Is Asperger's a learning disability? Yes or no?

[Mr Allen]

Various sources say it is, including the local Autism centre, yet the local Social services say it isn't, therefore they denied me the right to go on their employment course because according to them I don't have a learning disability.

Would these people please make their minds up? I hate this being stuck in "Limbo" applying for jobs in the NT world, when by rights I should be applying for Aspie centric positions, even though I refuse on principle to work for £2 a day in some "disabled specific" job in a Remploy Factory or wherever, I deserve better than that IMO.

 

[Judge]

Good question. Personally I don't think anyone can conditionally label it as such, one way or another. That it depends on the individual, along with any comorbid conditions they may have. Apart from varying traits and behaviors, we experience them at different amplitudes.

So to claim ASD is inherently a "learning disorder" seems a bit too broad IMO.

As for what inept government bureaucracies decide (or don't) ...who knows?

 

[Bolletje]

In my opinion, no. It's quite possible to have both autism and a comirbid learning disorder, but the one doesn't automatically lead to the other.
I certainly wouldn't classify myself as having a learning disorder.

 

[Sabrina]

I think yes and no, depending of what you are learning. For example, for me, learning languages is easy, learning to cook, not so much.

 

[Crossbreed]

It is a learning disability for social skills across the spectrum. Being a pervasive development disorder means that one fails to develop by NT standards. If one develops to the equivalent of a stereotypical 16yo, that shortfall is less pronounced. If one peaks at about 8yo (like my son), they will be verbal with obvious cognitive deficits. If one peaks at 18mos. they will be non-verbal with severe cognitive deficits.

(That isn't to say that all non-verbals are infantile, but that is the case for my daughter.)

 

[Mia]

No it's not a learning disability. I've learned social skills. I learn in a different way considering conventional teaching methods. Sometimes I'm faster that most people depending on what it is, sometimes I'm slower and have to doggedly pick my way through. If it's a subject I understand at some level, then I can make connections pretty easily and skim, if it's something I literally know nothing about, then I have to do the background work and then read to comprehend, which takes some time. Have no difficulty learning literally anything, if I decide to.

 

[Bolletje]

No it's not a learning disability. I've learned social skills. I learn in a different way considering conventional teaching methods. Sometimes I'm faster that most people depending on what it is, sometimes I'm slower and have to doggedly pick my way through. If it's a subject I understand at some level, then I can make connections pretty easily and skim, if it's something I literally know nothing about, then I have to do the background work and then read it to understand. Have no difficulty learning literally anything, if I decide to.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Southern Discomfort]

It point blank isn't a learning disability. That's the fact. Anyone who says differently doesn't know what they're talking about.

People can describe it in a way that sounds like a learning disability but the fact of the matter is that it isn't one.

Autism lives in a very complicated area, a limbo land if you will. It isn't a learning disability and it isn't a mental illness. For years it has been the case of 'passing the buck', learning disabilities services wouldn't help people with autism because it's not a LD, mental health services wouldn't help because it's not a mental health problem. Finally though it seems that the mental health services have taken people with autism aboard because someone needed to.

 

[Momo]

I think it should be considered a learning disorder, as it can affect the way people learn and so should be treated as such.

 

[Crossbreed]

I've learned social skills.

I've certainly learned a few of the rules, but I'm still not agile/fluent/intuitive when I am in uncharted waters.

Lorna Wing said that social [ineptitude?] was the one shared trait across the whole spectrum.

 

[Mia]

I've certainly learned a few of the rules, but I'm still not agile/fluent/intuitive when I am in uncharted waters.

Lorna Wing said that social [ineptitude?] was the one shared trait across the whole spectrum.

I've seen that indicated, and perhaps it is the case with some. Although many Aspie females are undiagnosed and 'pass' in regular N/T society. Placed in a convent boarding school and watched every moment for any infraction. I learned social skills by force, correction, coercion, a kind of crude ABA.
In the N/T world you would think I was a sort of quiet or shy N/T and would be unable to tell that I'm on the spectrum. Unless of course you followed me home at the end of the day. Adult females on the spectrum regularly go unnoticed in the scientific world. There are few studies related to them. In fact there's a school of scientific thought, that postulates that there is no such thing as a female with autism. That in order to have autism, we must have male brains.

