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Featured Is psychiatry and neurology being 2 separate disciplines good?

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by BrokenBoy, Aug 2, 2020 at 6:27 AM.

  1. BrokenBoy

    BrokenBoy 戯言使い(Nonsense User)

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    Day after day the causes of psychiatric diseases become less illusive as discoveries and theories and found. However some people notice possible neurological causes and start to question whether certain psychiatric conditions or all of them are actually neurological in nature. This type of debate tends to surround ASD especially. Wikipedia seems to list ASD as both for some reason.

    Do you think this separation of psychiatry and neurology is meaningful or arbitrary? Do you think Autism and other mental illnesses are actually neurological brain diseases?
     
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  2. Gerontius

    Gerontius Active Member

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    Autism affects so much of our lives and personalities, how can we say it's not a whole-body thing? I know our brains are a little differently shaped but literally everything about us is different as well.
     
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  3. menander

    menander Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I have a DD which was misconstrued as mental. I cannot even begin to tell you how catastrophic that was. I could tell you a drop of water compared to the ocean of how this changed the course of all my life, my thoughts, the way people treated me....and that this happens to countless others makes my head spin.

    I have lost all respect for psychiatry. It is just a dumping ground for ailments that are socially problematic or don't yet have a name. Or even people who are on the wrong political side. Drug people into oblivion if they are problems. The lucky ones keep fighting for a physical cause and have the means or loved ones to help them. It's a powerful nightmare.
     
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  4. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I put No, because I think they need to work together and get less territorial. That's probably true of many areas where there is a divide that disadvantages the people affected. For example, I went to a symposium about Trans experience and issues, and there was a big divide between social and medical approaches, medical research all about biological issues and transitioning physically, and social approaches around, who is the person, how do they see themselves in relation to gender, and what may they want or need around that?

    Similarly with autism approaches and research, there's the full on scientific research where neurology is often most represented, and then there's a range of pseudo science approaches that subject people to dodgy treatments on poor evidence, and also a lot of what appears to be psychological therapies used to treat people with autism without any understanding of their autism or of how neurological difference may affect the effectiveness of the therapy approach being used.

    Talk to each other, people!
     
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  5. SDRSpark

    SDRSpark Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    In my opinion and experience, psychiatry that doesn't take neurology into account does more harm than good. Treatments don't work, or worse, leading to harm and frustration. You can't think your way out of your neurology - you have to work WITH it, and you can't do that if you don't understand and acknowledge it.
     
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  6. clg114

    clg114 Still crazy, after all these years. Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    The way that I understand it, autism is a neurological disorder and can not be cured. You do not develop autism over time, you are born with it. On the other hand, psychological disorders can be treated and sometimes cured. Psychological disorders are acquired over time. However, I am not a expert and would like to see comments this subject.
     
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  7. ASD_Geek

    ASD_Geek Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I was initially hesitant to answer the poll because I wasn't sure how to phrase what I was thinking. clg114's post pretty much sums up what I was trying to unravel in my brain. While people with autism can learn to adapt and camouflage ourselves, there is no cure.
     
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  8. HeroOfHyrule

    HeroOfHyrule Chicken Chaser

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    I don't think them being separated is a great thing, especially regarding ASD. I also don't think psychiatry is a sham, but I do think neurology and psychiatry should be very close-knit when possible.

    It has always confused me how certain disorders can just be diagnosed with no actual medical testing. Just talking to someone, being observed, and filling out forms. That's how autism is diagnosed, at least where I live, and it doesn't surprise me a lot of people are undiagnosed or misdiagnosed.

    I understand that with a lot of disorders there aren't any specific genetic or neurological changes they've pinpointed and could use for diagnosis, but the fact there's no testing like that for such a neurological issue like autism is weird, and with the information we do have makes me feel that testing like that would at least make diagnosing someone with something like ASD more concrete.
     
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  9. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

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    If it's more appropriate for a neurologist to treat someone then they should be referred to one. If it's more important for a psychiatrist to treat someone then they should be referred to one.

