seeing each other.

It’s a long distance relationship, and yesterday she was in town, because of this same issue/work, never sent a text or registered I was alive. I had to meet a mutual acquaintance of ours yesterday who himself is involved with said issues. She was close by ensconced in conversation with other mutual people. There in the middle of San Antonio besides the Alamo itself she walked the plaza so close that I could have spoken and she would have heard. I got up and made my way home, I think yesterday registers officially as my first time getting drunk. I love her and I don’t want or try to be angry with her but all the buttons get pressed like a professional burglar at a vault safe, and when I describe it it comes across like I’m just trying to get my way.
 
It’s a long distance relationship, and yesterday she was in town, because of this same issue/work, never sent a text or registered I was alive. I had to meet a mutual acquaintance of ours yesterday who himself is involved with said issues. She was close by ensconced in conversation with other mutual people. There in the middle of San Antonio besides the Alamo itself she walked the plaza so close that I could have spoken and she would have heard.

Do I understand correctly that she ignored your close presence and did not acknowledge you at all?
To be honest, if that happened to me I would react emotionally too. That would feel like high-tier rejection to me.
 
Do I understand correctly that she ignored your close presence and did not acknowledge you at all?
To be honest, if that happened to me I would react emotionally too. That would feel like high-tier rejection to me.
No not rejection, there would have be complicated matters with the people she was in company with if she had approached me. I That knowledge exists in my head but it doesn’t register in my heart.

It would have been even worse probably if I had approached or announced myself.
 
No not rejection, there would have be complicated matters with the people she was in company with if she had approached me. I That knowledge exists in my head but it doesn’t register in my heart.

It would have been even worse probably if I had approached or announced myself.

Ah yes, now I remember you aren't completely public with your relationship. Apart from that situation, she did not get into contact with you either, though - completely understandable you'd feel hurt. It seems like a really complicated situation.
 
Ah yes, now I remember you aren't completely public with your relationship. Apart from that situation, she did not get into contact with you either, though - completely understandable you'd feel hurt. It seems like a really complicated situation.
At 2:39 in the morning yesterday was when last messaged me, she mentioned she was traveling up here so it wasn’t unannounced. I then told her when and where I’d be so I wouldn’t spring up out of the blue.
 
Oh david. My heart aches for you. For the hangover, bisquits n gravy tend to be gentle, also immerse yourself in water if you can, or take several showers if at all possible, the body can absorb some water, and its soothing. Also power napping is highly effective, give yourself an hour, set a pleasant wake up alarm. I really like vitamin water xxx the pomegranite one. Take no pill vitamins.

I have not been a secret lover in many years, tho i remember it with fondness and bitter regret but the pain is all mostly scarred over. I have the old man's cynicism on romance, these , days in general.

I me mine is totally diferent than you and yours, however @ simetra is wise and perceptive in such matters and should be carefully listened too, you will gain greatly of her counsel...

My own secret lover was delightful and glorious and high drama. High society too, all so long ago. We had a message drop, i insisted. There was this bench in a park, we left notes for eachother underneath a rock. And frollicked in the moonlight. And in parked cars, and once at a construction site, in the rain

of course it all ended in tears. Im a semi-retired man whore and a slut though, so the tradgedy was pretty predictable. If i had a dollar for everytime i ...oh wait i do, never mind.

When my last dalliance learned about my tastes( i provided her with my clothing sizes, of course, esp shoes, god help me i love new kicks)
She started to give me gifts, which i totally approve of, *sighs* she cast me aside like a soiled kleenex, eventually.

Some of the ladies totally do that, they devise a situatution where you are virtually guaranteed to fail a totally impossible test, and then blame you for not paying close enough attention to when the rules changed, or claiming that you werent listening to them(this means you dont care) all without any notice whatsoever. Its tragic.

Respectfully i would also suggest you learn of the word "gaslighting" it will take a special person to teach you of it, but its good to learn about.

Best wishes
 
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