 

[Maelstrom]

They are lying...and they know it my human services lady said endlessly they had no money...apparently they are under pressure to not give much help?

Of course there are many different types of aspie and auti things that may or may not hurt in a job situation.
My dyslexia and other things finally got me a A1 tax credit rating...but I had to push a long time for even that signed letter.
And that one didn't require any cost to them...oddly they pushed therapy hard maybe they receive money somehow for that???
I had already done stupid Dyslexia therapy it is totally dumb and useless nonsense! so I said no and she didn't want to help me at all after that.

 

[Tyrantus1212]

Asperger's is not a disability, despite what some people might say. I've learned that from the wonderful folks in this very community when I was still struggling to understand what Asperger's really is. My psychologist first used that term - "disability" - to describe the disorder, and I mentioned that in the chatroom. I feel like the usage of this term has offended some of the members here and I feel pretty bad about that. I gained quite a few useful insights on the disorder that day, and so the next time I visited him I told him that "disability" was the wrong word and may come off as offensive to someone with Asperger's. Despite the fact that he's a psychologist, I would definitely trust the opinion of someone who has Asperger's more. After hearing me out he agreed with this and started using a better term - "social liability". I really want to thank the wonderful folks on here for setting me (and him, of course) straight.

In my personal experience, I may struggle to understand some things due to being literal and having poor communication skills, but once I learn something, it clicks right there in my mind. I've been an A student most of my life and am able to apply what I've learned in school to the real world. In fact, most Aspies have an above-average IQ. As for being a social liability, I think that's a very fitting term. I struggle with social and communication skills to this very day and it creates liabilities for me in terms of my relationships with NT's.

 

[Suzanne]

In my opinion no too, because to have a learning disability, means an ongoing struggle.

I feel sure that there is confusion between learning disablity and learning social cues.

I have been told that I am "actually intelligent" which shows that they had preconceived ideas about me, due to my lack of social understanding. I admit, I used to feel complimented to be told I am intelligent, but it suddenly occurred to me, that it is an insult, because one does just not go around saying: you are quite intelligent, aren't you?

Lets be realistic here, Rick. "professionals" get confused with aspergers and autism and so, just lump them together, so if they get confused over that simple appreciation, it is hardly surprising they cannot make up their mind on other things, related to aspergers.

Just because a centre is for autistic people, does not make them experts, because they are NT's who have their own idea about us.

One very discerning NT said to me: Aspies are the best for diagnosing themselves, because they get passionate about an obsession and thus, can out do the therapist, who has a list of invisible boxes that they tick and so, no room for indivdual behaviours and environmental issues.

I wonder if you can veer away for aspergers and pick on something more concrete that you have an issue with? As an example: I am hoping to be formally diagnosed with severe social anxiety, which it would take a complete embicle to actually say I have not got its, since even my dr was in agreement and so, if during the session of questions being asked, it make come around to aspergers.

Yes, it makes me fume too.

 

[WildCat]

By itself? No. Anyone who says otherwise really has no clue what they're talking about. Even the fancy social skills that don't come naturally to us are still learned through intellect, and the trade-offs sometimes more than make up for it. I don't think I need to elaborate on that with all the skilled people on here making careers out of their interests...

I know that ASD can come with other co-morbid conditions that can make life more difficult, and that can skew the general opinion for worse, but in that case shouldn't the extra stuff be addressed first and treated separate? Do people seriously think that ASD is the root cause of all the other problems and not dig deeper than that?

 

[Maelstrom]

In my opinion no too, because to have a learning disability, means an ongoing struggle.

I feel sure that there is confusion between learning disablity and learning social cues.