    But honestly, I don't know exactly what a neurologist does. I went to one for an EEG when I was a kid, but I still can't properly imagine what they generally do all day. I'm sure psychiatrists are busy enough without having to give people EEGs. :eek:
     
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  10. BrokenBoy

    BrokenBoy 戯言使い(Nonsense User)

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  11. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

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    Though there is overlap [firmware?], it is analogous to software vs. hardware.
    Autism [sans significant co-morbids] is neither a mental illness nor a brain disease/injury. It is a viable, alternative neurology.

    We are more susceptible to a particular type of brain injury as exhibited in ASD2/3s, but that is a distinct and separate event.
     
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  12. BrokenBoy

    BrokenBoy 戯言使い(Nonsense User)

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    I found an article talking about brain scans being used to discover brain differences with PTSD and people who don't have it. It isn't used to dx it tho.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2019-04-brain-scans-ptsd.amp
     
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  13. Jumpback

    Jumpback Well-Known Member

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    Around about 12-15 years ago I tried to get into grad school for neurology because I was interested in how imaging techniques were bringing the two together. Just another thing sexual assault issues hurt me with since I failed classes the quarter first event happened
     
  14. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

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    I don't understand that sentence.
     
  15. Ezra

    Ezra Relax, it's just chaos.

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    Your best option if it is available is a neuropsychologist.
     
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  16. Ella Spell

    Ella Spell Something

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    I was tested for ASD by a Neuropsychologist. Autism is a developmental disorder and not a mental illness, so it doesn't require evaluation or treatment by a psychiatrist unless the co-morbid conditions are related to mental illness.

    For ADHD I was tested by a Neuropsychologist, a regular Psychologist, a Neuropsychiatrist, and a Psychometrist. The Neuropsychiatrist didn't seem different to any regular psychiatrist I'd seen in the past, but the Neuropsychologist was quite unique.
     
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  17. SusanLR

    SusanLR Well-Known Member

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    If you get down to the basic causes of both mental illness as it is called and neuropsychology or
    even neurology, I find there is almost always a physical cause for both.
    I think mental illness is an old term coined for the effects that a biological/physical problem creates.
    Take many of the terms used for mental illness and you will see it has now been proven
    through MRI, imaging technology, synapse and hormonal malfunctions make what we think of as
    mental illnesses. And these malfunctions stem from the brain, so I would term it neuroscience.
    A few examples:

    Schizophrenia - genetic and caused from too much dopamine in the brain. Antipsychotics used to
    treat are dopaminergic antagonists.
    But, the outward effect is called a mental illness.

    Unipolar and Bipolar depressions - multiple brain chemistry plays a role in these.
    Seratonin. Too much or too little. When they alternate between too high and too low it's called manic or Bipolar depression. Too little and it's unipolar endogenous depression. Also norepinephrine and cortisol
    are involved which comes from glands on kidneys that is triggered by brain signals.

    Anxiety disorders and panic attacks - Adreneline and cortisol over production create the sensations experienced with these. Hyperventilation or overly anxious states can trigger the hormones, but,
    so can the brain without the person doing anything consciously.

    ASD - Genetic and neurological brain hard wiring from birth causing multiple issues.
    Not all the same.

    Psycopathy - Areas of the brain do not fire properly especially in the pre-frontal
    areas where affective empathy occurs. Their brains also are shaped differently in the cortex
    region esp.
    Rule of thumb: Psychopaths are born, Sociopaths are made from life's experiences.

    But, would any of these be called neurological? ASD, yes.
    The other examples people call mental illness even if they are physically produced.

    Neurological and bodily changes can result from reactive events such as PTSD, grief,
    and reactive causes.


    Most personality disorders are just that...personality that is Atypical.
    Is that neurological or mental? Or just as it implies, personality?
    Most all of what is termed mental illness has neurological basis.
    Yet it isn't neurologists that treat them.

    The question was asked what do neurologists do?
    Their area is mostly confined to brain and nervous system disorders that
    affect the body, such as Parkinson's, MS, palsy, Muscular dystrophy and Alzheimer's, brain
    tumors, brain injuries.
    And they make a lot of money.
     
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