I have been told that I am "actually intelligent" which shows that they had preconceived ideas about me, due to my lack of social understanding. I admit, I used to feel complimented to be told I am intelligent, but it suddenly occurred to me, that it is an insult, because one does just not go around saying: you are quite intelligent, aren't you?

Lets be realistic here, Rick. "professionals" get confused with aspergers and autism and so, just lump them together, so if they get confused over that simple appreciation, it is hardly surprising they cannot make up their mind on other things, related to aspergers.

Just because a centre is for autistic people, does not make them experts, because they are NT's who have their own idea about us.

One very discerning NT said to me: Aspies are the best for diagnosing themselves, because they get passionate about an obsession and thus, can out do the therapist, who has a list of invisible boxes that they tick and so, no room for indivdual behaviours and environmental issues.

I wonder if you can veer away for aspergers and pick on something more concrete that you have an issue with? As an example: I am hoping to be formally diagnosed with severe social anxiety, which it would take a complete embicle to actually say I have not got its, since even my dr was in agreement and so, if during the session of questions being asked, it make come around to aspergers.

Yes, it makes me fume too.

Yes it is a insult ...I get that too because I talk a little slow with my autism time delay on hearing stuff (I sound a little like a California pot smoking surfer which I actually can not hear my self.)
So anyways they like to assume I a a little retarded their faces light up with shock when I talk about complex subjects that they don't understand....it tips thei universe out of balance...they are like "WHAT! how can the socially lame retard be smarter than me...that is not possible?...
Then they make those catty Oh! you are smart remarkes!"
To which I could say back "Oh! sorry you look smart and are actually dumb!"......but I don't because they would hate me endlessly and try to destroy me even more than they already do!

Mostly it is better to ignore the NTs and keep doing ones thing the best one can....you can't please everyone!

I do not accept any social status positions they they try to force on me...this makes some quite angry because it hurts their pride to be passed up by me... but that is not my problem I can sort their heads for them.

I just keep crunching through their world of illusions either they give them up or flee eventually.
What choice do I have...I am not going to pretend I am Buba the local potted plant just to please them?
I doubt I could even pull that off if I tried?
You can't give into social Bullies...they never play nice no matter what you do!

 

[Ylva]

It's a disability. "Social liability" is way more offensive to me. Being disabled is not wrong, but being a liability means being unwanted and there is no way I will be defined as that.

Is it a learning disability? It could be. It has not been classified as such, and yes we can learn, but here's the thing. There are dyslexic bookworms. There are dyscalculics who take math and logic courses and don't fail miserably. There are ways to teach learning disabled people the thing they are struggling to learn. I think like aspergers, learning disabilities mainly follow the social model; the problem is with the teaching methods, not with the person whose brain doesn't do the thing the teacher wants it to do at the cues the teacher wants it to respond to.

 

[Mr Allen]

I would also say no, for the sheer fact that from the age of 14 and a bit, up to about 5 years ago, I learned Martial Arts, trained twice a week at a local Leisure Centre, and got to blue belt before I had to retire due to a back injury.

Also, about 15 years ago I taught myself basic HTML from books, and also MS Visual Basic from a book, and then I went on a part time course at local Uni.

 

[fuzz]

I agree the idea of being thought of as a liability is quite offensive to me, as it's a judgement others would be making about me and my worth.

But...am I liable to make social mistakes? You betcha!

Back to the original question. For me Aspergers is not something I'd see as a learning disability, simply because it's not one of the listed symptoms.

I do struggle with learning cooking, but that's a result of anxiety about timings, worrying about how bad it might go, and getting distracted. It's not about it being too complicated a task for me.

 

[Crossbreed]

But...am I liable to make social mistakes? You betcha!

That is the shared definition of autism on the spectrum, that we lack the innate social intuition found in NTs. It doesn't mean that we are less valuable as people, it is just the loss/absence/diminishing of an otherwise common ability.

Healthy people see in color. If one does not, they are color blind. Just as blindness can be experienced in degrees, so can autism. Some of us cope with (and transcend) that loss. Some of us do not (or cannot).